Anonymous
02/26/2021 11:26
Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Not all kids can fully grasp advanced math concepts at a young age. Exceptional map score is an indicator for aptitude and enthusiasm to excel in the future.
Anonymous
02/26/2021 09:53
Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Not "only the ones that are curious." Also the ones taught at home or enrolled in an outside class. As I was when I was young. But in the long term, research shows that can be detriment to a child's higher level understanding of mathematics. And sadly, in my case I can say that was absolutely true.
Anonymous
02/26/2021 09:29
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I am not the poster responded to, but my child got 285 and was in-pool but not selected to Takoma. It happens. No BS.
MCPS sucks!
I feel like there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a high MAP-M score means. MAP-M does not test ability, it tests knowledge. A high MAP-M score can, to some extent, indicate ability, but only to a point.
Most math curriculum spirals. Take, for example, fractions. In first grade, you learn what a fractional number is and what it means. Then you learn some simple comparisons of fractions to see which one is bigger. Then addition and subtraction of fractions with like denominators. Then equivalent fractions and simplifying. Mixed numbers. Addition and subtraction of fractions with unlike denominators. Multiplication and division of fractions. Converting fractions to decimals and back. This is all over the course of 4-5 years.
A 2nd or 3rd grader, who has learned a little bit about fractions, might be able to figure out how to do some of the harder problems without being taught. That kid would sore well on the MAP-M, but not phenomenally well. Say, 99th %ile for the grade level they're in, but not 99th %ile for 3 or 4 years ahead.
Now say you're testing an age group of kids that haven't been taught fractions at all yet. Most kids see that fraction - 1/3 - and have no idea what the symbol is meant to represent. They can't manipulate it, even if they're really good at math, because they don't know the notation. The kid in that age group who is whizzing through the fraction problems and scores in the 99th %ile for many grades ahead might be really good at math, but they've also been taught fractions outside of the curriculum.
The same is true for other things, especially as you get to the upper grades. No one "just knows" what math symbols and notation mean before they've learned it. A kid with a super high MAP-M score is not just extrapolating from learned knowledge because they're good at math - they've been taught extra math. Now, they might be really good at math AND have been exposed to lots of extra math, but all you can know for sure from a really high MAP-M score is that the child has been exposed to above-grade level math concepts. That might be consistent with their course registration. Like, you'd expect a 6th grader in algebra to score higher than a 6th grader in 6th grade math, because you expect that they've been exposed to more concepts. But if it's not consistent with their course registration, all you really know is that the kid is learning math outside of school.
In general true, but also related to the kid's aptitude in digesting higher level math concept. My DS asked me what "sin and cos" meant after he attended 4th grade fall map. So I briefly taught him the definition of sine and cosine functions with respect to a triangle. Total no more than 10 minutes. He scored the question right at the next map test, at least this was what he told me. MAP is self-adjusted. If you get one question right, you have chance to be challenged with a harder question, or a concept that you've never heard of. Only the ones that are curious of the new concept (i.e., motivation) and aptitude can be exposed to more higher level questions.
Anonymous
02/26/2021 09:21
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I am not the poster responded to, but my child got 285 and was in-pool but not selected to Takoma. It happens. No BS.
MCPS sucks!
I feel like there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a high MAP-M score means. MAP-M does not test ability, it tests knowledge. A high MAP-M score can, to some extent, indicate ability, but only to a point.
Most math curriculum spirals. Take, for example, fractions. In first grade, you learn what a fractional number is and what it means. Then you learn some simple comparisons of fractions to see which one is bigger. Then addition and subtraction of fractions with like denominators. Then equivalent fractions and simplifying. Mixed numbers. Addition and subtraction of fractions with unlike denominators. Multiplication and division of fractions. Converting fractions to decimals and back. This is all over the course of 4-5 years.
A 2nd or 3rd grader, who has learned a little bit about fractions, might be able to figure out how to do some of the harder problems without being taught. That kid would sore well on the MAP-M, but not phenomenally well. Say, 99th %ile for the grade level they're in, but not 99th %ile for 3 or 4 years ahead.
Now say you're testing an age group of kids that haven't been taught fractions at all yet. Most kids see that fraction - 1/3 - and have no idea what the symbol is meant to represent. They can't manipulate it, even if they're really good at math, because they don't know the notation. The kid in that age group who is whizzing through the fraction problems and scores in the 99th %ile for many grades ahead might be really good at math, but they've also been taught fractions outside of the curriculum.
