Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah see I would have given my husband three options:

1. Do your share
2. Hire someone to do it (In your case a housekeeper multiple times a week)
3. I move out with 50/50 custody

I did hire it out for a few years after my third was born. I couldn’t do it anymore, and he started expecting that it would be done. We had a housekeeper 25 hours/week. I don’t really recall giving DH an option, but maybe I did.

My point was just that this was gradual. It wasn’t like we moved in together and he didn’t know how to take care of himself, so I taught him how.

You had a third baby with a man child? And now you’re complaining and you say it was gradual. Cmon. You made conscious decisions along the way the led to this situation. Including having a third baby! Take control of your life and stand up for yourself.

This just reenforces my belief that women are a big part of the problem

Say what you will about me. DH is a man child, or I am weak or a woman child because I wasn’t a good cook or housekeeper before we were married and couldn’t train my husband. But don’t say that my children should never have been born.
You should meet my third child. She is eight years old now and absolutely wonderful. She is brilliant and brave and beautiful and kind. She is a wonderful public speaker and will talk about the importance of love and kindness to big groups of people, including other children and adults. She loves music and math and writes long stories about a fantasy world where butterflies have six wings and telekinesis. DH and I are so lucky to be her parents.

Compared to parenthood, housework is such small stuff.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wasn't the expert on these things when we were dating and first married. We were both a little clueless about it. We didn't cook much, and didn't really "grocery shop" the way that I do now. We cleaned some whenever people were coming over, but not other than that. I didn't see myself as being in a position to tell him if he got the right things at the grocery store or cleaned the bathroom correctly. WTF do I know?

None of this really mattered until we had children. When our oldest started crawling, walking, and eating normal food, my standards on what was acceptable changed. I could wear sandals and bathe in a dirty shower, but I wasn't going to bathe my baby in one. I could live without vacuuming for a month, but my baby was crawling all over the floors and putting his hands and every piece of dirt or lint in his mouth. DH and I could grab some food on our way home from work and eat in the car, but I wanted my toddler to have real food and family meals.

I started learning how to do all of these tasks and incorporate them into my life because I took on the bulk of the childcare (for all of the reasons that women normally do). DH didn't learn how to do them because he threw himself into work. We were probably 5 years into our marriage before I started feeling resentful that ALL of this was falling on me, and by that point it was really hard to change the dynamic.

Yeah see I would have given my husband three options:

1. Do your share
2. Hire someone to do it (In your case a housekeeper multiple times a week)
3. I move out with 50/50 custody

I did hire it out for a few years after my third was born. I couldn’t do it anymore, and he started expecting that it would be done. We had a housekeeper 25 hours/week. I don’t really recall giving DH an option, but maybe I did.

My point was just that this was gradual. It wasn’t like we moved in together and he didn’t know how to take care of himself, so I taught him how.

You had a third baby with a man child? And now you’re complaining and you say it was gradual. Cmon. You made conscious decisions along the way the led to this situation. Including having a third baby! Take control of your life and stand up for yourself.

This just reenforces my belief that women are a big part of the problem

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know if formula is the answer as PP said above, but I do think lack of paternity leave is a huge factor. Multiple studies have shown that paternity leave results in fathers who are more heavily involved with their children.

Boggles my mind that men don’t fight for it. Instead they complain it’s not fair that women get it, or get paid for it. Like...if you think it’s not fair, why don’t you fight for that right for yourself, rather than demanding no one else have it?

My DH got six weeks of fully paid paternity leave. He complained that he was bored and would point out that taking care of an infant was not a two person job. I had to patiently explain to him that (1) parental leave is not a vacation and never has been, and (2) his actual job was to help care for the baby AND to take care of the person who had just been discharged from the hospital after a 9 month pregnancy and giving birth to a child, and who was then keeping the child alive via breastfeeding. It really had not occurred to him that taking care of me was part of the point. He hopped on bard after that, but it was very annoying to have to explain it to him because it should be obvious.

