Anonymous
12/17/2021 14:46
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
I don't know the SES of every pyramid, but 2 schools that could be lower SES - South Lakes and West Springfield - had lower in-pool scores. Even if someone reports their score was over 140, we don't know if the cut-off could have been lower since it's the only report here from that school.
True. Just noting we haven’t seen any hard evidence of low in-pool scores thus far. Even the examples from South Lakes and West Springfield still had scores above last year’s universal cut-off of 132.
This is what surprises me. My children are at a school that would be on the lower half of SES for Fairfax, if not the lower quarter (more than 1/3 FARMS, more than 1/4 ELL). It is the sort of school I would think the board intended to increase or at least maintain the number of students considered. However there are at least 2 students who would have been in the pool last year and are not. One even had CogAT composite of 136. Yes both parents chose to refer anyway so there is no true harm to them. But what about the kid who may have scored 132 or more but has parents who don't speak English and don't know about AAP or understand these changes? The ones who assume if their child was that bright the school would tell them and automatically consider them. These changes were approved by the board with the goal of increasing the net and yet they seem to have narrowed it. Even at the higher SES schools, I hope they actually do an analysis to determine if raising the cutoff resulted in more or less URM being considered.
With no transparency, there is no way for parents to know if the school above truly had 5 or 10% score above 136 or if the school used a county norm (top 2% of the county). Is someone from the AAP office setting all of this or are the schools individually doing it? The memo posted here said the schools would, but then AAP office seems to have mailed the in pool notifications. Is anyone double checking the work? One person posted their AART said there was no pool. Was that a lie or someone who misunderstood the policy change and is applying it wrong at their schools? Is the schoolboard aware that the change to the pool process, which appears to have been made solely by Brabrand, does not include the safety net of the national norm like last year?
Interesting. We’re at a Title I school. I only know one other second grader well enough to know their scores but both that child and my own scored more than 140 and were in the pool.
Anonymous
12/17/2021 14:37
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
They should publish each school's threshold. It is the only way parents can be confident there is no error in computing their kid's pool status.
Anonymous
12/17/2021 13:49
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Pyramid NNAT Cogat composite Cogat Verbal Cogat Quantitative Cogat Non-Verbal In pool
Oakton 140 127 ? ? ? ?
Marshall 120 132 ? ? ? ?
? 106 138 ? ? ? ?
Herndon 142 140 ? ? ? ?
McLean 129 110 110 113 109 No
Langley 126 131 118 127 135 No
Marshall ? 131 ? ? ? No
McLean ? 131 ? ? ? No
Oakton ? 131 ? ? ? No
Marshall 111 132 128 121 135 No
Marshall ? 132 ? ? ? No
Edison ? 133 ? ? ? No
Lake Braddock ? 133 131 138 112 No
? ? 136 ? ? ? No
Oakton 133 136 ? ? ? No
Madison 121 137 129 135 129 No
Chantilly ? 138 ? ? ? No
Oakton 137 138 ? ? ? No
SouthLakes 137 120 ? 125 ? Yes
WestSpringfield 128 132 122 134 127 Yes
Justice 140 139 118 141 136 Yes
Langley ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 151 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 144 140 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 140 124 140 135 Yes
Oakton ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
FallsChurch 152 141 144 132 131 Yes
FallsChurch 119 141 129 141 133 Yes
Chantilly 120 142 117 144 141 Yes
Justice ? 142 132 142 131 Yes
Madison 160 142 ? ? ? Yes
Madison 123 142 148 138 123 Yes
Marshall 134 142 132 142 131 Yes
Madison ? 143 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 154 143 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 145 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 152 146 135 147 131 Yes
McLean ? 146 ? ? ? Yes
Langley 137 147 ? ? ? Yes
Oakton ? 148 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 160 152 ? ? ? Yes
Robinson 140 ? 132 115 132 Yes
Lewis
MtVernon
WestPotomac
Oakton 140 127 ? ? ? ?
Marshall 120 132 ? ? ? ?
? 106 138 ? ? ? ?
Herndon 142 140 ? ? ? ?