The same is true for other things, especially as you get to the upper grades. No one "just knows" what math symbols and notation mean before they've learned it. A kid with a super high MAP-M score is not just extrapolating from learned knowledge because they're good at math - they've been taught extra math. Now, they might be really good at math AND have been exposed to lots of extra math, but all you can know for sure from a really high MAP-M score is that the child has been exposed to above-grade level math concepts. That might be consistent with their course registration. Like, you'd expect a 6th grader in algebra to score higher than a 6th grader in 6th grade math, because you expect that they've been exposed to more concepts. But if it's not consistent with their course registration, all you really know is that the kid is learning math outside of school.
Very true, which is why in "normal" years, MAP is only part of the admission criteria, and the CogAT test is used, which can help to measure aptitude rather than just learned exposure. But this year, due to covid constraints, only MAP and grades were used to select students for the lottery pool, which is why it's being focused on so much. I will say that up to a point, high-scoring MAP kids may not have had math exposure outside of school, but are figuring things out or applying what they've learned in school to make connections, but there is a limit on how far that can go.
Anonymous
02/26/2021 09:13
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I am not the poster responded to, but my child got 285 and was in-pool but not selected to Takoma. It happens. No BS.
MCPS sucks!
I feel like there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a high MAP-M score means. MAP-M does not test ability, it tests knowledge. A high MAP-M score can, to some extent, indicate ability, but only to a point.
Most math curriculum spirals. Take, for example, fractions. In first grade, you learn what a fractional number is and what it means. Then you learn some simple comparisons of fractions to see which one is bigger. Then addition and subtraction of fractions with like denominators. Then equivalent fractions and simplifying. Mixed numbers. Addition and subtraction of fractions with unlike denominators. Multiplication and division of fractions. Converting fractions to decimals and back. This is all over the course of 4-5 years.
A 2nd or 3rd grader, who has learned a little bit about fractions, might be able to figure out how to do some of the harder problems without being taught. That kid would sore well on the MAP-M, but not phenomenally well. Say, 99th %ile for the grade level they're in, but not 99th %ile for 3 or 4 years ahead.
Now say you're testing an age group of kids that haven't been taught fractions at all yet. Most kids see that fraction - 1/3 - and have no idea what the symbol is meant to represent. They can't manipulate it, even if they're really good at math, because they don't know the notation. The kid in that age group who is whizzing through the fraction problems and scores in the 99th %ile for many grades ahead might be really good at math, but they've also been taught fractions outside of the curriculum.
The same is true for other things, especially as you get to the upper grades. No one "just knows" what math symbols and notation mean before they've learned it. A kid with a super high MAP-M score is not just extrapolating from learned knowledge because they're good at math - they've been taught extra math. Now, they might be really good at math AND have been exposed to lots of extra math, but all you can know for sure from a really high MAP-M score is that the child has been exposed to above-grade level math concepts. That might be consistent with their course registration. Like, you'd expect a 6th grader in algebra to score higher than a 6th grader in 6th grade math, because you expect that they've been exposed to more concepts. But if it's not consistent with their course registration, all you really know is that the kid is learning math outside of school.
Anonymous
02/26/2021 08:45
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's a (hopefully correct) summary of Fall MAP scores reported in this thread so far. Although maybe we are all focusing too much on Fall MAP scores, but there really aren't a lot of other data points to consider.
MAP-M and Math magnet results:
232 - not in pool
234 - not in pool
242 - in pool
244 - in pool (selected)
245 - in pool
252 - in pool (selected)
255 - not in pool
255 - in pool
262 - in pool
268 - in pool
272 - in pool (and in-bounds for TPMS, but not selected)
283 - in pool
MAP-R and Humanities magnet results:
235 - in pool
235 - in pool
237 - in pool
238 - in pool
239- in pool (selected)
240- not in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
245 - in pool
245 - in pool
256 - in pool
The "272 - in pool (and in-bounds for TPMS, but not selected)" is the one that surprised me. Especially since they are in bounds for TPMS. Sorry to hear that. In bounds usually has some spaces set aside - did they do that this year?
My kid had much lower scores than that last year (but a very high cogat), also inbound for TPMS and got in to the magnet program. That kid would definitely have got in in a prior year. That sucks.
Anonymous
02/26/2021 08:14
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:MCPS sucks!
Anonymous
02/26/2021 07:03
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's a (hopefully correct) summary of Fall MAP scores reported in this thread so far. Although maybe we are all focusing too much on Fall MAP scores, but there really aren't a lot of other data points to consider.
MAP-M and Math magnet results:
232 - not in pool
234 - not in pool
242 - in pool
244 - in pool (selected)
245 - in pool
252 - in pool (selected)
255 - not in pool
255 - in pool
262 - in pool
268 - in pool
272 - in pool (and in-bounds for TPMS, but not selected)
283 - in pool
MAP-R and Humanities magnet results:
235 - in pool
235 - in pool
237 - in pool
238 - in pool
239- in pool (selected)
240- not in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
245 - in pool
245 - in pool
256 - in pool
Thanks for compiling PP. It looks like they may have used the 240 cut-off for TPMS. This has been the traditional recommendation line for AIM in 6th, however it is not the Fall test that they usually consider. Interesting.
