Anonymous wrote:What I would like to know is how feeding the gators, which is clearly illegal and I fully don't condone, contributed to this particular attack. It seems to me the gator acted in its natural element--attacking small prey, at night, in shallow water. I could see if the gator approached humans on the sandy beach or in the shallows at daytime, but this alligator attack appears to be typical gator behavior. Could someone please help me understand this? If not fed, would the gators typically move on from the bay completely?

Feeding alligators or any wild animal makes them unafraid of humans. Instead of moving away from a crowded beach, the alligator moved towards it.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know how large this particular gator is alleged to have been. Florida Law demands the removal of gators that are over 4 feet long.

What I've read says 4-6 feet, but I think 4' gators are too small to grab a toddler.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article on Disney's potential liability: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/disneys-liability-prior-knowledge-questioned/ar-AAhiiN2?li=BBnbfcL

Pretty much no points made in the article that haven't been made here, but I didn't realize that Disney is known for defending cases against them as opposed to settling.

Yeah, well, they are going to have to settle this one for a huge amount. They would be toast in front of a jury.

In front of a Florida jury?

David Shiner, an attorney and managing partner Shiner Law Group in the Miami area, says the state’s law doesn’t require an owner of a land to anticipate the presence of harm from wild animals unless the owner either owns the wild animal or introduced it. “They didn’t own the alligator,” he said. “But if they know people are going into these areas, Disney has a duty to warn them if they knew of the presence of alligators.”

The issue of the presence of “indigenous animals” distinguishes Disney’s case from the Cincinnati Zoo, where a 3-year-old boy fell into a gorilla exhibit. A 450-pound gorilla dragged the boy through a shallow moat before it was shot and killed. The boy survived with minor physical injuries.

The zoo owned the gorilla, and “there was a miscalculation on how to protect animals and customers from each other,” Branson says. “And if you go to a zoo, parents are aware of dangers.”

That Disney’s resorts are populated by out-of-staters who are unfamiliar with alligators should also have been considered in warnings and signage, Shiner says. “In Florida, we know not to jump in,” he says.

So, this is exactly an unforeseeable accident.

Anonymous wrote:What I would like to know is how feeding the gators, which is clearly illegal and I fully don't condone, contributed to this particular attack. It seems to me the gator acted in its natural element--attacking small prey, at night, in shallow water. I could see if the gator approached humans on the sandy beach or in the shallows at daytime, but this alligator attack appears to be typical gator behavior. Could someone please help me understand this? If not fed, would the gators typically move on from the bay completely?

The particular gator that killed Lane Graves may have been acting on instinct, confusing the boy with its normal small prey, but it may also have become accustomed to associating people with food if it had been fed by tourists. Most alligators that become nuisance gators do so because they have become too accustomed to people. The fact that these sorts of attacks are so rare in a state with 17 million people and millions of alligators, I think, attests to this. Given a choice, gators tend to avoid people.

I will probably go with the confusing poor little Lane with natural prey. Does anyone know how large this particular gator is alleged to have been. Florida Law demands the removal of gators that are over 4 feet long. Sanibel Island had a problem a few years back with gators that had grown beyond the statutory limits living among people. The environmentally minded people of Sanibel received a special exemption to remove large gators to the adjacent wildlife refuge, but the gators would return. They changed their city ordinances to be in line with state requirements after two fatal attacks on people within city limits in two years.

I am a native Floridian transplanted to DC. I love the gator as a symbol of our state, but I also respect that they can be deadly predators and I give them a wide berth.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article on Disney's potential liability: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/disneys-liability-prior-knowledge-questioned/ar-AAhiiN2?li=BBnbfcL

Pretty much no points made in the article that haven't been made here, but I didn't realize that Disney is known for defending cases against them as opposed to settling.

Yeah, well, they are going to have to settle this one for a huge amount. They would be toast in front of a jury.

What I would like to know is how feeding the gators, which is clearly illegal and I fully don't condone, contributed to this particular attack. It seems to me the gator acted in its natural element--attacking small prey, at night, in shallow water. I could see if the gator approached humans on the sandy beach or in the shallows at daytime, but this alligator attack appears to be typical gator behavior. Could someone please help me understand this? If not fed, would the gators typically move on from the bay completely?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This thread now runs to 131 pages. The one on the mass shooting to 52. Were the fifty people who were mercilessly gunned down at Pulse nightclub more or less of a tragedy then the death of this poor boy?

Because there was nothing gray about that one. Shooter was messed up and it was a tragedy and they didn't deserve it. This one is much more nuanced and almost all of the thread is a big discussion about how culpable if at all Disney is.

This. There is much less to debate about Pulse. Shooter was a homicidal maniac. Period.

Also, most people who frequent this forum are parents and can very much sympathize with the circumstances of losing a two year old child. And most people in America have either been to Disney World or have at least daydreamed about going to Disney World. so it is easy to relate to the Alligator at Disney situation.

I doubt that most people on this forum have gone to a gay nightclub, or even daydreamed about going to one.

I think it is just easier for most people to relate to the disney thing.

I guarantee that every parent of a teenager or young adult, or parent who foresees their child becoming a teenager or young adult, can imagine, at least for a moment, waking up in the middle of the night to a text that your child is locked in a bathroom with a gunman intent on killing them. I'm sure that Eddie Justice's mother suffered just as much as Lane Graves'.