For so long, maternity leave has been painted as some kind of scam women are pulling over on their employers, and that has trickled down to men thinking that if they get paternity leave, they too can scam their employers into a long paid vacation.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know if formula is the answer as PP said above, but I do think lack of paternity leave is a huge factor. Multiple studies have shown that paternity leave results in fathers who are more heavily involved with their children.

Boggles my mind that men don’t fight for it. Instead they complain it’s not fair that women get it, or get paid for it. Like...if you think it’s not fair, why don’t you fight for that right for yourself, rather than demanding no one else have it?

Anonymous wrote:Interesting discussion about breastfeeding. I’m in medicine which allows little time to EBF and I have inverted nipples. We supplemented and I pumped until I returned to the hospital. My husband was able to help 50/50 and I would be able to go run errands or talk walks with my friends while husband watched the baby since he could feed her. I’m back and my DH prioritized saving to take the full FMLA so he’s home with her for 10 weeks and I can already see the impact. Every man has just as much fmla as a woman does so idk why people say men don’t have leave?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see TONS of posts like this all over these boards. There's one right now on the parenting board written by a poor BigLaw attorney with a toddler and baby who is working herself into an early grave doing everything for everybody by herself. Her husband is supposed to be the primary caregiver right now but he's not doing a good job. He can't even take the two kids to the grocery store. He doesn't do chores around the house because "he's not good at them." I swear, I am not picking on this woman, she is just the most recent example of this type of thing that I've seen but it's all day every day on here.

Here's what I don't get. If my husband went grocery shopping and picked out the wrong things, I'd (politely)* point this out to him and ask him to go back and get the right things. If he cleaned the bathroom and did a bad job, I'd ask him to do it again and get the spots he missed. if he said he was going to the grocery store and leaving the children at home for me to watch and work at the same time, I'd ask him if he was out of his mind.

Do these women not do this? Am I some crazy bitch? Early on in our marriage, we had some of this back and forth ^ but I was able to train him into a better husband. Yes, I'm using the word train because he started out useless at chores but quickly got better. Household chores are not hard. They just require effort and diligence. Now we're 50/50 and he's very comfortable with taking care of the house and kids. He even does hair.

*We both tolerate a lot of ribbing/teasing in our relationship and he is usually the instigator. So if he brought home the wrong things, I'd bust his balls big time but I know not everyone is up for this type of teasing. However, in his case, it only takes one or two experiences with this to get on the straight and narrow. He's the same way with me.


I guess what Im asking is, for women whose husbands really do nothing at home and you're at your wits end, have you tried calling him out on it? I would honestly say, "you're being a huge baby right now and it's really unattractive. Adults suck it up and get it done rather than whine." But maybe I am a crazy bitch, IDK.

It’s very simple. Women are now pushed to breastfeed or even EBF. This board and city is home to many educated women who breastfeed. They are left at home with a baby to breastfeed while their husband returns to work. It becomes very clear the baby is their responsibility and not the dad’s. Then they are stuck with the household work since their husband is at work during the day. Many of these women don’t have enough paid leave or want to be home, so they completely drop out of the workforce. Then they absolutely are the default parent and in charge of the housework. Plenty of women lose their identity and become unpaid labor for men in the blink of an eye and a lot of it has to do with breastfeeding. Formula is freedom for women. It might not be the best for babies (who knows), but it’s the best for MOM.

I’m so annoyed by your diatribe. I have 3 kids that I breastfed for 2 years each. Dh still did 50%. I did put the babies to bed every night for probably 9-12 months but Dh had other chores or was reading to the other kids. And now we switch off. Frankly I loved breastfeeding so much (but I’m not some crazy pro breastfeeding person who talks about it).