Add 240 map M and NOT in pool.
There goes another theory! Any Bs in math?
I wonder if they did do cutoffs by each school or type of school (like the CogAT percentiles). 240 is the 98%ile in the Fall, so that is a pretty steep cut-off for a lottery (not saying it shouldn't be steep, but for MCPS that is surprisingly steep).
As they said MAP is one of several factors that are weighed there's likely not a hard cutoff but a score that is derived from a combination of those things that determines pool eligibility.
Last year my child had higher map scores than all of these and only got waitlisted for one. It makes zero sense how they do it.
Your child's MAP M was over 283? And they didnt get into Takoma? I call BS.
I heard this happened last year so I'm apt to believe it. It could be kids with similar profiles with higher Cogat.
I am not the poster responded to, but my child got 285 and was in-pool but not selected to Takoma. It happens. No BS.
MCPS sucks!
Anonymous
02/25/2021 21:12
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's a (hopefully correct) summary of Fall MAP scores reported in this thread so far. Although maybe we are all focusing too much on Fall MAP scores, but there really aren't a lot of other data points to consider.
MAP-M and Math magnet results:
232 - not in pool
234 - not in pool
242 - in pool
244 - in pool (selected)
245 - in pool
252 - in pool (selected)
255 - not in pool
255 - in pool
262 - in pool
268 - in pool
272 - in pool (and in-bounds for TPMS, but not selected)
283 - in pool
MAP-R and Humanities magnet results:
235 - in pool
235 - in pool
237 - in pool
238 - in pool
239- in pool (selected)
240- not in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
245 - in pool
245 - in pool
256 - in pool
Thanks for compiling PP. It looks like they may have used the 240 cut-off for TPMS. This has been the traditional recommendation line for AIM in 6th, however it is not the Fall test that they usually consider. Interesting.
Add 240 map M and NOT in pool.
There goes another theory! Any Bs in math?
I wonder if they did do cutoffs by each school or type of school (like the CogAT percentiles). 240 is the 98%ile in the Fall, so that is a pretty steep cut-off for a lottery (not saying it shouldn't be steep, but for MCPS that is surprisingly steep).
As they said MAP is one of several factors that are weighed there's likely not a hard cutoff but a score that is derived from a combination of those things that determines pool eligibility.
Last year my child had higher map scores than all of these and only got waitlisted for one. It makes zero sense how they do it.
Your child's MAP M was over 283? And they didnt get into Takoma? I call BS.
I heard this happened last year so I'm apt to believe it. It could be kids with similar profiles with higher Cogat.
I am not the poster responded to, but my child got 285 and was in-pool but not selected to Takoma. It happens. No BS.
Anonymous
02/25/2021 19:46
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Here's a (hopefully correct) summary of Fall MAP scores reported in this thread so far. Although maybe we are all focusing too much on Fall MAP scores, but there really aren't a lot of other data points to consider.
MAP-M and Math magnet results:
232 - not in pool
234 - not in pool
242 - in pool
244 - in pool (selected)
245 - in pool
252 - in pool (selected)
255 - not in pool
255 - in pool
262 - in pool
268 - in pool
272 - in pool (and in-bounds for TPMS, but not selected)
283 - in pool
MAP-R and Humanities magnet results:
235 - in pool
235 - in pool
237 - in pool
238 - in pool
239- in pool (selected)
240- not in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
245 - in pool
245 - in pool
256 - in pool
The "272 - in pool (and in-bounds for TPMS, but not selected)" is the one that surprised me. Especially since they are in bounds for TPMS. Sorry to hear that. In bounds usually has some spaces set aside - did they do that this year?
Anonymous
02/25/2021 18:48
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's a (hopefully correct) summary of Fall MAP scores reported in this thread so far. Although maybe we are all focusing too much on Fall MAP scores, but there really aren't a lot of other data points to consider.
MAP-M and Math magnet results:
232 - not in pool
234 - not in pool
242 - in pool
244 - in pool (selected)
245 - in pool
252 - in pool (selected)
255 - not in pool
255 - in pool
262 - in pool
268 - in pool
272 - in pool (and in-bounds for TPMS, but not selected)
283 - in pool
MAP-R and Humanities magnet results:
235 - in pool
235 - in pool
237 - in pool
238 - in pool
239- in pool (selected)
240- not in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
245 - in pool
245 - in pool
256 - in pool
Thanks for compiling PP. It looks like they may have used the 240 cut-off for TPMS. This has been the traditional recommendation line for AIM in 6th, however it is not the Fall test that they usually consider. Interesting.
Add 240 map M and NOT in pool.
