Anonymous
10/09/2021 23:14
Subject: Bad Art Friend
https://twitter.com/rafiazakaria/status/1446942572677672960?s=20
Apparently this write Rafia Zakaria has completely new "evidence" (or tea) that involves both parties...
Apparently this write Rafia Zakaria has completely new "evidence" (or tea) that involves both parties...
Anonymous
10/09/2021 22:59
Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would feel differently if Dorland were doing anything inappropriate at these events -- asking Larsen direct questions, making her presence known in bigger ways than simply attending the event with her name, etc. But she's just going to the events. What does Larsen want? For the entire writing profession to ban Dorland from any future participation?
Oh wait, that is 100% what Larsen wants. Who is obsessed with who again?
Larson: Stays in Dawn's private facebook group, reads every post, discusses it with her friends, steals passages from Dawn's letter, writes a whole story inspired by Dawn, names it after Dawn's email signature
"OMG Dawn, why are you so obsessed with me?!!"
+1000, nailed it.
Look, sometimes people get under your skin for whatever reason. That's clearly what happened here for Larsen -- there were things about Dorland that pushed her buttons. But part of being an adult is having the self awareness to realize when this is happening and make mature choices about how to handle. Larsen handled this like a teenager would, and even worse, her friends facilitated that choice by doing the same.
At any point, Larsen could have said "You know, this is obviously something that annoys the crap out of me. I'm going to (1) distance myself from Dorland and stop engaging because it's obvious we are not friends and I don't like her, and (2) spend some time thinking hard about why this is activating me and see if I can untangle it. Who knows, maybe some good fiction will come of it." That was always available to her, but she instead chose the least mature, most provocative route. It's annoying.
When you actually understand the timeline, another thing you notice is that Dorland actually did work hard to step back from the relationship, and to create space. She didn't interact with Larsen for two full years. She sent a pretty thoughtful email to Larsen in which she offered to just remove Larsen from the group (a magnanimous way to just and the problem that Larsen specifically chose not to take up because she wanted access to Dorland). Dorland also had voices in her life willing to say "maybe you are making too big a deal of this." It's obvious from the NYT piece, for instance, that Dorland's husband had suggested the story wasn't a big deal. But even he was a bit shocked when he saw the degree to which Larsen had lifted language from Dorland's letter.
All around, it seems like Dorland is a sensitive person who was working hard FOR YEARS to keep her feelings in check and not blow this situation up. And Larsen is immature and petty and basically wanted to stir up sh!t with Dorland in order to ensure Dorland knew she was inferior and disliked. And worst of all, it's going to work because Larsen's similarly immature friends have decided to play along. These people are in their 30s and 40s! That is messed up.
I initially thought "these people are both troubled." But the more I learn, the more I think Larsen probably owes Dorland money for therapy bills. There was just no excuse for Larsen's behavior and the gaslighting and ganging up in the last week has made it so much worse. I really hope Dorland actually gets the support she needs from her own friends and family because she deserves it. She donated her kidney to a stranger! She obviously has many redeeming qualities and deserves kindness. She definitely doesn't need to be the target of adult trolls so unhappy with themselves they must take it out on someone they deem inferior.
Yes! You are 100 percent spot on. Both posters actually.
Oddly on this forum I feel like there are many people who can be derisive and even mean but this thread is showing another side with thoughtful posts like this. We can be mean, small, whatever but we hopefully all have some boundaries. It’s sad how many people, reading the tweets and texts people dug up like the mean dude chip cheek trying to use her - maybe those were people trying to impress their friends and score a goal on someone who has no idea. I wonder if they feel shame? I am sure somewhere ive said things and piled on about people. I recall once really lashing out inappropriately and making comments about a woman a boyfriend dumped me for long long ago. I was hurt - I would still be so so ashamed of those went public. So why isn’t Celeste ng and all the other writers in the chunky monkey group deeply ashamed of how they came across and treated someone? Even if the person really did give a kidney strictly for performative reasons, as PP2 says, just back away and ask why this person is riling you up. I feel super depressed reading this and these posts are making me feel better. It’s rare we all or most of us agree here!
