Anonymous wrote:

I'm saying, don't presume to go around trying to claim it's a "fact" that Common Core won't improve anything you don't have the data to back it up.

Well, for starters we have data that says that standards don't improve achievement.
What do you have?

Funny, you haven't posted any data despite being asked for it hundreds of times.

Anonymous wrote:

Fact: Common Core standards are not going to improve anything.

The standards are limiting for some kids and for others are unachievable.

That is common sense.


You seem to have some serious confusion around "facts" versus "personal opinions." Your opinions do not constitute "facts."

The bolded sentence above is an unassailable fact. I don't need data and research to back it up. It is true by virtue of the definition of a standard. It is a given. Meanwhile you have used the statement that states have differing standards and that is a problem as a given. That is not a truism without having research or data. Where is it?

No, sorry, the bolded sentence *is* assailable. For one, the standards are a *minimum* standard, meaning schools and teachers are free to go above and beyond. They don't impose a "limit" - and as for "unachievable" - I again have to disagree strongly, because the standards were compiled from multiple existing state standards that were already in place, with the primary intent of harmonizing existing standards, whereas you are putting forth a false premise that the bar is being raised to an unachievable level. If you are saying Common Core is unachievable then you are basically saying the prior state standards were unachievable as well.

Anonymous wrote:

People with common sense know better than to just accept someone's opinion or talking points at face value without data or the means to verify what they are saying.

I frankly have zero reason to believe you at your word that you are actually in the schools every day, there are more indications than not that you aren't actually a teacher. Even teachers ought to have the common sense to know better than to just make statements without having the backup and data that they can turn to.

But even a teacher might not have a sufficiently independent, objective or broad perspective to understand the differences between states or what is happening in schools longitudinally as students progress, or the trend over time of what has been happening.

Wrong. I have been in more than a few states. I have taught for a long, long time. I have experience with a wide array of students in three subject areas. I am well respected as a teacher. I am terrifically saddened by what is happening and that is why I post. I have no reason to come on here just for "fun". Zero.

If you are reduced to attacking the messenger to discredit the message, you're in a bad place with your argument. The "teachers are too provincial" argument doesn't hold water.

Fordham and others have done comparative analyses of state standards which show they indeed *are* different from state to state http://edexcellence.net/publications/the-state-of-state-of-standards-and-the-common-core-in-2010.html - and I have my own personal experiences with several states that refutes your suggestion that they aren't different - which makes me very skeptical that you are actually a teacher. I frankly suspect you are just claiming to be a teacher in a desperate attempt to bolster credibility for your arguments.

I taught in a school system that necessarily received kids from all over the United States on a regular basis. Varying standards was not a problem.

I frankly have zero reason to believe you at your word that you are actually in the schools every day, there are more indications than not that you aren't actually a teacher. Even teachers ought to have the common sense to know better than to just make statements without having the backup and data that they can turn to.

Your high opinion of teachers is breathtaking. Wow. Just wow.

You are one of the believers that standards will save us all from the "bad teachers". Good luck with that.

People with common sense know better than to just accept someone's opinion or talking points at face value without data or the means to verify what they are saying.

I frankly have zero reason to believe you at your word that you are actually in the schools every day, there are more indications than not that you aren't actually a teacher. Even teachers ought to have the common sense to know better than to just make statements without having the backup and data that they can turn to.

But even a teacher might not have a sufficiently independent, objective or broad perspective to understand the differences between states or what is happening in schools longitudinally as students progress, or the trend over time of what has been happening.

Wrong. I have been in more than a few states. I have taught for a long, long time. I have experience with a wide array of students in three subject areas. I am well respected as a teacher. I am terrifically saddened by what is happening and that is why I post. I have no reason to come on here just for "fun". Zero.

If you are reduced to attacking the messenger to discredit the message, you're in a bad place with your argument. The "teachers are too provincial" argument doesn't hold water.

Fact: Common Core standards are not going to improve anything.

The standards are limiting for some kids and for others are unachievable.

That is common sense.


You seem to have some serious confusion around "facts" versus "personal opinions." Your opinions do not constitute "facts."

The bolded sentence above is an unassailable fact. I don't need data and research to back it up. It is true by virtue of the definition of a standard. It is a given. Meanwhile you have used the statement that states have differing standards and that is a problem as a given. That is not a truism without having research or data. Where is it?

I'm saying, don't presume to go around trying to claim it's a "fact" that Common Core won't improve anything you don't have the data to back it up.

Well, for starters we have data that says that standards don't improve achievement.
What do you have?

Anonymous wrote:

Your opinions do not constitute "facts."

And your opinions are facts? You have yet to give a reason why Common core is going to make things better.

I'm saying, don't presume to go around trying to claim it's a "fact" that Common Core won't improve anything you don't have the data to back it up.

Anonymous wrote:

Your opinions do not constitute "facts."

And your opinions are facts? You have yet to give a reason why Common core is going to make things better.

Why should I? You are the one making the accusations here. As such, the burden of proof that it won't make things better is entirely on you as accuser. But of course, we already know you can't prove it. So that debate is already lost for you and doesn't even need any data from me in rebuttal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One root cause has been an uneven patchwork of academic standards that vary from state to state and do not agree on what students should know and be able to do at each grade level.


Research does not support the premise that this is a problem. No one has ever established that it is a problem.



"No one has ever established that it is a problem" is different from "research does not support the premise that this is a problem". Which is it? Has there been research on the effects of the uneven patchwork of academic standards that vary from state to state? If so, what did that research find? If there hasn't been -- it certainly seems reasonable that an uneven patch work of academic standards that vary from state to state would cause problems. If I were doing the research, that's the hypothesis I would want to test.

When I read stuff like this, it is dizzying. I am not either of the PPs on this one.

We have lost our ability to use COMMON SENSE in this country. We seem to need "research" and "data" and "graphs" and "charts" when all we really need to do is listen to those who are in schools every day experiencing kids and using their COMMON SENSE.

People with common sense know better than to just accept someone's opinion or talking points at face value without data or the means to verify what they are saying.

I frankly have zero reason to believe you at your word that you are actually in the schools every day, there are more indications than not that you aren't actually a teacher. Even teachers ought to have the common sense to know better than to just make statements without having the backup and data that they can turn to.

But even a teacher might not have a sufficiently independent, objective or broad perspective to understand the differences between states or what is happening in schools longitudinally as students progress, or the trend over time of what has been happening.

This is what should be the standard:
Take the kid where he is and teach him as much as he can absorb and learn.



I am a teacher and this has been my standard for years and years. It works and it works well. Plus it doesn't cost a ton of money and the students respond well to it.

Thank you. I am PP. This is what people don't understand. I guess the only student who will benefit from Common Core is the "standard" student. I never taught any like that.

Your opinions do not constitute "facts."

And your opinions are facts? You have yet to give a reason why Common core is going to make things better.

Anonymous wrote:Fact: Common Core standards are not going to improve anything.

The standards are limiting for some kids and for others are unachievable.

That is common sense.

You seem to have some serious confusion around "facts" versus "personal opinions." Your opinions do not constitute "facts."

Consultants flown in from the UK (Pearson is headquartered in the UK) and California to show teachers in Chicago how to teach. I guess when you have overcrowded classrooms and inflexible standards, this is how you teach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAy3vJn4pbs&feature=youtu.be