I’d argue that birth is where the inequity lies. I had to recover afterwards and no one cared about that other than Dh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see TONS of posts like this all over these boards. There's one right now on the parenting board written by a poor BigLaw attorney with a toddler and baby who is working herself into an early grave doing everything for everybody by herself. Her husband is supposed to be the primary caregiver right now but he's not doing a good job. He can't even take the two kids to the grocery store. He doesn't do chores around the house because "he's not good at them." I swear, I am not picking on this woman, she is just the most recent example of this type of thing that I've seen but it's all day every day on here.

Here's what I don't get. If my husband went grocery shopping and picked out the wrong things, I'd (politely)* point this out to him and ask him to go back and get the right things. If he cleaned the bathroom and did a bad job, I'd ask him to do it again and get the spots he missed. if he said he was going to the grocery store and leaving the children at home for me to watch and work at the same time, I'd ask him if he was out of his mind.

Do these women not do this? Am I some crazy bitch? Early on in our marriage, we had some of this back and forth ^ but I was able to train him into a better husband. Yes, I'm using the word train because he started out useless at chores but quickly got better. Household chores are not hard. They just require effort and diligence. Now we're 50/50 and he's very comfortable with taking care of the house and kids. He even does hair.

*We both tolerate a lot of ribbing/teasing in our relationship and he is usually the instigator. So if he brought home the wrong things, I'd bust his balls big time but I know not everyone is up for this type of teasing. However, in his case, it only takes one or two experiences with this to get on the straight and narrow. He's the same way with me.


I guess what Im asking is, for women whose husbands really do nothing at home and you're at your wits end, have you tried calling him out on it? I would honestly say, "you're being a huge baby right now and it's really unattractive. Adults suck it up and get it done rather than whine." But maybe I am a crazy bitch, IDK.

It’s very simple. Women are now pushed to breastfeed or even EBF. This board and city is home to many educated women who breastfeed. They are left at home with a baby to breastfeed while their husband returns to work. It becomes very clear the baby is their responsibility and not the dad’s. Then they are stuck with the household work since their husband is at work during the day. Many of these women don’t have enough paid leave or want to be home, so they completely drop out of the workforce. Then they absolutely are the default parent and in charge of the housework. Plenty of women lose their identity and become unpaid labor for men in the blink of an eye and a lot of it has to do with breastfeeding. Formula is freedom for women. It might not be the best for babies (who knows), but it’s the best for MOM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my DH asked me to clean the bathroom and then walked me in afterwards pointing out where I missed spots, I would hand him the paper towels, say “have fun!” and never do it again. Who would talk to an adult like this?

Imagine if the "adult" left all the poop stains in the toilet and completely forgot the sink bowl altogether. What would you say?

No amount of “training” would cure insanity, which is the only possible explanation someone thinking poop-stained toilets are clean. But if the bathroom were 95% clean, I would drop it. My DH takes out the trash all the time, and never remembers to replace the bin with a new trash bag. It drives me nuts, but after telling him once, I left it behind with all the other petty annoyances. I like not taking out the trash, and I like not having a resentful DH whom I have to babysit. It’s worth the two seconds it takes me to “finish” his chore.

Anonymous wrote:I see TONS of posts like this all over these boards. There's one right now on the parenting board written by a poor BigLaw attorney with a toddler and baby who is working herself into an early grave doing everything for everybody by herself. Her husband is supposed to be the primary caregiver right now but he's not doing a good job. He can't even take the two kids to the grocery store. He doesn't do chores around the house because "he's not good at them." I swear, I am not picking on this woman, she is just the most recent example of this type of thing that I've seen but it's all day every day on here.

Here's what I don't get. If my husband went grocery shopping and picked out the wrong things, I'd (politely)* point this out to him and ask him to go back and get the right things. If he cleaned the bathroom and did a bad job, I'd ask him to do it again and get the spots he missed. if he said he was going to the grocery store and leaving the children at home for me to watch and work at the same time, I'd ask him if he was out of his mind.