Anonymous
10/09/2021 22:54
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
My narcissist, "white savior" mom has tried to get attention for "mission trips" where they basically tour, view, and maybe hug and give Bibles to poor brown people. I think the whole thing is despicable. Why go? Just donate your plane fare so they can eat. The answer to this, according to my mom, is to "personally share God's love!!!"
It makes me SO angry, I might write a short story.
However. Someone who has given a kidney has actually saved a life. I can't even go with the idea that this lady went through the surgery just for attention. What kind of place are we in that the kidney donor gets sh!t on??
Maybe Dorland went too far in pursuing this, but I feel way more for her.
Agree with the "punching down" comments. This was the "in crowd" messing with the awkward person. The race element is insulting, a red herring, and not impressed with Ng.
It makes me SO angry, I might write a short story.
However. Someone who has given a kidney has actually saved a life. I can't even go with the idea that this lady went through the surgery just for attention. What kind of place are we in that the kidney donor gets sh!t on??
Maybe Dorland went too far in pursuing this, but I feel way more for her.
Agree with the "punching down" comments. This was the "in crowd" messing with the awkward person. The race element is insulting, a red herring, and not impressed with Ng.
Anonymous
10/09/2021 22:45
Subject: Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Larson clearly wrote the story as she did because she knew her friends would get an insider's laugh at the woman they'd already been laughing at in their Chunky Monkeys group. Sociopath.
It also said she wrote it as a "test," and people always fail tests. I'd much prefer someone be straightforward. But, Larson clearly couldn't do that since she also lied about her affection when asked. Why not tell the truth?
Anonymous
10/09/2021 22:29
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
I have FB friends who post about their altruistic doings. I got vaccinated! I gave blood! I donated! (I did the "vaccinated" one myself, because it felt like a moment - not really an accomplishment, but a mile marker.)
There was an FB post recently that I thought was over the top, and it made me wonder about my FB friend, but overall I think she is a good person and I like her, so I decided to just go with that feeling. Because after all, even if she were giving her own self props, she was raising awareness about an easy thing to do that saves lives.
So this lady REALLY did not like Dawn. I have read the NYT story plus the "Kindness" short story. Unless more info comes out that changes my mind: Larson is the monster. Maybe Dorland is annoying.
My most sympathetic (to Larson) take is: Maybe Dorland is really a crazy narcissist, and Larson was triggered, due to past experiences with narcissists. So Larson decides to write about it as a way to process her ugly feelings. But what was Dorland's crime? Maybe Larsen didn't want to hang out with Dorland, but as far as we know, Dorland did nothing terrible to Larson. Nothing to deserve this takedown.
I saw many petty, mean moves on Larson's part. Signing the letter "Kindly"???So who is the bad art friend? Who is the narcissist? Larson seems like a "cool girl" for sure, but she has betrayed herself. I wish she were ashamed.
There was an FB post recently that I thought was over the top, and it made me wonder about my FB friend, but overall I think she is a good person and I like her, so I decided to just go with that feeling. Because after all, even if she were giving her own self props, she was raising awareness about an easy thing to do that saves lives.
So this lady REALLY did not like Dawn. I have read the NYT story plus the "Kindness" short story. Unless more info comes out that changes my mind: Larson is the monster. Maybe Dorland is annoying.
My most sympathetic (to Larson) take is: Maybe Dorland is really a crazy narcissist, and Larson was triggered, due to past experiences with narcissists. So Larson decides to write about it as a way to process her ugly feelings. But what was Dorland's crime? Maybe Larsen didn't want to hang out with Dorland, but as far as we know, Dorland did nothing terrible to Larson. Nothing to deserve this takedown.
I saw many petty, mean moves on Larson's part. Signing the letter "Kindly"???So who is the bad art friend? Who is the narcissist? Larson seems like a "cool girl" for sure, but she has betrayed herself. I wish she were ashamed.
Anonymous
10/09/2021 22:09
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
That made me sad. Dawn was in the class, being sunny and happy, offering advice and connection and this guy has to run and tattle like a real prick. Does DFD stand for Dawn F***ing Doland?
