Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my understanding of the black/white wealth gap is because there is a huge concentration of wealth among a minority of affluent whites (virtually all the billionaires are white, for example), that can help skew the data greatly.

I don't doubt that there are impoverished blacks and wealthy whites, as we all know, and average white household incomes are higher than the average black household income (but so are average Asian and Hispanic household incomes, yet they aren't white either). However, the way this argument is being conducted is treating all whites as a monolith and all blacks as a monolith. There are millions and millions of whites who have nothing like 450k average household wealth, and plenty of blacks who do. Millions of whites have absolutely nothing.

The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

I can see why there is anger. But going to Uncle Sam with the begging bowl for the latest version of welfare isn't the answer.

Here is the deal, I don't agree with this $50K plan, it's stupid.

But if you really, really, really believe that black people are not denied an equal education, equal healthcare, equal jobs, equal mortgages, equal access to housing, etc... if you truly don't believe it then you just refuse to listen or you are willfully ignorant.

I'm not going to try to convince you here with a study from Harvard or Duke.

Please just educate yourself. I'm sure you are one of my friends/ neighbors who say the same damn ignorant sh*t, I'm sure deep down you are a "good person".... just educate yourself.

All these are arbitrary claims, just as your statement to "just educate yourself" is. You have decided on your narrative and you don't care about anything that doesn't fit it.

A lot of black Americans face problems, certainly. From what I can tell, it's mostly problems stemming from institutionalized poverty more than race. And there's cultural factors at play. Especially poor urban cultural factors that is disdainful of education, has out of wedlock pregnancies and doesn't marry. These are all more problematic and influential than any of the so called allegations about lack of equal education. No amount of reparations is going to change any of this. But a lot will change if attitudes towards education and child-rearing changes. But no one wants to talk about that, they'd rather blame everything on police violence and demand more freebies from the government.

Perhaps you should educate yourself? But I suspect you don't want to. You'd rather stick to the buzzwords and twitter feeds and and racial mongerers telling you you're owed something instead of having to work for it, everything instead of your own actions, your own behaviors, your own decisions.

Let's talk about your biases. You probably automatically assumed I was white, right? Probably a white woman, aka a Karen, right? But you have no idea where I come from, who I am or my life experience. And that tells me you are to eager to blindly embrace the cliches and stereotypes because you can continue to blame your failures on being disenfranchised instead of your own actions.

DP, you have so many dumb a** assumptions in your reply it is simply amazing. Because you don’t see it or believe it systemic racism does not exist or cause roadblocks. How idiotic. I’m not a trans person but I know there is widespread prejudice against them. I have never been raped but I can see the cultural dysfunctions that make sexual violence a prevalent problem in this country. Telling black folk to work like we don’t. Telling us to get married like we don’t. Tell white folk to stop having babies outside of marriage. Study after study has shown that black fathers are very involved in their children’s lives.
Yes, millions of black folk are lazy and immoral that’s why we have problems .... no racism at all to see we are all just either deluded or lying.
And no one called you Karen.
Telling us

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my understanding of the black/white wealth gap is because there is a huge concentration of wealth among a minority of affluent whites (virtually all the billionaires are white, for example), that can help skew the data greatly.

I don't doubt that there are impoverished blacks and wealthy whites, as we all know, and average white household incomes are higher than the average black household income (but so are average Asian and Hispanic household incomes, yet they aren't white either). However, the way this argument is being conducted is treating all whites as a monolith and all blacks as a monolith. There are millions and millions of whites who have nothing like 450k average household wealth, and plenty of blacks who do. Millions of whites have absolutely nothing.

The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

I can see why there is anger. But going to Uncle Sam with the begging bowl for the latest version of welfare isn't the answer.

Here is the deal, I don't agree with this $50K plan, it's stupid.

But if you really, really, really believe that black people are not denied an equal education, equal healthcare, equal jobs, equal mortgages, equal access to housing, etc... if you truly don't believe it then you just refuse to listen or you are willfully ignorant.

I'm not going to try to convince you here with a study from Harvard or Duke.

Please just educate yourself. I'm sure you are one of my friends/ neighbors who say the same damn ignorant sh*t, I'm sure deep down you are a "good person".... just educate yourself.

