Anonymous wrote:Ultrafine particles are less than 100 nanometers in diameter — one one-thousandth the width of a human hair — and their impact on health is only beginning to be studied. Ultrafines aren’t specifically regulated by any state or federal air quality standards.

A higher proportion of the ultrafine particles (UFPs) in jet emissions are so small they can penetrate the central nervous system when inhaled, the report said.

Communities under flight paths, like SeaTac, Des Moines, Highline, Angle Lake, Beacon Hill and Rainier Valley, are exposed to those “ultra-ultrafines” when planes take off and land, researchers found.

The UW study adds to a growing international body of research on the particles, including some preliminary reports showing correlations between exposure to ultrafines and higher incidences of some kinds of cancer, as well as lung diseases that cause trouble breathing and deep, throaty coughs.

“Strong and consistent evidence from animal studies indicates that long-term exposure to UFPs is related to negative effects on the brain, nervous and respiratory system,” the state Department of Health concluded in a separate review of research on ultrafine particles released this month, funded by the Port of Seattle.

Generally, Austin said, ultrafine particles tend to agglomerate as they travel through the air — they stick together and become larger particles, which aren’t able to pass from the airways into the bloodstream. That’s typically what happens near busy roads.

But the super-small particles emitted by airplanes are forced directly downward by air currents and wing vortexes so rapidly that they haven’t agglomerated by the time they reach the ground, her team found.

Anonymous wrote:Surprised nobody posted the DOT noise maps, see here:

https://data.bts.gov/stories/s/National-Transportation-Noise-Map/ri89-bhxh

Mass Ave seems to be the dividing line for noticing things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who are bothered by plane noise seriously bother me. Especially being that far out.

I walk/run by DCA several days a week - it's about 1.5 mile from my home on paths, and considerably shorter if you draw a direct line. It's white noise. And you physically FEEL takeoff and landing sometimes.

Not a big deal, but a tradeoff for living in the neighborhood we choose to live in.

If you're that abnormally sensitive, move elsewhere and don't complain about not having an airport you can get to easily.

This PP seems a bit too defensive. I actually work for a major airline, and I still hate the sound of airplane noise.

In about 15 years, we can expect quieter aircraft, as Boeing and Airbus have those in the plans. (Granted, electric airplanes are less likely.)

You are right. This is the first of these threads that took off; probably because the adverse effects and the terribleness of the situation are wholly undeniable!
Otherwise they just try to shame people into not dragging their real estate $ down by mocking it and others (calling them crazy, abnormally sensitive) but then can’t stop complaining on the private listserv.

Real estate $ won’t save anyone from a near certain disease. Estimate is 70% increase in cardiovascular alone. The only positive from a recent study was that
people go deaf sooner and then the effects lessen a bit. It’s the kids that will have the worst effects later in life from the ultrafines pushed by jets into lungs, brain etc. (not an exaggeration, directly from UWA, German, NJ studies).

Reminds me of Spring Valley people doing the same. We figured ok, but we’ll test the “cleaned” soil. I could have killed people with a pool me of the heavy metals from a spoonful of that yard.

No, thanks

Planes flying a few thousand feet over your head are not meaningfully contaminating the air in your neighborhood. The exhaust/fumes/etc. would be dispersed by the wind and spread out into the atmosphere before they make it down to the ground.

True, but it's still noisy.. We have high flying planes, but you can hear them very well, and it's not like a hum of a highway, it's a lot more annoying and unpleasant to human ear and brain. I am not worried about pollution, but can use less airline noise. I would be fine with a plane flying overhead ever 10 min and won't even notice it. But during the hours when most traffic is directed along specific lines (there is more than one) in our auditory range, there is no relief, because planes fly every 45 sec on average. Noise lingers, one plane leaves auditory range when the other one enters. It's why I think it's unfair to have these beelines in the sky unless you make more of them, so that traffic is dispersed and everyone gets a little, but nobody gets most of it for hours on end every day.