Yes, DFD stands for that, and guess who coined the term? Celeste Ng, of all people. Not even joking.
Is this the part where I say I was always deeply annoyed by Little Fires Everywhere? The book - I never saw the miniseries. Mia was one of the biggest “Mary-Sue” characters I’ve ever read in a book that fancied itself as serious “literature.” So out of place in a book with mostly realistic characters otherwise, she felt like an author self-insert at times.
Anonymous
10/09/2021 21:49
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
That made me sad. Dawn was in the class, being sunny and happy, offering advice and connection and this guy has to run and tattle like a real prick. Does DFD stand for Dawn F***ing Doland?
Yes, DFD stands for that, and guess who coined the term? Celeste Ng, of all people. Not even joking.
Anonymous
10/09/2021 21:44
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Ugh, that is sooooo gross. And what kind of non-man is "Chip Cheek" that he got down and rolled around in this petty muck. I thought men were supposed to be above all this? The social payoff must have been too tempting for ole Chip Cheek. Dissing Dawn for offering real estate and friend connections, but wanting to take her up on them anyway. GROSS.
Anonymous
10/09/2021 21:21
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
That made me sad. Dawn was in the class, being sunny and happy, offering advice and connection and this guy has to run and tattle like a real prick. Does DFD stand for Dawn F***ing Doland?
holy sh*t that is evil. wow. wow.
That paragraph is deranged.
1. First he assumes Dawn somehow stalked him and his wife to a baby and me class in Los Angeles, where she lives, and where he has just moved. Think about the level of self-absorption it takes to run into someone in their hometown where you are a newcomer and assume they are stalking YOU.
2. Then Dawn is an incredibly friendly and welcoming person to them, basically just being a good friend/acquaintance and providing this guy with exactly what he and his wife needed at this point in their lives, and he talks about it like this is a suspicious activity, like there is something nefarious about Dawn's kindness specifically because it was so helpful. WTF.
3. Then he contemplates just using Dawn for her connections and helpfulness even though he does not like her and in fact really dislikes her (why? unclear -- she sounds like a fantastic person in this anecdote but it is a given in this writing group that everyone hates her for some reason). In other words, his first response to Dawn's kindness is to take advantage of it. Real question: are these people sociopaths?
For real, how do these people even function in the world? The combination of insecure, heartless, self-absorbed, and straight up dumb is truly something.
Anonymous
10/09/2021 21:07
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:
That made me sad. Dawn was in the class, being sunny and happy, offering advice and connection and this guy has to run and tattle like a real prick. Does DFD stand for Dawn F***ing Doland?
holy sh*t that is evil. wow. wow.
Anonymous
10/09/2021 21:03
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
That made me sad. Dawn was in the class, being sunny and happy, offering advice and connection and this guy has to run and tattle like a real prick. Does DFD stand for Dawn F***ing Doland?
Anonymous
10/09/2021 20:39
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where can I actually read the short story, entitled “The Kindest” by Sonya Larson?
Ooh thanks to PP now I Can read it! https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.206189/gov.uscourts.mad.206189.1.3.pdf
It's pretty terrible actually.
I am killing myself writing this complicated space opera making up an entire universe and this basic b writes a catty story about a miserable person. Then says it's all about the donor being white.
Anonymous
Anonymous
10/09/2021 19:48
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where can I actually read the short story, entitled “The Kindest” by Sonya Larson?
Ooh thanks to PP now I Can read it! https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.206189/gov.uscourts.mad.206189.1.3.pdf
It's pretty terrible actually.
And very, so very clearly, a caricature of the character she wanted to believe Dawn was. Dawn had a right to be pissed.
Anonymous
10/09/2021 19:40
Subject: Re:Bad Art Friend
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Where can I actually read the short story, entitled “The Kindest” by Sonya Larson?
Ooh thanks to PP now I Can read it! https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.206189/gov.uscourts.mad.206189.1.3.pdf
It's pretty terrible actually.