McLean 129 110 110 113 109 No
Langley 126 131 118 127 135 No
Marshall ? 131 ? ? ? No
McLean ? 131 ? ? ? No
Oakton ? 131 ? ? ? No
Marshall 111 132 128 121 135 No
Marshall ? 132 ? ? ? No
Edison ? 133 ? ? ? No
Lake Braddock ? 133 131 138 112 No
? ? 136 ? ? ? No
Oakton 133 136 ? ? ? No
Madison 121 137 129 135 129 No
Chantilly ? 138 ? ? ? No
Oakton 137 138 ? ? ? No
SouthLakes 137 120 ? 125 ? Yes
WestSpringfield 128 132 122 134 127 Yes
Justice 140 139 118 141 136 Yes
Langley ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 151 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 144 140 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 140 124 140 135 Yes
Oakton ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
FallsChurch 152 141 144 132 131 Yes
FallsChurch 119 141 129 141 133 Yes
Chantilly 120 142 117 144 141 Yes
Justice ? 142 132 142 131 Yes
Madison 160 142 ? ? ? Yes
Madison 123 142 148 138 123 Yes
Marshall 134 142 132 142 131 Yes
Madison ? 143 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 154 143 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 145 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 152 146 135 147 131 Yes
McLean ? 146 ? ? ? Yes
Langley 137 147 ? ? ? Yes
Oakton ? 148 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 160 152 ? ? ? Yes
Robinson 140 ? 132 115 132 Yes
Lewis
MtVernon
WestPotomac
Anonymous
12/17/2021 13:48
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Pyramid NNAT Cogat composite Cogat Verbal Cogat Quantitative Cogat Non-Verbal In pool
Oakton 140 127 ? ? ? ?
Marshall 120 132 ? ? ? ?
? 106 138 ? ? ? ?
Herndon 142 140 ? ? ? ?
McLean 129 110 110 113 109 No
Langley 126 131 118 127 135 No
Marshall ? 131 ? ? ? No
McLean ? 131 ? ? ? No
Oakton ? 131 ? ? ? No
Marshall 111 132 128 121 135 No
Marshall ? 132 ? ? ? No
Edison ? 133 ? ? ? No
Lake Braddock 133 131 138 112 No
? ? 136 ? ? ? No
Oakton 133 136 ? ? ? No
Madison 121 137 129 135 129 No
Chantilly 138 No
Oakton 137 138 No
SouthLakes 137 120 ? 125 ? Yes
WestSpringfield 128 132 122 134 127 Yes
Justice 140 139 118 141 136 Yes
Langley ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 151 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 144 140 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 140 124 140 135 Yes
Oakton ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
FallsChurch 152 141 144 132 131 Yes
FallsChurch 119 141 129 141 133 Yes
Chantilly 120 142 117 144 141 Yes
Justice ? 142 132 142 131 Yes
Madison 160 142 ? ? ? Yes
Madison 123 142 148 138 123 Yes
Marshall 134 142 132 142 131 Yes
Madison ? 143 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 154 143 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 145 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 152 146 135 147 131 Yes
McLean ? 146 ? ? ? Yes
Langley 137 147 ? ? ? Yes
Oakton ? 148 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 160 152 ? ? ? Yes
Robinson 140 ? 132 115 132 Yes
Lewis
MtVernon
WestPotomac
Oakton 140 127 ? ? ? ?
Marshall 120 132 ? ? ? ?
? 106 138 ? ? ? ?
Herndon 142 140 ? ? ? ?
McLean 129 110 110 113 109 No
Langley 126 131 118 127 135 No
Marshall ? 131 ? ? ? No
McLean ? 131 ? ? ? No
Oakton ? 131 ? ? ? No
Marshall 111 132 128 121 135 No
Marshall ? 132 ? ? ? No
Edison ? 133 ? ? ? No
Lake Braddock 133 131 138 112 No
? ? 136 ? ? ? No
Oakton 133 136 ? ? ? No
Madison 121 137 129 135 129 No
Chantilly 138 No
Oakton 137 138 No
SouthLakes 137 120 ? 125 ? Yes
WestSpringfield 128 132 122 134 127 Yes
Justice 140 139 118 141 136 Yes
Langley ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 151 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 144 140 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 140 124 140 135 Yes
Oakton ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
FallsChurch 152 141 144 132 131 Yes
FallsChurch 119 141 129 141 133 Yes
Chantilly 120 142 117 144 141 Yes
Justice ? 142 132 142 131 Yes
Madison 160 142 ? ? ? Yes
Madison 123 142 148 138 123 Yes
Marshall 134 142 132 142 131 Yes
Madison ? 143 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 154 143 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 145 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 152 146 135 147 131 Yes
McLean ? 146 ? ? ? Yes
Langley 137 147 ? ? ? Yes
Oakton ? 148 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 160 152 ? ? ? Yes
Robinson 140 ? 132 115 132 Yes
Lewis
MtVernon
WestPotomac
Anonymous
12/17/2021 13:38
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
I don't know the SES of every pyramid, but 2 schools that could be lower SES - South Lakes and West Springfield - had lower in-pool scores. Even if someone reports their score was over 140, we don't know if the cut-off could have been lower since it's the only report here from that school.
True. Just noting we haven’t seen any hard evidence of low in-pool scores thus far. Even the examples from South Lakes and West Springfield still had scores above last year’s universal cut-off of 132.
