Anonymous wrote:Im confused. Does McLean want to become a city just like Fairfax City, City of Falls Church, or just break off their own schools? Because this seems to be to be all about schools vs any other municipal services.

I guess my first question would be why you expect Fairfax County to just give you its school buildings/properties/other municipal buildings if you are going to secede from the county? These properties(Ie the land they are built on) are worth millions!

The county has no way to unlock that value without investing many millions more in school facilities elsewhere. That is why such facilities are often ceded to seceding jurisdictions - the county would actually be relieved of the obligations associated with their existing dedicated use. If you think it would be a bad deal for the county, you are acknowledging the county benefits by treating McLean as a cash cow without providing a reciprocal level of services.

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Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

what is your understanding of it?

DP. Public school is for all people, not just the stellar students, the bright kids, the academically inclined. Or the rich. That's why my kids go to public school.

im trying to understand how PP thinks that people who pay into public schools should not expect decent schools and some semblance of competence ... unless they're poor?

are you saying that McLean residents do not get decent schools and competence? because they do. they also complain a lot.

You consider dilapidated trailers decent?

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Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

what is your understanding of it?

DP. Public school is for all people, not just the stellar students, the bright kids, the academically inclined. Or the rich. That's why my kids go to public school.

im trying to understand how PP thinks that people who pay into public schools should not expect decent schools and some semblance of competence ... unless they're poor?

are you saying that McLean residents do not get decent schools and competence? because they do. they also complain a lot.

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Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

what is your understanding of it?

DP. Public school is for all people, not just the stellar students, the bright kids, the academically inclined. Or the rich. That's why my kids go to public school.

im trying to understand how PP thinks that people who pay into public schools should not expect decent schools and some semblance of competence ... unless they're poor?

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Or maybe you should acknowledge that FCPS short-changes the public schools in McLean and then takes credit for the high achievement of their students that is a result of the additional resources that the parents there have to fork over on their own.

McLean resident (and native) here with 3 kids in the public school system. This sounds like an interesting idea, but I want to know a lot more before I support it. 1) How will our taxes change? Will there be additional taxes, ie city sales taxes like in Vienna and FCC? What would the rate of these taxes be? Would there be a McLean city administration and staff and how much would these people be paid? Would they be elected officials? What would their roles be? How much would be allocated to schools vs. other public works? Would we still be paying a portion of taxes to FFX Cty and how much?

I don't expect anyone on this thread to actually answer these questions, I just think everyone jumping on board right away needs to understand what's really at stake.

You could basically be creating another layer of government services here, so a lot needs to be answered before we all truly understand what this proposal really means.

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Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

what is your understanding of it?

DP. Public school is for all people, not just the stellar students, the bright kids, the academically inclined. Or the rich. That's why my kids go to public school.

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

what is your understanding of it?

Im confused. Does McLean want to become a city just like Fairfax City, City of Falls Church, or just break off their own schools? Because this seems to be to be all about schools vs any other municipal services.

I guess my first question would be why you expect Fairfax County to just give you its school buildings/properties/other municipal buildings if you are going to secede from the county? These properties(Ie the land they are built on) are worth millions!

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Anonymous wrote:The spectacular cluelessness of so-called educated people on this thread about what financial resources are needed to establish a new city is both hilarious and sad.

I can assure you that a substantial amount of work has already been done in the past on this and that the cluelessness you allege pales in comparison to the incompetence of current county leaders and School Board members.

lol

Assure whatever you want. It's hilarious.

I think maybe we disagree on what public schools mean in a fundamental way if you believe that the price of the house a child's family can afford should directly determine the quality of their public school education. Maybe you should get a cheaper house and pay for private school.

Anonymous wrote:The spectacular cluelessness of so-called educated people on this thread about what financial resources are needed to establish a new city is both hilarious and sad.

I can assure you that a substantial amount of work has already been done in the past on this and that the cluelessness you allege pales in comparison to the incompetence of current county leaders and School Board members.

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Anonymous wrote:It’s a great idea. And it will be even better if there can be a wall built around McLean to keep the low-lifes out. Residents could get a tag that would allow quicker access at the gate. Visitors would have to pay a fee and undergo a check.

Agreed. And anyone moving to McLean would have to pass a background check to make sure they are of the right demographic. As a PP mentioned up thread, we don’t our resources to help those living in Annandale or Springfield. So we must ensure that only a certain demographic can move to McLean.

Stop making this about demographics, McLean has a very diverse population. These guilt trips don’t work anymore, we want better for our community and that’s what is behind this idea.

it's entirely about demographics, rich people don't like title I schools getting more funding and attention so they want to break away to keep their tax dollars away from the poorer schools. Local control is the usually euphemism used for secession when the rich part of the district breaks away from the poorer, it's a popular trend in the south https://www.vox.com/2019/9/6/20853091/school-secession-racial-segregation-louisiana-alabama

So, people are forever shackled to a poorly run huge district because the district needs their money to subsidize other parts of the district? I live in Eastern Fairfax and think FCPS is too large and extremely poorly run.

that's how counties and cites work.

but it shouldnt be. Nor should kids be sacrificed on the alter of bad governance for the sake of doing it like everyone else.

But with equity everyone gets to enjoy equally poor governance!

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Ah, the top 9.9% hoarding their riches and only caring about their own kids.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/[/quote]

It gets harder to guilt-trip people after you've flipped them off for years. [/quote]

If you say so.

This thread is appalling.[/quote]

Why is it appalling? If I paid a premium for my house and paid higher tesl estate taxes, and my kids were in overcrowded schools in dilapidated buildings, I would not be happy either. I'd try to figure out how to change that and if breaking from FCPS accomplished that, I'd support that. Why should people sacrifice their kids?[/quote]

Question - are the property tax [b]rates[/b] higher in McLean or are you just referring to the fact that your property values are higher, so the overall bill is higher? I thought property taxes were a flat or proportional tax that affect all property owners equally, not a progressive tax, like income taxes.


[/quote]

People in McLean pay higher taxes because their property is worth more. No one is saying tax "rate". I said real estate taxes--a function of both rate AND VALUE. People pay more for their houses because they think their kids wil attend a school reflecting the increased amount they paid for their houses. If you are so focused on the tax "rate" being equal, then why do you object to McLean families wanting to leave FCPS? I mean, they're not contributing any more from a tax rate perspective, so you should be completely neutral to them leaving. Right?[/quote]

I am the PP and I don't object to McLean wanting to incorporate at all. I think FCPS is way too big - I completely support breaking it down into more manageable, responsive units. FCC is a great model (that is where I live and pay higher taxes), although smaller scale. Just want to be precise on the equal burden that property taxes impose on all of us . I am interested in the demographics of McLean - the overall age of residents appears higher than average (over 48 I think) and I am curious what percentage of families send their kids to private schools and whether that would change - not sure those groups would support the move to separate.

BTW, I do think there is an interesting debate underlying all of the concerns expressed about whether public education should be a federal, state or local responsibility. Not an easy question. [/quote]

It's not an equal "burden," so you aren't being "precise." Arguing that an flat tax rate produces an equal burden is nonsensical in so many ways as the discussion here is that if people pay higher overall taxes, they expect more for their money when they specifically pay more for their home expecting a school commensurate with how much they paid for their house and with the increased absolute monetary expenditure they make in taxes. But carry on harping on the tax rate.

Anonymous wrote:I think the town of Vienna should do this too. We already pay so much in town taxes.

Allegedly, Fairfax County thought about this. There are a bunch of schools built right on the edge or outside the town, to prevent Vienna from seceding.