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Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

NE over BU, over Brandeis, over even BC????
You clearly did not go to school in the Boston-Cambridge area and have not tracked these schools over time.

Who the F would choose Brandeis or BC for CS/Engineering?
WTF???

Who would choose Brandeis over Northeastern for anything.

More people prefer Northeastern over BU these days.

You are a clueless idiot.

Well, US News has BU and BC ranked ahead of NE, and Brandeis tied with NE, so I maybe wouldn’t be so quick to throw around the phrase “clueless idiot.” Dp, btw.

What part of CS/Engineering don't you understand.

BC doesn't even have a decent engineering department. They just started something.
Brandis is pretty behind.

More people prefer Northeastern over the campuless BU these days.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

NE over BU, over Brandeis, over even BC????
You clearly did not go to school in the Boston-Cambridge area and have not tracked these schools over time.

Who the F would choose Brandeis or BC for CS/Engineering?
WTF???

Who would choose Brandeis over Northeastern for anything.

More people prefer Northeastern over BU these days.

You are a clueless idiot.

Well, US News has BU and BC ranked ahead of NE, and Brandeis tied with NE, so I maybe wouldn’t be so quick to throw around the phrase “clueless idiot.” Dp, btw.

Have you experienced Delaware? If you don't get in immediately you wait without word until they get around to letting you know.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

NE over BU, over Brandeis, over even BC????
You clearly did not go to school in the Boston-Cambridge area and have not tracked these schools over time.

Who the F would choose Brandeis or BC for CS/Engineering?
WTF???

Who would choose Brandeis over Northeastern for anything.

More people prefer Northeastern over BU these days.

You are a clueless idiot.

I have to agree. The more OP adds, the less OP adds. OP, it is time for you to move on, for your DC's sake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

NE over BU, over Brandeis, over even BC????
You clearly did not go to school in the Boston-Cambridge area and have not tracked these schools over time.

Who the F would choose Brandeis or BC for CS/Engineering?
WTF???

Who would choose Brandeis over Northeastern for anything.

More people prefer Northeastern over BU these days.

You are a clueless idiot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

NE over BU, over Brandeis, over even BC????
You clearly did not go to school in the Boston-Cambridge area and have not tracked these schools over time.

I know several former students from the Boston area, and they would agree with PP. It depends where you work, and in what professional circles you travel - that is where it becomes obvious.

Anonymous wrote:The new President of NE is so pathetic - total business-minded approach with no consideration of what is good for students.

NE will remain a nothing burger school - even if it games the system to end up with a 99% yield rate.

It is such a joke! For anyone who knows the Boston schools well, NE was that "er what er where?" university that somehow tried to share in the afterglow of Harvard, MIT and BU.

Northeastern is the blueprint for many other schools' expansions and product development, which is just how and what it is in current time. BU and Northeastern are completely different, especially in the last decade. MIT and Harvard are also very different. There are many more students applying to more schools, each year, due to Common App and other considerations. Covid 2020 deferrals are still affecting current applicants. If you thought it was hard to get into college 2-3 decades ago, it is now an entirely different experience.

You created a record five Northeastern threads in two days. Your rage is misplaced.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

NE over BU, over Brandeis, over even BC????
You clearly did not go to school in the Boston-Cambridge area and have not tracked these schools over time.

The new President of NE is so pathetic - total business-minded approach with no consideration of what is good for students.

NE will remain a nothing burger school - even if it games the system to end up with a 99% yield rate.

It is such a joke! For anyone who knows the Boston schools well, NE was that "er what er where?" university that somehow tried to share in the afterglow of Harvard, MIT and BU.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

MIT kids don't really respect Harvard kids - or, I suppose they don't think of them, at all.

Anonymous wrote:Heads up to any parents of Juniors. First, they send admissions letters early and by "accident". Now today then send an email that they will be trickling out admissions decisions in "waves over the upcoming weeks". Jerks.

Lame of them

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

Certainly in the Boston area, I would choose MIT first then Harvard,
Northeastern 3rd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

But with a tremendous business plan, that is serving both sides (accepted applicants and the school) better than any infrastructure change. So?

On top of that, some may say acquiring several properties, taking them over and completely restructuring them is exactly an infrastructure change. An impressive one, at that. So, you can't discount that.

You seem illogically offended OP, it is time to let it go - for your kid's sake. Don't give your kid the idea that they are not good enough for you, which is what you are doing here.

Also, slow down in tech? You (!!!) would have to tell the applicants not to go into tech, I suppose? Do you really think you can control everything, OP? Or nothing? Which one is it - because this hangup of yours is too much.

LOL Tech is the last field you need to worry about.

If I were to choose CS or Engineering, and I could not get into MIT (so few can, but so few discuss it - funny!) - then I would try for Northeastern.

There are so many schools better than Northeastern

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm sorry that out of the over 97,000 applications, your child did not get into the Boston campus. It's been a tough application year for many kids. But you need to let go of your anger at NEU. There is a right college for every kid, yours will find theirs

BTW this is the OP. I have only posted once on this thread; unsure where your assumption is coming from. My kid will be attending another school on a scholarship. As with many other people on this thread, I find NEU admissions practices shady. Perhaps I overexaggerated on the title a bit but hope it is helpful for parents of kids just starting this process.

+1

Totally agree. You are posting to help others understand this. IMO, their admission practices just demonstrate how they will treat you once you say "yes". If it's the school for you and this doesn't bother you, then go ahead and say yes, matriculate and enjoy. Otherwise, OP's comments may help someone else's kid from falling in love with a school that is not the right fit for them.

Northeastern is not a small LAC - if you need hand holding you may not be the type to want to go to school in the city, which is fine, just know what kind of school you are applying to.

Even if you want a mid size school in the city, just know they have grown from 12K undergrad to over 20K in a decade, without much infrastructure changes.

The only schools that have not "grown" are smaller LACs, which is why some people choose to apply to them.