This is what surprises me. My children are at a school that would be on the lower half of SES for Fairfax, if not the lower quarter (more than 1/3 FARMS, more than 1/4 ELL). It is the sort of school I would think the board intended to increase or at least maintain the number of students considered. However there are at least 2 students who would have been in the pool last year and are not. One even had CogAT composite of 136. Yes both parents chose to refer anyway so there is no true harm to them. But what about the kid who may have scored 132 or more but has parents who don't speak English and don't know about AAP or understand these changes? The ones who assume if their child was that bright the school would tell them and automatically consider them. These changes were approved by the board with the goal of increasing the net and yet they seem to have narrowed it. Even at the higher SES schools, I hope they actually do an analysis to determine if raising the cutoff resulted in more or less URM being considered.
With no transparency, there is no way for parents to know if the school above truly had 5 or 10% score above 136 or if the school used a county norm (top 2% of the county). Is someone from the AAP office setting all of this or are the schools individually doing it? The memo posted here said the schools would, but then AAP office seems to have mailed the in pool notifications. Is anyone double checking the work? One person posted their AART said there was no pool. Was that a lie or someone who misunderstood the policy change and is applying it wrong at their schools? Is the schoolboard aware that the change to the pool process, which appears to have been made solely by Brabrand, does not include the safety net of the national norm like last year?
Anonymous
12/17/2021 10:29
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Was 132 used as the cutoff for all past year AAP pool selection?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
I don't know the SES of every pyramid, but 2 schools that could be lower SES - South Lakes and West Springfield - had lower in-pool scores. Even if someone reports their score was over 140, we don't know if the cut-off could have been lower since it's the only report here from that school.
True. Just noting we haven’t seen any hard evidence of low in-pool scores thus far. Even the examples from South Lakes and West Springfield still had scores above last year’s universal cut-off of 132.
Last year about 2/3 of schools had the lower of 132 or the school norm. In prior years sometimes it was 132 composite or NNAT, sometimes any subsection. It may have gone up or down a point or 2 some years. It was always published on the FCPS AAP site. Potentially you could find it somewhere in The Wayback Machine.
Oops, yes--the last year of a 132 universal cut-off wasn't last year it was two years ago. Forgot about the pilot!
Anonymous
12/17/2021 10:09
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Was 132 used as the cutoff for all past year AAP pool selection?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
I don't know the SES of every pyramid, but 2 schools that could be lower SES - South Lakes and West Springfield - had lower in-pool scores. Even if someone reports their score was over 140, we don't know if the cut-off could have been lower since it's the only report here from that school.
True. Just noting we haven’t seen any hard evidence of low in-pool scores thus far. Even the examples from South Lakes and West Springfield still had scores above last year’s universal cut-off of 132.
Last year about 2/3 of schools had the lower of 132 or the school norm. In prior years sometimes it was 132 composite or NNAT, sometimes any subsection. It may have gone up or down a point or 2 some years. It was always published on the FCPS AAP site. Potentially you could find it somewhere in The Wayback Machine.
Anonymous
12/17/2021 10:01
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Was 132 used as the cutoff for all past year AAP pool selection?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
I don't know the SES of every pyramid, but 2 schools that could be lower SES - South Lakes and West Springfield - had lower in-pool scores. Even if someone reports their score was over 140, we don't know if the cut-off could have been lower since it's the only report here from that school.
True. Just noting we haven’t seen any hard evidence of low in-pool scores thus far. Even the examples from South Lakes and West Springfield still had scores above last year’s universal cut-off of 132.
Anonymous
12/17/2021 09:59
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Pyramid NNAT Cogat composite Cogat Verbal Cogat Quantitative Cogat Non-Verbal In pool
Oakton 140 127 ? ? ? ?
Marshall 120 132 ? ? ? ?
? 106 138 ? ? ? ?
Herndon 142 140 ? ? ? ?
McLean 129 110 110 113 109 No
Langley 126 131 118 127 135 No
McLean ? 131 ? ? ? No
Oakton ? 131 ? ? ? No
Marshall 111 132 128 121 135 No
Edison ? 133 ? ? ? No
Lake Braddock 133 131 138 112 No
Oakton 133 136 ? ? ? No
Madison 121 137 129 135 129 No
SouthLakes 137 120 ? 125 ? Yes
WestSpringfield 128 132 122 134 127 Yes
Justice 140 139 118 141 136 Yes
Langley ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 140 124 140 135 Yes
Marshall 151 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 144 140 ? ? ? Yes
FallsChurch 119 141 129 141 133 Yes
FallsChurch 152 141 144 132 131 Yes
Marshall 134 142 132 142 131 Yes
Chantilly 120 142 117 144 141 Yes
Madison 160 142 ? ? ? Yes
Madison 123 142 148 138 123 Yes
Justice ? 142 132 142 131 Yes
Marshall 154 143 ? ? ? Yes
Madison ? 143 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 145 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 152 146 135 147 131 Yes
McLean ? 146 ? ? ? Yes
Langley 137 147 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 160 152 ? ? ? Yes
Robinson 140 ? 132 115 132 Yes
Lewis
MtVernon
WestPotomac
1. Either NNAT or Cogat above 140
2. Only Cogat considered, above 140.
Different schools have different cutoffs.