All these are arbitrary claims, just as your statement to "just educate yourself" is. You have decided on your narrative and you don't care about anything that doesn't fit it.

A lot of black Americans face problems, certainly. From what I can tell, it's mostly problems stemming from institutionalized poverty more than race. And there's cultural factors at play. Especially poor urban cultural factors that is disdainful of education, has out of wedlock pregnancies and doesn't marry. These are all more problematic and influential than any of the so called allegations about lack of equal education. No amount of reparations is going to change any of this. But a lot will change if attitudes towards education and child-rearing changes. But no one wants to talk about that, they'd rather blame everything on police violence and demand more freebies from the government.

Perhaps you should educate yourself? But I suspect you don't want to. You'd rather stick to the buzzwords and twitter feeds and and racial mongerers telling you you're owed something instead of having to work for it, everything instead of your own actions, your own behaviors, your own decisions.

Let's talk about your biases. You probably automatically assumed I was white, right? Probably a white woman, aka a Karen, right? But you have no idea where I come from, who I am or my life experience. And that tells me you are to eager to blindly embrace the cliches and stereotypes because you can continue to blame your failures on being disenfranchised instead of your own actions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my understanding of the black/white wealth gap is because there is a huge concentration of wealth among a minority of affluent whites (virtually all the billionaires are white, for example), that can help skew the data greatly.

I don't doubt that there are impoverished blacks and wealthy whites, as we all know, and average white household incomes are higher than the average black household income (but so are average Asian and Hispanic household incomes, yet they aren't white either). However, the way this argument is being conducted is treating all whites as a monolith and all blacks as a monolith. There are millions and millions of whites who have nothing like 450k average household wealth, and plenty of blacks who do. Millions of whites have absolutely nothing.

The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

I can see why there is anger. But going to Uncle Sam with the begging bowl for the latest version of welfare isn't the answer.

Right? We all know this. Ignoring that most of the wealth is concentrated in a few people at the top seems to be intentionally skewing the data. This study would only make sense if you looked exclusively at the bottom 90%.

The study shows medians. But I think one of the big factors is that the household definition favors married couples because it pools two adults' wealth and there are differences in black and white marriage rates (also I'm not sure how they treat biracial households).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

Nobody is saying that all white people are rich and all black people are poor. That's ridiculous and you know it. Nor is anyone saying all poor black people are poor because they are black.

What they are saying is that systemic racism is a major factor in black poverty, whereas it is not a major factor in white poverty. For instance, no white people with the means to afford it were denied the sale of a home because of their race and therefore denied the #1 method of transferring generational wealth, whereas millions of black people were. So perhaps a hypothetical poor black person in 2020 was never personally discriminated against directly, but generations of low property values in their neighborhood caused by redlining resulted in reduced funding for schools in their neighborhood which resulted in less educational attainment in their neighborhood which resulted in less college attendance in their neighborhood which resulted in reduced wages.

And the immigrant example you used is misleading. Legal immigration into the US is expensive and time consuming. The people who can go through that process are vastly more likely to already have the resources to succeed. Refugees are a different story, but there's also a reason why so many cab drivers in DC have Masters and Ph.Ds.

Anonymous wrote:
The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my understanding of the black/white wealth gap is because there is a huge concentration of wealth among a minority of affluent whites (virtually all the billionaires are white, for example), that can help skew the data greatly.

I don't doubt that there are impoverished blacks and wealthy whites, as we all know, and average white household incomes are higher than the average black household income (but so are average Asian and Hispanic household incomes, yet they aren't white either). However, the way this argument is being conducted is treating all whites as a monolith and all blacks as a monolith. There are millions and millions of whites who have nothing like 450k average household wealth, and plenty of blacks who do. Millions of whites have absolutely nothing.

The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

I can see why there is anger. But going to Uncle Sam with the begging bowl for the latest version of welfare isn't the answer.

Right? We all know this. Ignoring that most of the wealth is concentrated in a few people at the top seems to be intentionally skewing the data. This study would only make sense if you looked exclusively at the bottom 90%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my understanding of the black/white wealth gap is because there is a huge concentration of wealth among a minority of affluent whites (virtually all the billionaires are white, for example), that can help skew the data greatly.