Omg no one's saying that's not the case, what a ridiculous thing to try to pick a fight about. Sorry you're offended that there's more discussion of this event than that one on this particular board , but every rational person recognizes the extent of both tragedies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This thread now runs to 131 pages. The one on the mass shooting to 52. Were the fifty people who were mercilessly gunned down at Pulse nightclub more or less of a tragedy then the death of this poor boy?

Because there was nothing gray about that one. Shooter was messed up and it was a tragedy and they didn't deserve it. This one is much more nuanced and almost all of the thread is a big discussion about how culpable if at all Disney is.

This. There is much less to debate about Pulse. Shooter was a homicidal maniac. Period.

Also, most people who frequent this forum are parents and can very much sympathize with the circumstances of losing a two year old child. And most people in America have either been to Disney World or have at least daydreamed about going to Disney World. so it is easy to relate to the Alligator at Disney situation.

I doubt that most people on this forum have gone to a gay nightclub, or even daydreamed about going to one.

I think it is just easier for most people to relate to the disney thing.

I guarantee that every parent of a teenager or young adult, or parent who foresees their child becoming a teenager or young adult, can imagine, at least for a moment, waking up in the middle of the night to a text that your child is locked in a bathroom with a gunman intent on killing them. I'm sure that Eddie Justice's mother suffered just as much as Lane Graves'.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This thread now runs to 131 pages. The one on the mass shooting to 52. Were the fifty people who were mercilessly gunned down at Pulse nightclub more or less of a tragedy then the death of this poor boy?

Because there was nothing gray about that one. Shooter was messed up and it was a tragedy and they didn't deserve it. This one is much more nuanced and almost all of the thread is a big discussion about how culpable if at all Disney is.

This. There is much less to debate about Pulse. Shooter was a homicidal maniac. Period.

Also, most people who frequent this forum are parents and can very much sympathize with the circumstances of losing a two year old child. And most people in America have either been to Disney World or have at least daydreamed about going to Disney World. so it is easy to relate to the Alligator at Disney situation.

I doubt that most people on this forum have gone to a gay nightclub, or even daydreamed about going to one.

I think it is just easier for most people to relate to the disney thing.

Lol guess you don't read the explicit forum, do you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This thread now runs to 131 pages. The one on the mass shooting to 52. Were the fifty people who were mercilessly gunned down at Pulse nightclub more or less of a tragedy then the death of this poor boy?

Because there was nothing gray about that one. Shooter was messed up and it was a tragedy and they didn't deserve it. This one is much more nuanced and almost all of the thread is a big discussion about how culpable if at all Disney is.

This. There is much less to debate about Pulse. Shooter was a homicidal maniac. Period.

Also, most people who frequent this forum are parents and can very much sympathize with the circumstances of losing a two year old child. And most people in America have either been to Disney World or have at least daydreamed about going to Disney World. so it is easy to relate to the Alligator at Disney situation.

I doubt that most people on this forum have gone to a gay nightclub, or even daydreamed about going to one.

I think it is just easier for most people to relate to the disney thing.

We can also very much sympathize with losing a 20-something child. Every person in that night club had parents, parents who have now lost a child. Why is that difficult to remember or empathize with?

As for the original question, I agree with PPs that gun violence has become so routine, and solutions seem so hopelessly out of reach, that we're all tired of talking about it. Gator-proofing Orlando seems like a more feasible project.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This thread now runs to 131 pages. The one on the mass shooting to 52. Were the fifty people who were mercilessly gunned down at Pulse nightclub more or less of a tragedy then the death of this poor boy?

Because there was nothing gray about that one. Shooter was messed up and it was a tragedy and they didn't deserve it. This one is much more nuanced and almost all of the thread is a big discussion about how culpable if at all Disney is.

This. There is much less to debate about Pulse. Shooter was a homicidal maniac. Period.

Also, most people who frequent this forum are parents and can very much sympathize with the circumstances of losing a two year old child. And most people in America have either been to Disney World or have at least daydreamed about going to Disney World. so it is easy to relate to the Alligator at Disney situation.

I doubt that most people on this forum have gone to a gay nightclub, or even daydreamed about going to one.

I think it is just easier for most people to relate to the disney thing.

Interesting article on Disney's potential liability: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/disneys-liability-prior-knowledge-questioned/ar-AAhiiN2?li=BBnbfcL

Pretty much no points made in the article that haven't been made here, but I didn't realize that Disney is known for defending cases against them as opposed to settling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This thread now runs to 131 pages. The one on the mass shooting to 52. Were the fifty people who were mercilessly gunned down at Pulse nightclub more or less of a tragedy then the death of this poor boy?

Because there was nothing gray about that one. Shooter was messed up and it was a tragedy and they didn't deserve it. This one is much more nuanced and almost all of the thread is a big discussion about how culpable if at all Disney is.

This. There is much less to debate about Pulse. Shooter was a homicidal maniac. Period.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This thread now runs to 131 pages. The one on the mass shooting to 52. Were the fifty people who were mercilessly gunned down at Pulse nightclub more or less of a tragedy then the death of this poor boy?

A kid dying at Disney is a "man bites dog" story. It's weird and attracts attention. Plus, it gives people stuff to argue about: are the parents at fault? is Disney at fault?

The Pulse shooting is just another mass shooting. They are common-place in the US. It's the same-old, same-old arguments. Gun controls, religion, immigration.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. This thread now runs to 131 pages. The one on the mass shooting to 52. Were the fifty people who were mercilessly gunned down at Pulse nightclub more or less of a tragedy then the death of this poor boy?

It's not apples to apples.