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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

How about they get to the root of it and stop prioritizing athletes in admissions? Right.

Is the recruitment of athletes even at SLACs -- a relatively new thing in the life of these schools

[What? It's not a new thing for SLACs to recruit athletes. That's been around forever.]

-- a strategy to game the rankings?

[SLACs do not need to "game the rankings". They are what Jeff Seligo calls "sellers". They are selective. That's what the S in SLAC stands for.]

It def seems like the athlete/non-athlete divide has gotten much bigger at many SLACs, which seems really antithetical to their purported missions. It's too bad.

[Athleticism is not antithetical to the mission of any college. It's too bad you're still bitter because you were always picked last for grade school kickball.]

lol, I absolutely was picked last for grade school kickball, though I don't feel especially bitter about it. It's certainly possible that bc I wasn't targeted for athletic recruitment I missed an entire process folding around me. But it sure does feel like there are fewer walk-ons than there used to be, and that the process for/extent of athletic recruitment at small liberal arts colleges has shifted significantly in recent decades (My kid was a d3 athletic recruit, and I was surprised by the process). To be clear, I didn't mean athleticism was antithetical to the mission of colleges -- heck, "mind and body" goes back to Aristotle. Only that a cohesive community seems to be especially important for SLACs, and in fact that ideal is woven in to the missions of many.

At any rate, this little detour isn't terribly relevant to the OP's question, beyond the fact that a small college in a not-so-great location might feel even more isolating by this sort of divide, which is why I was wondering. Be well, my friend.

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

Agree.

Most schools have a social divide between athletes and non-athletes, but it affects daily life most at small, rural/isolated schools because it makes a small school smaller.

Yep, at a large university where less than 5% of students are student athletes, a divide is irrelevant to most students. At a SLAC where the number approaches 40%, it's a much bigger deal

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

There isn't much the schools can do. When freshman playing sports are on campus and hanging out with each other a month before the rest of students arrive, orientation isn't going to disrupt that dynamic. You also have teams spending hours together which leads to freshman getting to know upperclassmen better than non-athletes and those upperclassmen then integrate their new teammates into the teams' social life which likely includes other athletes.

If schools really were concerned, they would drop all sports to the club level and just have open tryouts every year with no athletic admissions and no large professional coaching staffs

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

How about they get to the root of it and stop prioritizing athletes in admissions? Right.

Is the recruitment of athletes even at SLACs -- a relatively new thing in the life of these schools

[What? It's not a new thing for SLACs to recruit athletes. That's been around forever.]

-- a strategy to game the rankings?

[SLACs do not need to "game the rankings". They are what Jeff Seligo calls "sellers". They are selective. That's what the S in SLAC stands for.]

It def seems like the athlete/non-athlete divide has gotten much bigger at many SLACs, which seems really antithetical to their purported missions. It's too bad.

[Athleticism is not antithetical to the mission of any college. It's too bad you're still bitter because you were always picked last for grade school kickball.]

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

Agree.

Most schools have a social divide between athletes and non-athletes, but it affects daily life most at small, rural/isolated schools because it makes a small school smaller.

Anonymous wrote:Allegheny.

Seems like a good school, but the town is beyond sketchy.

Conn College’s town is not great either, but nearby Mystic is nice.

We're in town for a visit now. It...could be a lot worse! DD isn't ruling it out because the location.

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

How about they get to the root of it and stop prioritizing athletes in admissions? Right.

Is the recruitment of athletes even at SLACs -- a relatively new thing in the life of these schools -- a strategy to game the rankings? It shifts admission earlier (reducing RD acceptance rates) and increases yield. I know it increases tuition revenue, since statistically speaking the athletes at these schools tend to pay more tuition. But it seems like the rankings might be just as big a motivator, if not bigger.

It def seems like the athlete/non-athlete divide has gotten much bigger at many SLACs, which seems really antithetical to their purported missions. It's too bad.

this saddens me to hear. I went to a NESCAC and roomed for four years with the field hockey captain and had many friends who were athletes. Sure, during their seasons they ate with all of the athletes every night but otherwise mixed in. Back then, some teams took walk ons and I have no idea idea if the admissions standards were lowered for anyone besides the football players (their words, not mine). It has to be that the recruitment process has led to more of the professonalization of the teams like you see at D1 schools and therefore more separation between the athletes and non-athletes. Personally, I think the whole process of special consideration for athletes needs to end.

To each his own, I guess. I went to what was then a TINY school (less than 800 students total) on the eastern shore and never gave it a second thought.

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

How about they get to the root of it and stop prioritizing athletes in admissions? Right.

Is the recruitment of athletes even at SLACs -- a relatively new thing in the life of these schools -- a strategy to game the rankings? It shifts admission earlier (reducing RD acceptance rates) and increases yield. I know it increases tuition revenue, since statistically speaking the athletes at these schools tend to pay more tuition. But it seems like the rankings might be just as big a motivator, if not bigger.

It def seems like the athlete/non-athlete divide has gotten much bigger at many SLACs, which seems really antithetical to their purported missions. It's too bad.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

How about they get to the root of it and stop prioritizing athletes in admissions? Right.

Anonymous wrote:Grinnell, or at least I don’t find their location in the middle of nowhere, Iowa - appealing.

FWIW, I went to Grinnell from NYC metro, and for me the location was part of the appeal. The small-town Iowa setting brought into sharp relief what a wonderfully national/international student body we had (roommates over my 4 years were from Chicago, NYC, San Fran, Minneapolis, Philly, and Kuwait, and I had a network of friends from everywhere). It all felt so beautifully incongruous. I also think the location attracted a really fun, offbeat group of students -- all had been willing to take a leap and say, "sure, I'll go to Iowa!"

By the time I left, I truly loved Iowa. (Still do, in spite of the present-day politics.)

Not for everyone, obviously. But for the right kid, it can be part of the charm.

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.

I've had kids at 2 different NESCAC schools, and I think they all have this issue. The schools are aware of it, and are trying to address it, starting with orientation and dorm assignments.

Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Vassar's location probably used to be a lot better and then used to be a lot worse. Now it is just ok.

The Maine schools are probably fine but just get too cold IMHO.

Williamstown = Stars Hollow

Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Vassar's location probably used to be a lot better and then used to be a lot worse. Now it is just ok.

The Maine schools are probably fine but just get too cold IMHO.

Poughkeepsie is not very nice, but Amtrak has a station there so it is easily accessible. The surrounding Hudson Valley is beautiful and Vassar's campus is spectacular. I am admittedly biased because
I love Vassar!

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Anonymous wrote:Williams is the one that stands out to me. No way I'd go there over Amherst or Swarthmore growing up in an area like DC.

Friend of mine had a son who transferred from Williams because of this as well as the cliquishness of the other students.

such a weird vibe at Williams - only school of 10 my DC eliminated immediately after the visit - she said kids were odd

My outgoing, well-adjusted kid is ridiculously happy at Williams, just FYI. And I've met a bunch of their friends, none of whom are "odd."

There are many athletes at Williams. They tend to be pretty normal socially. I'm sure there is a quirky, brilliant subset of kids less adept at socializing given the impressive academics though. Our student tour guide happened to be quirky, brilliant, but also social.

Williams College reportedly has a distinct social divide between athletes and non-athletes.