People, they are. It doesn’t disperse, please read the most recent science. It gets pushed downwards by jets into your major organs. Not to be too graphic, but you’re better off standing in the middle of the Beltway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s worsened significantly and the health studies came out; plus new generations are not as keen on things that could kill them

It worsened significantly in 2015 and prices kept going up. There was no meaningful change in noise since then except the first months of the pandemic when planes were just not flying.

What happened in 2015 and why? Why would they make it worse? Why not go back to previous flight patterns or try to improve the situation instead of worsening it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who are bothered by plane noise seriously bother me. Especially being that far out.

I walk/run by DCA several days a week - it's about 1.5 mile from my home on paths, and considerably shorter if you draw a direct line. It's white noise. And you physically FEEL takeoff and landing sometimes.

Not a big deal, but a tradeoff for living in the neighborhood we choose to live in.

If you're that abnormally sensitive, move elsewhere and don't complain about not having an airport you can get to easily.

This PP seems a bit too defensive. I actually work for a major airline, and I still hate the sound of airplane noise.

In about 15 years, we can expect quieter aircraft, as Boeing and Airbus have those in the plans. (Granted, electric airplanes are less likely.)

You are right. This is the first of these threads that took off; probably because the adverse effects and the terribleness of the situation are wholly undeniable!
Otherwise they just try to shame people into not dragging their real estate $ down by mocking it and others (calling them crazy, abnormally sensitive) but then can’t stop complaining on the private listserv.

Real estate $ won’t save anyone from a near certain disease. Estimate is 70% increase in cardiovascular alone. The only positive from a recent study was that
people go deaf sooner and then the effects lessen a bit. It’s the kids that will have the worst effects later in life from the ultrafines pushed by jets into lungs, brain etc. (not an exaggeration, directly from UWA, German, NJ studies).

Reminds me of Spring Valley people doing the same. We figured ok, but we’ll test the “cleaned” soil. I could have killed people with a pool me of the heavy metals from a spoonful of that yard.

No, thanks

Planes flying a few thousand feet over your head are not meaningfully contaminating the air in your neighborhood. The exhaust/fumes/etc. would be dispersed by the wind and spread out into the atmosphere before they make it down to the ground.

True, but it's still noisy.. We have high flying planes, but you can hear them very well, and it's not like a hum of a highway, it's a lot more annoying and unpleasant to human ear and brain. I am not worried about pollution, but can use less airline noise. I would be fine with a plane flying overhead ever 10 min and won't even notice it. But during the hours when most traffic is directed along specific lines (there is more than one) in our auditory range, there is no relief, because planes fly every 45 sec on average. Noise lingers, one plane leaves auditory range when the other one enters. It's why I think it's unfair to have these beelines in the sky unless you make more of them, so that traffic is dispersed and everyone gets a little, but nobody gets most of it for hours on end every day.

People, they are. It doesn’t disperse, please read the most recent science. It gets pushed downwards by jets into your major organs. Not to be too graphic, but you’re better off standing in the middle of the Beltway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s worsened significantly and the health studies came out; plus new generations are not as keen on things that could kill them

It worsened significantly in 2015 and prices kept going up. There was no meaningful change in noise since then except the first months of the pandemic when planes were just not flying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who are bothered by plane noise seriously bother me. Especially being that far out.

I walk/run by DCA several days a week - it's about 1.5 mile from my home on paths, and considerably shorter if you draw a direct line. It's white noise. And you physically FEEL takeoff and landing sometimes.

Not a big deal, but a tradeoff for living in the neighborhood we choose to live in.

If you're that abnormally sensitive, move elsewhere and don't complain about not having an airport you can get to easily.

This PP seems a bit too defensive. I actually work for a major airline, and I still hate the sound of airplane noise.

In about 15 years, we can expect quieter aircraft, as Boeing and Airbus have those in the plans. (Granted, electric airplanes are less likely.)

