Anonymous wrote:The idea that this gal can just jaunt off for a MONTH of “me time” is the most, absurd, selfish, unrelatable piece of her whole persona. I’m sorry, what adult woman — IN THE WORLD — is able to do this? I cannot.

Exactly. I’ve been a divorced, single mom. Her whole lifestyle is unrelatable to me.

Wow! This is a very long thread for someone I have never heard of before. I clicked on it out of curiosity. And it’s a Christian version of Dooce, Glennon Doyle, Brene Brown, etc. I —for the life of me— cannot figure out why any of these women are popular. It’s weird to me that they have such a huge following.

The idea that this gal can just jaunt off for a MONTH of “me time” is the most, absurd, selfish, unrelatable piece of her whole persona. I’m sorry, what adult woman — IN THE WORLD — is able to do this? I cannot.

TL; DR - Jen’s like an MLM.

She reminds me of an MLM-er, as in Mary Kay lady. I was in Mary Kay for several years way back when (don’t judge me - ha). I was an empty nester and fell into having things to do, places to go, people to meet. I piddled around off and on and had regular customers off and on and never saw the “big picture” as they called it to move up and recruit, but I came to realize what a sham it was and just left

So how like an MLM? Consultants are constantly encouraged to recruit and build a down line. Forget about selling the product. “Anyone with skin” is a potential customer (real purpose is to convince them to join). Directors are told to “sell the story” about how they can stay home with their kids, full-time pay for part-time work, free cars, worldwide free trips, get monthly checks of $10,000. We’re a sisterhood who support and will walk with you every step of the way!

Reps get so wrapped up in the culture (cult) they really do believe with their whole heart they’re giving women a huge opportunity to change their life for the better and it becomes their complete passion and focus.

However, deep down they begin to question things and realize it’s not really the way they say it is. They know it’s not working. They’re losing their people, which means losing their income. The only way to keep getting money is to do whatever it takes to get more people. They’re scrambling more and more to try to convince others how great their life is because that’s the only way to sustain it. And the only way to convince others is to continue to convince and lie to theirselves. Its become their whole persona and they have no idea who or what they would be if they stopped.

When they realize that it’s not working because it’s not real, and they’re just lying to women so they can either have the lifestyle they want or keep their ego up. There’s those that walk away because they can’t make themselves keep scamming people with their lies. Others, even realizing it’s a lie, justify it by telling themselves if they change even 5 lives for the better, it’s not they’re fault that the other 300 didn’t. And others, fully realizing what they’re doing, decide they don’t care about the carnage they’re leaving behind because there’s always new people just around the bend.

I think Jen is between the scrambling point but can’t walk away because of her ego, as in she’s a failure and her whole life/persona is fake, and the realizing it’s fake but she doesn’t want to give up the lifestyle, however fake it may be. She may be coming closer to the she just doesn’t care.

Maybe I see it because I’ve seen so many women sucked into an MLM, and have been on MLM support forums after they realize the sham.

The self-flattering “narrative” that Jen and Brandon, but mostly Jen, spun up regarding the origin story of ANC and how they left their old church, is high fiction.

A big example of how Hen is either the total hero of the story or the aggrieved victim.

Hmm, I need to unpack your powerful insight on how they groom their victims. Are the classic tactics that these narcissists exhibit. Some of it is love bombing, what else?

Jen is a very very accomplished narcissist. Trust me, she’s good. In another setting, with the right opportunity, she could be very dangerous. She’s glib and charming and is a great groomer, especially of women allies. She believes her own spin and only can see herself as the total hero (or the total victim) in any situation. She’s entirely secure in her self-belief in her own goodness and virtue. Anyone on her side = good and trustworthy. Anyone who opposes her = bad and evil.

Thankfully, now she’s just a mid level grifter content to fleece vulnerable women who aspire to be Just Like Jen. The ‘Corn Eaters’, as they’ve been described by her inner circle.