Do these women not do this? Am I some crazy bitch? Early on in our marriage, we had some of this back and forth ^ but I was able to train him into a better husband. Yes, I'm using the word train because he started out useless at chores but quickly got better. Household chores are not hard. They just require effort and diligence. Now we're 50/50 and he's very comfortable with taking care of the house and kids. He even does hair.

*We both tolerate a lot of ribbing/teasing in our relationship and he is usually the instigator. So if he brought home the wrong things, I'd bust his balls big time but I know not everyone is up for this type of teasing. However, in his case, it only takes one or two experiences with this to get on the straight and narrow. He's the same way with me.


I guess what Im asking is, for women whose husbands really do nothing at home and you're at your wits end, have you tried calling him out on it? I would honestly say, "you're being a huge baby right now and it's really unattractive. Adults suck it up and get it done rather than whine." But maybe I am a crazy bitch, IDK.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As usual, 90% of the posts in this thread are internalized misogyny.

The one that offends me most is the idea that any woman who struggles with allocating household duties and childcare with her spouse has somehow failed by either:

1) Being too dumb to marry a "good" husband
2) Being too obtuse to realize her husband sucks more than other husbands
3) Being too lazy to train her "bad" husband
4) Being too incompetent to just do it herself
5) Being too high-strung to just accept less than perfect
6) Being too poor to just hire it out

Imagine what the world would be like if, instead of constantly trying to prove that we alone figured out how to solve gender inequality in our specific marriage by just being smarter or prettier or more organized than all the other lesser women. Imagine if instead we supported each other. Imagine if every time some man said "Whatever, you're never happy anyway so why should I try", all the women backed that man's wife up and said "No, dumbass, you need to try harder."

But no, let's just keep doing this instead. It's working out GREAT.

Well said. Thank you.

I think it is difficult because there are two types of people here. People who could hold their husbands to a hire standard and women who are legitimately in shi**y relationships.

I'm honestly not sure what the latter want. If you suggest ways they could improve, they say those won't work and if you suggest leaving they say that won't work. And in some ways I fully believe them. But I do believe you can always leave if you are motivated enough, and I honestly don't know what the point is in just saying, 'ok I agree you are in a very difficult situation that has no easy solution so you should just endure it for the rest of your life'.

Men should be held to a higher standard and rise to it, women should not have to live with it, I fully fully agree with those two propositions, and yet I still feel like my posts are at least somewhat the kind of thing you're talking about.

can't you see the embedded misogyning in WOMEN having to be the ones to "hold" men to a "higher standard"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wasn't the expert on these things when we were dating and first married. We were both a little clueless about it. We didn't cook much, and didn't really "grocery shop" the way that I do now. We cleaned some whenever people were coming over, but not other than that. I didn't see myself as being in a position to tell him if he got the right things at the grocery store or cleaned the bathroom correctly. WTF do I know?

None of this really mattered until we had children. When our oldest started crawling, walking, and eating normal food, my standards on what was acceptable changed. I could wear sandals and bathe in a dirty shower, but I wasn't going to bathe my baby in one. I could live without vacuuming for a month, but my baby was crawling all over the floors and putting his hands and every piece of dirt or lint in his mouth. DH and I could grab some food on our way home from work and eat in the car, but I wanted my toddler to have real food and family meals.

I started learning how to do all of these tasks and incorporate them into my life because I took on the bulk of the childcare (for all of the reasons that women normally do). DH didn't learn how to do them because he threw himself into work. We were probably 5 years into our marriage before I started feeling resentful that ALL of this was falling on me, and by that point it was really hard to change the dynamic.

Yeah see I would have given my husband three options:

1. Do your share
2. Hire someone to do it (In your case a housekeeper multiple times a week)
3. I move out with 50/50 custody

I did hire it out for a few years after my third was born. I couldn’t do it anymore, and he started expecting that it would be done. We had a housekeeper 25 hours/week. I don’t really recall giving DH an option, but maybe I did.

My point was just that this was gradual. It wasn’t like we moved in together and he didn’t know how to take care of himself, so I taught him how.