You are right. This is the first of these threads that took off; probably because the adverse effects and the terribleness of the situation are wholly undeniable!
Otherwise they just try to shame people into not dragging their real estate $ down by mocking it and others (calling them crazy, abnormally sensitive) but then can’t stop complaining on the private listserv.

Real estate $ won’t save anyone from a near certain disease. Estimate is 70% increase in cardiovascular alone. The only positive from a recent study was that
people go deaf sooner and then the effects lessen a bit. It’s the kids that will have the worst effects later in life from the ultrafines pushed by jets into lungs, brain etc. (not an exaggeration, directly from UWA, German, NJ studies).

Reminds me of Spring Valley people doing the same. We figured ok, but we’ll test the “cleaned” soil. I could have killed people with a pool me of the heavy metals from a spoonful of that yard.

No, thanks

Planes flying a few thousand feet over your head are not meaningfully contaminating the air in your neighborhood. The exhaust/fumes/etc. would be dispersed by the wind and spread out into the atmosphere before they make it down to the ground.

True, but it's still noisy.. We have high flying planes, but you can hear them very well, and it's not like a hum of a highway, it's a lot more annoying and unpleasant to human ear and brain. I am not worried about pollution, but can use less airline noise. I would be fine with a plane flying overhead ever 10 min and won't even notice it. But during the hours when most traffic is directed along specific lines (there is more than one) in our auditory range, there is no relief, because planes fly every 45 sec on average. Noise lingers, one plane leaves auditory range when the other one enters. It's why I think it's unfair to have these beelines in the sky unless you make more of them, so that traffic is dispersed and everyone gets a little, but nobody gets most of it for hours on end every day.

Anonymous wrote:That’s ridiculous. What a deflection. How about they don’t pay stupid money for an objectively blighted area to put themselves and their children at risk? That money will buy in much nicer areas of DC without that problem.

It’s like saying keep living in Delhi even though you have plenty of choice of other cities and countries (in this case neighborhoods) but grow organic chickens (which you can buy by the way, newsflash). Who cares what you breathe in?

Guess which is going to harm you with more certainty and quicker?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who are bothered by plane noise seriously bother me. Especially being that far out.

I walk/run by DCA several days a week - it's about 1.5 mile from my home on paths, and considerably shorter if you draw a direct line. It's white noise. And you physically FEEL takeoff and landing sometimes.

Not a big deal, but a tradeoff for living in the neighborhood we choose to live in.

If you're that abnormally sensitive, move elsewhere and don't complain about not having an airport you can get to easily.

This PP seems a bit too defensive. I actually work for a major airline, and I still hate the sound of airplane noise.

In about 15 years, we can expect quieter aircraft, as Boeing and Airbus have those in the plans. (Granted, electric airplanes are less likely.)

You are right. This is the first of these threads that took off; probably because the adverse effects and the terribleness of the situation are wholly undeniable!
Otherwise they just try to shame people into not dragging their real estate $ down by mocking it and others (calling them crazy, abnormally sensitive) but then can’t stop complaining on the private listserv.

Real estate $ won’t save anyone from a near certain disease. Estimate is 70% increase in cardiovascular alone. The only positive from a recent study was that
people go deaf sooner and then the effects lessen a bit. It’s the kids that will have the worst effects later in life from the ultrafines pushed by jets into lungs, brain etc. (not an exaggeration, directly from UWA, German, NJ studies).

Reminds me of Spring Valley people doing the same. We figured ok, but we’ll test the “cleaned” soil. I could have killed people with a pool me of the heavy metals from a spoonful of that yard.

No, thanks

Planes flying a few thousand feet over your head are not meaningfully contaminating the air in your neighborhood. The exhaust/fumes/etc. would be dispersed by the wind and spread out into the atmosphere before they make it down to the ground.

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s worsened significantly and the health studies came out; plus new generations are not as keen on things that could kill them