There goes another theory! Any Bs in math?
I wonder if they did do cutoffs by each school or type of school (like the CogAT percentiles). 240 is the 98%ile in the Fall, so that is a pretty steep cut-off for a lottery (not saying it shouldn't be steep, but for MCPS that is surprisingly steep).
As they said MAP is one of several factors that are weighed there's likely not a hard cutoff but a score that is derived from a combination of those things that determines pool eligibility.
Last year my child had higher map scores than all of these and only got waitlisted for one. It makes zero sense how they do it.
Your child's MAP M was over 283? And they didnt get into Takoma? I call BS.
I heard this happened last year so I'm apt to believe it. It could be kids with similar profiles with higher Cogat.
Anonymous
02/25/2021 17:59
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's a (hopefully correct) summary of Fall MAP scores reported in this thread so far. Although maybe we are all focusing too much on Fall MAP scores, but there really aren't a lot of other data points to consider.
MAP-M and Math magnet results:
232 - not in pool
234 - not in pool
242 - in pool
244 - in pool (selected)
245 - in pool
252 - in pool (selected)
255 - not in pool
255 - in pool
262 - in pool
268 - in pool
272 - in pool (and in-bounds for TPMS, but not selected)
283 - in pool
MAP-R and Humanities magnet results:
235 - in pool
235 - in pool
237 - in pool
238 - in pool
239- in pool (selected)
240- not in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
240 - in pool
245 - in pool
245 - in pool
256 - in pool
Thanks for compiling PP. It looks like they may have used the 240 cut-off for TPMS. This has been the traditional recommendation line for AIM in 6th, however it is not the Fall test that they usually consider. Interesting.
Add 240 map M and NOT in pool.
There goes another theory! Any Bs in math?
I wonder if they did do cutoffs by each school or type of school (like the CogAT percentiles). 240 is the 98%ile in the Fall, so that is a pretty steep cut-off for a lottery (not saying it shouldn't be steep, but for MCPS that is surprisingly steep).
As they said MAP is one of several factors that are weighed there's likely not a hard cutoff but a score that is derived from a combination of those things that determines pool eligibility.
Last year my child had higher map scores than all of these and only got waitlisted for one. It makes zero sense how they do it.
Well last year wasn't a lottery you had to compete based on merit within your home MS cohort.
Anonymous
02/25/2021 17:09
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:PP here with an update. I'm the one whose child has a 255 MAP-M (and a history of As and 99% MAP scores) who wasn't in the lottery pool. I was able to connect with Jeannie Franklin at the Division of Consortia, Choice, and Application Programs, who was able to tell me that my child was not in the pool because of an "M" in science for the third marking period last year. Super frustrating, since the school told us they were giving Ms in many classes due to "the extended school closure and significant interruptions to the marking period", and the school told us it would have no impact going forward.
At least I now have concrete information to use in an appeal. I'm sharing it here in case it helps others who may be in the same situation. And it does make me think that there weren't school-specific cutoffs to be placed in the pool, but that the discrepancies we're seeing are the results of individual errors like this.
My DS got into both Humanities and Math pools even with an M grade from last year. His name was not drawn though. I have accepted that, and we're moving on from this crazy process. I will just ensure he gets supplemental courses outside of MCPS.
Anonymous
02/25/2021 17:08
Subject: Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:I think it’s interesting that they look not just at semester grades but at marking period grades. I’m glad to hear that actually, as it’s a way of differentiating students, when so many have all A’s. I wonder if they also look at percentages then, so that a consistent 100 percent kid looks different than a 89.5 percent kid. Now, that said, my extremely high scoring kid on all measures and in all marking periods and headed to a DCC home school with an almost 50 percent FARMS population was rejected 3 years ago (although we did appeal and won), so that happens too. Best of luck.
Some of our schools have 70% farms so what is your point?
Anonymous
02/25/2021 17:06
Subject: Re:Magnet Middle School Thread: MAP scores and results
Anonymous wrote:PP here with an update. I'm the one whose child has a 255 MAP-M (and a history of As and 99% MAP scores) who wasn't in the lottery pool. I was able to connect with Jeannie Franklin at the Division of Consortia, Choice, and Application Programs, who was able to tell me that my child was not in the pool because of an "M" in science for the third marking period last year. Super frustrating, since the school told us they were giving Ms in many classes due to "the extended school closure and significant interruptions to the marking period", and the school told us it would have no impact going forward.
At least I now have concrete information to use in an appeal. I'm sharing it here in case it helps others who may be in the same situation. And it does make me think that there weren't school-specific cutoffs to be placed in the pool, but that the discrepancies we're seeing are the results of individual errors like this.
We were in the high 250's last year and didn't make it in. The process is not fair to many kids as grades are so subjective in ES.