Jen does believe every single word of what she’s saying that’s why it’s so convincing. The apparent incongruence between her words and actions don’t bother her much because she lives free from mirrors that could reflect her ugliness. Any kind of push back or accountability is squashed with a fanatic zeal. It’s Jen’s way or the Highway.

This all makes sense, yet doesn’t there need to be a shred of something legitimate to be able to rouse such support? A complete fraud wouldn’t be able to garner this kind of love would they?
Seems like gifted narcissists are tough to detect initially cause they wow us with their gifts even while exploiting everyone around them. Plus they have an uncanny ability to read people and become a chameleon perfectly blending into their target audience.
It strikes me their church gig had a short shelf life because you can’t totally hide the cracks in the facade, too many eye witnesses. As the former ANC folks have told us they started to realize the con when Jen never actually did the hard parts of serving. She’d show up for a quick photo op for her social media while staying tightly cloistered amongst her girl clique. Her actions didn’t match her words.

This has been my deep concern for the new breed of online leaders. They can create these brilliant versions of their lives to get the people to believe what they want them to believe. Then when brutal consequences hit that blow up the fantasy they spin doctor it with creative writing into something that invokes pity and support, but never accountability.
How Jen and Glennon wrote all those stories celebrating the wonders of their husbands while knowing their marriages were an active volcano is disheartening. That they could have such public divorces where their husbands are summarily thrown under the bus but virtually no one called them out of their prior dishonesty is mind blowing.

Anonymous wrote:Yep, cool kid adjacent. I realized watching tonight’s clip of Jen that she’s always been selling herself. The packaging may shift but she’s constantly building a cult around her personality. That’s how she scored a multi book contract as a 30 something with little expertise in anything. She once talked about being warned about the dangers getting that much voice with her book deal at such a young age with her cuteness and personality. Essentially it could lead to pride and losing herself. Welp….But honestly she’s a gifted saleswoman, who has an unwavering belief in herself. I feel a little bewitched myself by her conversational intimacy at times.
A pp wrote how she plays on the vulnerabilities of the lonely and disenfranchised aching for intimate friendship, but it’s all smoke and mirrors.

"A gifted saleswoman with an unwavering belief in herself." Yes! I think this is very true. Does anyone remember the story...I think it's from Seven...where she talks about speaking at a conference and I think she was talking about homeless people or something and then felt compelled to take off her boots (which apparently she really, really loved...it's probably a Texas thing) to donate to the homeless and then hundreds of women were crying and coming and taking the shoes off their feet and leaving them at the altar? You have to have a LOT of 'sales' power to get someone to leave their shoes and walk outside barefoot to go back to wherever. (Me, I'm practical. Forget grand gestures, I'm going home, hopping on the internet and donating cold hard cash to Samaritan's Feet or something like that.) But that's what makes her so good at what she does. Whatever she's doing, talking about, etc she BELIEVES in with her whole heart. I know I said earlier that she wasn't authentic, I'm maybe slightly revising that. I'm trying to think of a word for someone who believes wholeheartedly in whatever they happen to believe in the moment, but what they believe can shift rapidly. (Histrionic is the first word that comes to mind, but that's not quite it.)

Here's my take.
So much of the American Church has become so consumer driven in the past few decades. Megachurches, cult of personality, pastor sneaker, private jets, Six Flags Over Jesus, aka Christian Me Camp.

Jen came out of that. Before they started ANC she and B were at a snooty Westlake church that wanted real bad to be a megachurch like 2nd Baptist in Houston or Fellowship in Grapevine or Saddleback or Hillsong. That's where she first tried to be Cute Famous Jesus Lovin Jen and published a few books, but it hit a wall. Schtick fail #1.

