Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing to take into consideration is that the applications ask a lot of questions about us parents. My DD is half Indian and half white, and she was just going to put "mixed race" and be done. However, her dad's name is obviously Indian, but not only that, he went to undergrad in India, and the applications all require that you put down where your parents went to college. DD also wrote things in her essays that clearly indicated she grew up with her Indian grandparents living in our home. I think it made for a rich narrative of who she was and her essays were really strong.

So there are a lot of other places on the applications where it is very difficult to hide your heritage. But DD also did just fine and is going to a top 20 school. Kids should be honest about who they are - I think that's what pays off in the end because schools want to get to know them for who they are, not who they think the schools want them to be.

The only thing that I like about the Coalition App is that you can leave the parent's colleges blank, at least in the 19-20 application cycle. Ask me how I know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To quote a good friend: my child would not want to attend a school where their race is a strike against them.

Also, on interview it will be apparent.

Last but not least, don’t you want your child to be proud of who they are? Dońt teach them to deny their heritage.

For all of these reasons, my child marked Asian on her applications.

(If anything, I think it helped her. She was looking at SLAC’s and many of them struggle with diversity)

I don't think this has anything to do with not being proud of their heritage. It's about avoiding the Asian penalty in schools that in effect have one. Your DD's school clearly didn't have one. Other school in effect do.

But you are literally advising them to pretend, on paper, that they are a different race. You are saying deny who you are. I would never advise my child (who is chinese) to do that. But then again, I put their self esteem over rankings and status.

The thing is that if admissions offices were not hopelessly racist, there would be no need for them to know the applicant's race.

Anonymous wrote:One thing to take into consideration is that the applications ask a lot of questions about us parents. My DD is half Indian and half white, and she was just going to put "mixed race" and be done. However, her dad's name is obviously Indian, but not only that, he went to undergrad in India, and the applications all require that you put down where your parents went to college. DD also wrote things in her essays that clearly indicated she grew up with her Indian grandparents living in our home. I think it made for a rich narrative of who she was and her essays were really strong.

So there are a lot of other places on the applications where it is very difficult to hide your heritage. But DD also did just fine and is going to a top 20 school. Kids should be honest about who they are - I think that's what pays off in the end because schools want to get to know them for who they are, not who they think the schools want them to be.

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Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

What is 99th percentile for whites and Asians? There’s a huge difference between 99th and 98th percentile. Usually the 98th students will struggle in following the 99th percentile students. Unless the school dumbs down for the 98th.

Only if you think that grades, course rigor and academic motivation are irrelevant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have heard of colleges rescinding offers if they know that you lied ie: it's is relatively easy to see if someone is Asian or not.

Maybe, or maybe not.

If you are 1/2 black and 1/2 white, what do you do?

Can you check the black box only?

What if you look like Meghan Markle and you check the black box? If you are interviewed, will the offer be rescinded?

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Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

so what? it's 94-97th percentile for all test takers. it's a perfectly good score. college admissions isn't a SAT contest. you get a 1400 on the SAT, you're doing fine.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

What is 99th percentile for whites and Asians? There’s a huge difference between 99th and 98th percentile. Usually the 98th students will struggle in following the 99th percentile students. Unless the school dumbs down for the 98th.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

What is 99th percentile for whites and Asians? There’s a huge difference between 99th and 98th percentile. Usually the 98th students will struggle in following the 99th percentile students. Unless the school dumbs down for the 98th.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

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Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?

Nationwide 1400 is 99th percentile for African American SAT takers.
For Asian Americans 1400 is 79th percentile (1500 is 93rd percentile).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

I didn’t read his 170 page testimony- but did you know its author, PETER S. ARCIDIACONO, was a plaintiffs’ witness? He was pointing out the deleterious effect of unprepared students at Harvard. The average SAT score at some of the state unis is higher than 1400-1420.

I did know that - I even stated that I my post. I’m not surprised you didn’t read it since you can’t manage to read and understand a five line forum post.

I read his testimony. I would have read it in order to comment on it so I don’t make stupid comments not grounded in facts. But you do you.

Re state universities - which ones? Do you know them off the top of your head? Berkeley and UVA aren’t. Michigan isn’t either.