I don't doubt that there are impoverished blacks and wealthy whites, as we all know, and average white household incomes are higher than the average black household income (but so are average Asian and Hispanic household incomes, yet they aren't white either). However, the way this argument is being conducted is treating all whites as a monolith and all blacks as a monolith. There are millions and millions of whites who have nothing like 450k average household wealth, and plenty of blacks who do. Millions of whites have absolutely nothing.

The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

I can see why there is anger. But going to Uncle Sam with the begging bowl for the latest version of welfare isn't the answer.

Here is the deal, I don't agree with this $50K plan, it's stupid.

But if you really, really, really believe that black people are not denied an equal education, equal healthcare, equal jobs, equal mortgages, equal access to housing, etc... if you truly don't believe it then you just refuse to listen or you are willfully ignorant.

I'm not going to try to convince you here with a study from Harvard or Duke.

Please just educate yourself. I'm sure you are one of my friends/ neighbors who say the same damn ignorant sh*t, I'm sure deep down you are a "good person".... just educate yourself.

Anonymous wrote:So my understanding of the black/white wealth gap is because there is a huge concentration of wealth among a minority of affluent whites (virtually all the billionaires are white, for example), that can help skew the data greatly.

I don't doubt that there are impoverished blacks and wealthy whites, as we all know, and average white household incomes are higher than the average black household income (but so are average Asian and Hispanic household incomes, yet they aren't white either). However, the way this argument is being conducted is treating all whites as a monolith and all blacks as a monolith. There are millions and millions of whites who have nothing like 450k average household wealth, and plenty of blacks who do. Millions of whites have absolutely nothing.

The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

I can see why there is anger. But going to Uncle Sam with the begging bowl for the latest version of welfare isn't the answer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

I don't believe this.

I have heard this several times, and I don’t believe it either.

It is possible, but still anecdotal. It is possible if white kid dropout and go ahead and work for minimum wages and black kid drop out choose not to work at all; then the income of the white kid will be higher than black’s kid income.

Do you trust Duke?
https://socialequity.duke.edu/portfolio-item/what-we-get-wrong-about-closing-the-racial-wealth-gap/
"At every level of educational attainment, the median wealth among black families is substantially lower than white families. White households with a bachelor’s degree or postgraduate education (such as with a Ph.D., MD, and JD) are more than three times as wealthy as black households with the same degree attainment.

Moreover, on average, a black household with a college-educated head has less wealth than a white family whose head did not even obtain a high school diploma. It takes a postgraduate education for a black family to have comparable levels of wealth to a white household with some college education or an associate degree (Hamilton et al. 2015 and Meschede et al. (2017), who use the Panel Study of Income Dynamics)."

https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/what-we-get-wrong.pdf

Figure 1 on page 6.

That is wealth, not "earnings." The data on earnings suggest otherwise:

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2010/2010015/figures/figure_29.asp

The combination of these two charts indicates that black families are even worse at saving money than white families (because we already know white families don't, and black income-wealth disparity is even higher).

Nope. Black people save more than white people.

“The finding advanced in peer reviewed articles in economic journals is clear: there is no evidence that black Americans have a lower savings rate than white Americans once household income is taken into account (Hamilton and Chiteji, 2013). For example, Maury Gittleman and Edward Wolff (2004) using data from the Panel Study on Income Dynamics (PSID), tracked the financial position of black and white families and found that, once income is controlled, if anything, black families actually have a slightly higher savings rate than their white counterparts.
21

This mild savings rate advantage is indicative of even greater thriftiness among blacks, since they typically have more kin obligations to assist low-income relatives which, further reduces the ability to save (Chiteji and Hamilton 2002; and Heflin and Patillo 2006). If anything, it appears that blacks generally live more frugal lives than whites; a study conducted by the Institute on Assets and Social Policy using the 2013 Survey of Consumer Finances found that, at comparable levels of income, whites spend 1.3 times more than blacks (Traub et al.).”

https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/what-we-get-wrong.pdf

Then where did their wealth go?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my understanding of the black/white wealth gap is because there is a huge concentration of wealth among a minority of affluent whites (virtually all the billionaires are white, for example), that can help skew the data greatly.

