Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

NP. SAT scores are not indicators of college preparedness. And, honestly, all the contenders are "college prepared." It's about what the university thinks students will bring to the table or to the class. This pointing to testing data, really starts to seem racist, suggesting students who are less likely to get prep and have lower scores are therefore less "college ready" (you are hinting ar less smart/capable). Stop that.

So you’re saying the only thing that makes Asians college worthy are SAT scores. No other part of their profile is good enough? All you see is Asian = prepped.

Ironic, the op is upset about stereotypes but those defending her position sling stereotypes with haughty self righteousness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

NP. SAT scores are not indicators of college preparedness. And, honestly, all the contenders are "college prepared." It's about what the university thinks students will bring to the table or to the class. This pointing to testing data, really starts to seem racist, suggesting students who are less likely to get prep and have lower scores are therefore less "college ready" (you are hinting ar less smart/capable). Stop that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

That some major mental gymnastics to justify racism. Kudos.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

well, now you're moving the goal posts. This particular thread was about test scores.

Fact is that Asian Americans have to outperform every group in every way, not just SATs, to get in.

Also, who says college admissions should reflect the demographics of the country?

If they are admitted at 3x their population that just says they are super performers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

That some major mental gymnastics to justify racism. Kudos.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Try not to think of it this way - it only leads to frustration. Harvard and others like it are looking to produce the next Ron DeSantis or Terence Tao or Alice Walker or Bill Gates or Michelle Obama or whoever has influence on their world and country. It is almost impossible to predict this when looking at high school kids. College preparation is certainly one factor they are looking at when trying to decide who to admit but it’s a floor. Mostly they want to build this class of future leaders. Their success in picking at least a few superstars is what keeps their brand active and their coffers full. The stats you see are the product of that subjective and perhaps wrong assessment of some of the smartest 17/18 year olds in the world. It results in a class where more high achieving Asian Americans don’t make it than similarly qualified peers. Some of it may be (is) because of unconscious bias. But honestly it’s at least partly because you are using how you might choose those likely to be most successful (academic preparedness) with what Harvard is looking for (none of us really know).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

So you think colleges should have quotas on how many people of one race they admit? That admissions should change to race based and population based admission, not college preparedness?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Nope.

Asian Americans are admitted at 3X + their population. Already admitted at high rates. SFFA is crying "discrimination" but many applicants for limited spots. The SAT isn't everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DP here. URMs absolutely have lower test scores and GPAs for admittance to T25. You have to be really, really, really out of the loop not to know that. White kids and Asian kids would never get admitted with most of the URM scores and GPAs. It is not good or bad, it just is."

You're clueless. Their scores as a group might be lower that those of the wealthy white kids with professional parents who attended college. But no POC at a top school is getting in with a score that low. It would be pretty difficult to keep up with the ultra high achievers if you couldn't at least score in the top quintile, and it's really rare for URM students to flunk out of the most elite schools.

DP.

The chart doesn’t support that URM students are getting into Harvard (or Yale) with 1090 scores. The chart supports that the scores are at least at the 90% percentile, which is why the OP called BS on the original post. Big difference between 1090 and 1390. The OP didn’t claim that the scores for URM students are the SAME for white and Asian students.

that chart shows what the chart shows.. that the average black students admitted to Harvard have a much lower score than their Asian American counter parts.

You are being obtuse if you don't realize that Asian Americans have to far outperform every single group to be admitted to those schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have discussed this with my DD (we are south Asian) and the way we think about it is like this. Schools like Harvard are a lottery. The threshold at which you can reasonably buy a lottery ticket is different for different groups of kids (urms, legacies, etc). But it’s a lottery for everyone. And that is the key point. These “stats” are not what get you into the school - we all knew there are plenty of 4.0/stellar EC/1600 kids who get rejected. All these stats do is make you competitive to have your application read thoroughly. That’s it. And it is true no matter which group you fall into.

+1 and ending affirmative action will not change the fact that the top 30 schools are essentially lotteries. That said, I don't think that Asian American students should be expected to outperform or be discriminated against.

Anonymous wrote:I have discussed this with my DD (we are south Asian) and the way we think about it is like this. Schools like Harvard are a lottery. The threshold at which you can reasonably buy a lottery ticket is different for different groups of kids (urms, legacies, etc). But it’s a lottery for everyone. And that is the key point. These “stats” are not what get you into the school - we all knew there are plenty of 4.0/stellar EC/1600 kids who get rejected. All these stats do is make you competitive to have your application read thoroughly. That’s it. And it is true no matter which group you fall into.