So then they decide to become the sjw-erist Christian SJWs you can possibly be. They were the BEST CHRISTIAN SJWs EVAH Y'ALL. Problem was, as the many ex-ANC members on this board have testified, they really, like, weren't that into it. Running a church is really hard and boring and real homeless people are, like, icky. They had some great members who happily then begrudgingly floated them for years until they stabbed them in the back by announcing that ANC had decided to becoming LGBT+ affirming. Problem was, only jen and brandon and tray had actually decided that. So then the friends who had already clued into the fact that Brandon (and Tray) sucked at the whole pastoring a church thing but were happy for everyone else to do the actual work so that Jen could post it on her socials then disappear again came to their senses and left.

Schtick fail #2.

I mean the guy they hired to take over the BEST CHRISTIAN SJWs EVAH Y'ALL church came from JOEL OSTEEN. Whose church is a bajillion dollar 24/7 me-camp. The guy they claimed to be the opposite of. JOEL. EFFING. OSTEEN.

At the end of the day, it's always been about Jen. She's been at Me Camp ~50 years going strong. She's evolved from being a product of Consumer Christianity to being a diplomat for it. Same song, updated lyrics. Jen hasn't changed at all. We were just gullible. Y'all. Until we weren't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She reminds me so much of Meghan Markle

Huh? How?

the narcissism, the social climbing, the fake SJW, the martyrdom, on and on and on

Yep, cool kid adjacent. I realized watching tonight’s clip of Jen that she’s always been selling herself. The packaging may shift but she’s constantly building a cult around her personality. That’s how she scored a multi book contract as a 30 something with little expertise in anything. She once talked about being warned about the dangers getting that much voice with her book deal at such a young age with her cuteness and personality. Essentially it could lead to pride and losing herself. Welp….But honestly she’s a gifted saleswoman, who has an unwavering belief in herself. I feel a little bewitched myself by her conversational intimacy at times.
A pp wrote how she plays on the vulnerabilities of the lonely and disenfranchised aching for intimate friendship, but it’s all smoke and mirrors.

Anonymous wrote:I gotta admit that while I find the idea of “me camp” totally self absorbed and annoying, I’m excited for what Jen’s probably doing for the tourism in Minnesota right now. Aspen doesn’t need her help obviously but Grand Marais and northern MN will no doubt benefit from her cheerleading. It makes me want to suggest she come to my (also cold) state next summer.

Yep. "Me Camp" is an annoying name, but sometimes being able to just get away on your own, even for a day or two, can be really nice. I spent 3 days in March in a yurt watching BIRDS for pete's sake. I don't even really CARE about birds.

I don't know that Grand Marais really needs Jen. If you've even been there in the summer it is PACKED. We spent a few days there about 3 years ago. Cars line the streets, restaurant wait times are insane, hiking trails are busy unless you drive all the way north almost to the border, kill yourself trying to climb some stupid mountain and the only other hikers you see are a bunch of crazy people hiking in assless pants....but I digress. It may not be well known in the rest of the country, but the North Shore does just fine with us land-locked midwesterners.

Anonymous wrote:I stand corrected, thanks for the feedback. Then who are her followers? She has alienated the evangelicals, conservatives, Bible scholars, lovers of authenticity, haters of hypocrisy and those suspicious of snake oil saleswomen. Who does that leave?

I think some of the subsequent comments nailed it. The 40-something woman who married young and is starting to face up to the reality that life hasn't always gone according to plan. Maybe she's divorced, maybe she's bored, maybe she's exhausted from parenting, maybe she's lonely for a close-knit friend group. She gets to live vicariously through Jen. She may be at the end of the rope, but there's Jen, dangling the tantalizing idea of 'Me Camp.' And this woman thinks 'maybe, someday that can be me.' I also think there's a strong desire to feel 'cool kid adjacent.' Thus the constant barrage of "where did you get that bikini/lipstick/sandals/tummy tuck?" Because if we wear the Jen Hatmaker sandals maybe we'll be a little bit cool too. (I say 'we' because I've spent years trying to be cool by copying other people. Blah. Life got better when I realized I could just be my strange and unusual self.) And that's Jen's brand...always has been. She's the 'cool kid.' What shifts is the group she's coopting for her coolness.