Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

I think anyone with a tiny bit of imagination can design a class that goes from the Bible to Shakespeare to Toni Morrison. Or a sequence that does Shakespeare in one semester then Toni Morrison the next.

What's it again with the Bible?! Can we please leave religious indoctrination out of school?

Anonymous wrote:At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

I think anyone with a tiny bit of imagination can design a class that goes from the Bible to Shakespeare to Toni Morrison. Or a sequence that does Shakespeare in one semester then Toni Morrison the next.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this doesn’t matter to anyone, but I’m watching an episode of Law and Order SVU. The father in the midst of a crisis just told his daughter, Cordelia, that he loves her and forgives her. Absolutely a call back to King Lear, which I would never know if I hadn’t read it in high school.

You can’t appreciate more modern literature and fiction without knowing how brilliant and timeless Shakespeare was. He’s not just any old dead white guy. All schools need to teach it, ideally pairing it with more modern works.

This is absolutely relevant, and is described as cultural influence. Great literary works reference each other and the body of knowledge at the time of their creation and are later referenced by other works and so on.

It should be studied because it makes us understand better our own society and humanity.

Realistically throughout high school one can study about 15-20 works, so the question is what should those be.

Where do you come up with 15-20 works? Seems pretty arbitrary. That's like saying students can only learn 10 vocabulary words a day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, taking a look at varios teams at Deal they are reading:

6th:
Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry
Tuck Everlasting
Inside out and Back Again
Beowulf

7th:
Poetry
Boy by Roald Dahl
Warriors Don’t Cry by Melba Patillo Beals
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Choice of novels
The Ear, The Eye, and the Arm by Nancy Farmer

8th
To Kill a Mocking Bird
Raisin in the Sun
Chains
145th Street


I wouldn't mind some Shakespeare in here, but its still got Beowulf so that's something.

this seems a little unambitious in terms of difficulty

Anonymous wrote:At bottom this is a question of what belongs in the American literary canon. What works do we expect high school students to have read to enter the world as "educated" citizens? They can't read everything, so some choices need to be made. I don't think that anyone would argue that the canon should be 100% Shakespeare. But how many Shakespeare works are appropriate, given that choices need to be made?

Personally, I get the the argument that the literary canon has historically been skewed toward the experience of white Americans and Western culture. And it should be diversified. So that mean that some Shakespeare will probably need to be replaced with works from non-white authors. There are plenty of great ones out there. But we need to find a balance. Shakespeare definitely has its place.

Personally, I think that things have swung too far in the direction of reading books only from the perspective of oppressed groups. And some books are chosen because they show diversity but they aren't challenging from a literary perspective the way that Shakespeare, for example, is, and that's not helpful. I'm sure there are people out there who disagree. But these sorts of pendulum swings are typical, I think, and not worth losing too much sleep over.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, taking a look at varios teams at Deal they are reading:

6th:
Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry
Tuck Everlasting
Inside out and Back Again
Beowulf

7th:
Poetry
Boy by Roald Dahl
Warriors Don’t Cry by Melba Patillo Beals
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Choice of novels
The Ear, The Eye, and the Arm by Nancy Farmer

8th
To Kill a Mocking Bird
Raisin in the Sun
Chains
145th Street


I wouldn't mind some Shakespeare in here, but its still got Beowulf so that's something.

Anonymous wrote:Ok, taking a look at varios teams at Deal they are reading:

6th:
Roll of Thunder Hear my Cry
Tuck Everlasting
Inside out and Back Again
Beowulf

7th:
Poetry
Boy by Roald Dahl
Warriors Don’t Cry by Melba Patillo Beals
Call of the Wild by Jack London
Choice of novels
The Ear, The Eye, and the Arm by Nancy Farmer

8th
To Kill a Mocking Bird
Raisin in the Sun
Chains
145th Street


I wouldn't mind some Shakespeare in here, but its still got Beowulf so that's something.

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so depressing. Saving my pennies now for private school for my kids (which will definitely not further the goal of equity that folks are striving for by eliminating Shakespeare from the curriculum).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this doesn’t matter to anyone, but I’m watching an episode of Law and Order SVU. The father in the midst of a crisis just told his daughter, Cordelia, that he loves her and forgives her. Absolutely a call back to King Lear, which I would never know if I hadn’t read it in high school.

You can’t appreciate more modern literature and fiction without knowing how brilliant and timeless Shakespeare was. He’s not just any old dead white guy. All schools need to teach it, ideally pairing it with more modern works.

This is absolutely relevant, and is described as cultural influence. Great literary works reference each other and the body of knowledge at the time of their creation and are later referenced by other works and so on.

It should be studied because it makes us understand better our own society and humanity.

Realistically throughout high school one can study about 15-20 works, so the question is what should those be.

Where do you come up with 15-20 works? Seems pretty arbitrary. That's like saying students can only learn 10 vocabulary words a day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I assume we do the Christian Bible too (with Apocrypha, not just Torah/Mishnah, of course). Wouldn't want to skip any books because otherwise you'd miss allusions from Ruth to Revelation as you watch NCIS.

not sure if you’re being sarcastic - but yes, some study of Biblical motifs would definitely be part of a great English curriculum. And of course this ties right into broadening the canon, since so many slavery narratives, hymns, etc, draw on Biblical motifs. It would actually be a fantastic lens to build a class around the connections between African American lit and the traditional canon.

It absolutely was one of the pieces of literature we studied at my very secular high school for this very reason. It touches on history and literature. Certainly makes reading Morrison's "Song of Solomon" a whole lot more compelling.

That's BS and just trying to inject illegal bible study in public schools in disguise. If needed, a good teacher can just point out any relevant biblical references along the way as you read Morrison. That's like saying you must first study Latin for years before you can begin learning Spanish or French.

I feel sad for you - I can tell you never had a good English class, one that teaches you to appreciate literature and approach difficult texts, whether canon or non-canon. Only someone who dislikes literature could argue so trenchantly against Shakespeare.

You're confusing different PPs. I like Shakespeare, but I'm 100% against illegal bible study in public schools under the guise of "literature".