1. High SES schools cut off 140
2. Low SES schools cut of 132 or 120? Not sure
Oakton 140 127 ? ? ? ?
Marshall 120 132 ? ? ? ?
? 106 138 ? ? ? ?
Herndon 142 140 ? ? ? ?
McLean 129 110 110 113 109 No
Langley 126 131 118 127 135 No
McLean ? 131 ? ? ? No
Oakton ? 131 ? ? ? No
Marshall 111 132 128 121 135 No
Edison ? 133 ? ? ? No
Lake Braddock 133 131 138 112 No
Oakton 133 136 ? ? ? No
Madison 121 137 129 135 129 No
SouthLakes 137 120 ? 125 ? Yes
WestSpringfield 128 132 122 134 127 Yes
Justice 140 139 118 141 136 Yes
Langley ? 140 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 140 124 140 135 Yes
Marshall 151 140 ? ? ? Yes
Marshall 144 140 ? ? ? Yes
FallsChurch 119 141 129 141 133 Yes
FallsChurch 152 141 144 132 131 Yes
Marshall 134 142 132 142 131 Yes
Chantilly 120 142 117 144 141 Yes
Madison 160 142 ? ? ? Yes
Madison 123 142 148 138 123 Yes
Justice ? 142 132 142 131 Yes
Marshall 154 143 ? ? ? Yes
Madison ? 143 ? ? ? Yes
McLean ? 145 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 152 146 135 147 131 Yes
McLean ? 146 ? ? ? Yes
Langley 137 147 ? ? ? Yes
McLean 160 152 ? ? ? Yes
Robinson 140 ? 132 115 132 Yes
Lewis
MtVernon
WestPotomac
1. Either NNAT or Cogat above 140
2. Only Cogat considered, above 140.
Different schools have different cutoffs.
1. High SES schools cut off 140
2. Low SES schools cut of 132 or 120? Not sure
Anonymous
12/17/2021 09:45
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
I don't know the SES of every pyramid, but 2 schools that could be lower SES - South Lakes and West Springfield - had lower in-pool scores. Even if someone reports their score was over 140, we don't know if the cut-off could have been lower since it's the only report here from that school.
True. Just noting we haven’t seen any hard evidence of low in-pool scores thus far. Even the examples from South Lakes and West Springfield still had scores above last year’s universal cut-off of 132.
Anonymous
12/17/2021 09:40
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
I don't know the SES of every pyramid, but 2 schools that could be lower SES - South Lakes and West Springfield - had lower in-pool scores. Even if someone reports their score was over 140, we don't know if the cut-off could have been lower since it's the only report here from that school.
We are in the South Lake pyramid and it is hard to tell what school the poster was coming from. There are several Middle Class and Upper Middle Class schools in the pyramid and at least one FARMs, I think it is more then that, ES. The NNAT score was high enough that the student probably would be included in most of the schools local pools but the CogAT scores would not put a child in pool in several of the SLHS ES but might from the Title I ES in the pyramid.
Anonymous
12/17/2021 09:24
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
I don't know the SES of every pyramid, but 2 schools that could be lower SES - South Lakes and West Springfield - had lower in-pool scores. Even if someone reports their score was over 140, we don't know if the cut-off could have been lower since it's the only report here from that school.
Anonymous
12/17/2021 09:19
Subject: Re:Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Madison Pyramid
NNAT 121
CogAT 137, NV 129, Q 135 V 129
Not in pool
NNAT 121
CogAT 137, NV 129, Q 135 V 129
Not in pool
Anonymous
12/17/2021 09:16
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.
I’m sure DCUM isn’t a representative sample, but not seeing much evidence of pool discrepancies between higher and lower SES schools thus far.
Anonymous
12/17/2021 01:01
Subject: Cogat and NNAt 2021 Scores Sharing thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the clarification. It’s all speculation since we don’t know what criteria they are following.
1. Either NNAT or Cogat above 140
2. Only Cogat considered, above 140.
Different schools have different cutoffs.
1. High SES schools cut off 140
2. Low SES schools cut of 132 or 120? Not sure
Falls Church Pyramid,
NNAT: 152,
COGAT: composite 141, Verbal 144, Q 132, NV131. In pool.