I don't doubt that there are impoverished blacks and wealthy whites, as we all know, and average white household incomes are higher than the average black household income (but so are average Asian and Hispanic household incomes, yet they aren't white either). However, the way this argument is being conducted is treating all whites as a monolith and all blacks as a monolith. There are millions and millions of whites who have nothing like 450k average household wealth, and plenty of blacks who do. Millions of whites have absolutely nothing.

The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

I can see why there is anger. But going to Uncle Sam with the begging bowl for the latest version of welfare isn't the answer.

Here is the deal, I don't agree with this $50K plan, it's stupid.

But if you really, really, really believe that black people are not denied an equal education, equal healthcare, equal jobs, equal mortgages, equal access to housing, etc... if you truly don't believe it then you just refuse to listen or you are willfully ignorant.

I'm not going to try to convince you here with a study from Harvard or Duke.

Please just educate yourself. I'm sure you are one of my friends/ neighbors who say the same damn ignorant sh*t, I'm sure deep down you are a "good person".... just educate yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A white high school dropout earns more than a black college grad because institutions protect white mediocrity by deferring black opportunity.

I don't believe this.

I have heard this several times, and I don’t believe it either.

It is possible, but still anecdotal. It is possible if white kid dropout and go ahead and work for minimum wages and black kid drop out choose not to work at all; then the income of the white kid will be higher than black’s kid income.

Do you trust Duke?
https://socialequity.duke.edu/portfolio-item/what-we-get-wrong-about-closing-the-racial-wealth-gap/
"At every level of educational attainment, the median wealth among black families is substantially lower than white families. White households with a bachelor’s degree or postgraduate education (such as with a Ph.D., MD, and JD) are more than three times as wealthy as black households with the same degree attainment.

Moreover, on average, a black household with a college-educated head has less wealth than a white family whose head did not even obtain a high school diploma. It takes a postgraduate education for a black family to have comparable levels of wealth to a white household with some college education or an associate degree (Hamilton et al. 2015 and Meschede et al. (2017), who use the Panel Study of Income Dynamics)."

https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/what-we-get-wrong.pdf

Figure 1 on page 6.

That is wealth, not "earnings." The data on earnings suggest otherwise:

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2010/2010015/figures/figure_29.asp

The combination of these two charts indicates that black families are even worse at saving money than white families (because we already know white families don't, and black income-wealth disparity is even higher).

Nope. Black people save more than white people.

“The finding advanced in peer reviewed articles in economic journals is clear: there is no evidence that black Americans have a lower savings rate than white Americans once household income is taken into account (Hamilton and Chiteji, 2013). For example, Maury Gittleman and Edward Wolff (2004) using data from the Panel Study on Income Dynamics (PSID), tracked the financial position of black and white families and found that, once income is controlled, if anything, black families actually have a slightly higher savings rate than their white counterparts.
21

This mild savings rate advantage is indicative of even greater thriftiness among blacks, since they typically have more kin obligations to assist low-income relatives which, further reduces the ability to save (Chiteji and Hamilton 2002; and Heflin and Patillo 2006). If anything, it appears that blacks generally live more frugal lives than whites; a study conducted by the Institute on Assets and Social Policy using the 2013 Survey of Consumer Finances found that, at comparable levels of income, whites spend 1.3 times more than blacks (Traub et al.).”

https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/what-we-get-wrong.pdf

Anonymous wrote:So my understanding of the black/white wealth gap is because there is a huge concentration of wealth among a minority of affluent whites (virtually all the billionaires are white, for example), that can help skew the data greatly.

I don't doubt that there are impoverished blacks and wealthy whites, as we all know, and average white household incomes are higher than the average black household income (but so are average Asian and Hispanic household incomes, yet they aren't white either). However, the way this argument is being conducted is treating all whites as a monolith and all blacks as a monolith. There are millions and millions of whites who have nothing like 450k average household wealth, and plenty of blacks who do. Millions of whites have absolutely nothing.

The existence of the millions of poor whites proves that being poor isn't determined by solely by race. How does a poor black person know that they are poor because they are black, or because of other factors? Millions of non-white immigrants come to this country with nothing, and despite not being white, end up with more than the average black person. So is it race that is the answer to everything or are there many other factors at play too?

I can see why there is anger. But going to Uncle Sam with the begging bowl for the latest version of welfare isn't the answer.