The average sat at Berkeley is not under 1400. Come on now.

Didn't say it was under 1400. Just said it wasn't higher than 1400-1420.

https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/UC-Berkeley-SAT-scores-GPA

It's 1415 by the way.

LOL prep scholar is always inaccurate. Go to the Common Data Set for real info. And no random unhooked UMC kid is getting into Berkeley with a 1400.

Anonymous wrote:

I have heard of colleges rescinding offers if they know that you lied ie: it's is relatively easy to see if someone is Asian or not.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Would you be okay with job applicants of certain racial backgrounds being less likely to get jobs than equally qualified candidates of different backgrounds because the company desires diverse employees? I'm not necessarily arguing against what you're saying. Just curious.

Not the PP, but yes, I would be comfortable with the following: Two equally qualified candidates, one of whom is demographically similar to existing staff, and one of whom represents an identity not currently represented. The latter gets the job on the basis of bringing a new perspective, which can only be good for business.

To be more concrete, let’s say 1 is a Jew and 1 Indian American (or Black, or Hispanic...) Because 2% Jews are are already over represented at Harvard, you would pick against the Jewish student.

If all else is equal, then yes, you should choose the one from the underrepresented group. Was this question supposed to be some kind of a gotcha? -a Jewish person

WOW! I thought that no one could get into Harvard without at least 1420+ (at bare minimum). That makes me angry. Sorry.

Who said “all else being equal?” The H lawsuit presupposes Asians with superior stats.

Stats aren’t everything. That’s the thing. And where the Tiger mommies go wrong.

Stats aren’t everything cuz it’s “holistic.” That’s where H goes wrong. All their URM grads are holding less than perfect sheepskin cuz stats aren’t everything. It’s “holistic” where the society at large evaluate their URM graduates who can’t perform as well as UCLA or UC Berkeley grads.

Well, your behavior in this thread and the demonstration of the poor way in which you think is a big clue why your child would be passed over, assuming your child exhibits similar characteristics and tendencies. You, simply, are not elite college material. Your child probably is not, either.

It’s a fact that URMs with H degrees don’t have the same life outcome as whites.

As another PP mentioned, this is due to systemic racism.

Employers are simply discounting the Harvard premium when factoring in Harvard URMs, legacies, sports, etc.

Got data? Sounds like wishful thinking. The Harvard students in those categories have their pick of top firms/positions. Many of the legacies and athletes are well liked and know how to read. On top of that, they come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.

There’s an article posted above that shows Harvard isn’t all that. Harvard law and medical schools routinely reject Harvard undergrads.

Also check out the article posted above that shows Harvard URM’s average SAT is below 1200.

Below 1200 typically get a student into mediocre state universities. No, they DO NOT “come off as much more intelligent than average or even above-average state school kids.“

You probably scored below 1200 because if you read and comprehended the article it says that 1170 is the cutoff for URMs for Harvard to reach out to you to see if you want to apply. It’s not even the average score of URM applicants or much less of URM admits.

1170 is a pretty low bar. You can find kids with higher stats at any local community college.

At every community college? Maybe one kid. Although it seems at that score point cc to 4 year might be a better option because a kid might be a conscientious student but won’t get into UVa or VT at that range. My kid got about 200 points higher than that and the thought of them applying to Harvard would’ve been ludicrous.

1170 is pretty close to being the national SAT average. If you read the article carefully, it tells you Harvard admits more URM kids with 550 SAT math than 650 or over.

People as patently stupid as you should not be allowed to comment on anyone else’s intelligence:

“In 2009, the number of African American applicants with scores above 640 was more than double the number of applicants with scores below 550. But for the Class of 2012, there were fewer African American applicants with math scores above 640 than below 550.“

Applicants =\= admits.

The entire point of the article is criticizing Harvard for recruiting URM applicants who have no chance of being admitted.

Read again.
The stats were exposed during the litigation.

Boy you are doubling down on this. Average SAT scores for African American admits were in the 1400-1420 range. This is the data Harvard provided and was accepted by the expert for the plaintiff. See page 26

https://samv91khoyt2i553a2t1s05i-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Doc-415-1-Arcidiacono-Expert-Report.pdf

You do know that is way, way lower than the average admit, let alone the average Asian admit?