Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 10:20     Subject: DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:Here's a counterexample for OP's situation. I am professor who also posts a midnight due date on my final class project. All these years I did not realize that it really was an 11:59pm due time (don't ask how I got confused on that). The only reason I ever realized it is that last year, a student e-mailed me that they had submitted the assignment one minute late, got the notification that it was a late submission, and wanted to make sure I knew it was their fault and not the fault of their other group members. They volunteered to personally take the full grade penalty for the entire team.

Well, little did the students know that I don't care at all if the assignment is a few minutes late, or really even a few hours late. I didn't penalize the student or the group. BUT, I quite admired this student for accepting responsibility, reaching out to me immediately and volunteering to take one for their team without any expectation or request for leniency.

Unfortunately, it's very rare to see people taking personal responsibility anymore. More commonly, we have people like OP


This. And if I was OPs ds I would have never told my parents that not only did I wait until the last minute, I then have the professor a hard time. If ds had tried a different approach, the situation would have worked out differently.
Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 10:17     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

A cop that tickets everyone at 65.1 is not being consistent. S/he’s showing inexperience.


I think cops ticketing everyone at 65.1 is the very definition of consistent. Perhaps English is not your first language?


No cop ever gives out tickets to EVERYONE who sports over 65 mph. Maybe you are not an American to know this. That’s a rookie mistake trying to ticket EVERYONE who goes over 65.


To go back to the example earlier in the thread, the problem with "discretion" is that it can be abused. I don't think everyone who goes 65.1 should be ticketed, but we know from data around traffic stops that Black and brown Americans are exponentially more likely to be pulled over for going 67 in a 65, or for having a tail-light out. These are pretext stops. Then, Black and brown Americans are more likely to have their cars searched after one of those pretext stops, even though whites are more likely to have contraband.

I actually prefer the professor's system with no discretion, since discretion can be and is abused.
Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 09:10     Subject: DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:Here's a counterexample for OP's situation. I am professor who also posts a midnight due date on my final class project. All these years I did not realize that it really was an 11:59pm due time (don't ask how I got confused on that). The only reason I ever realized it is that last year, a student e-mailed me that they had submitted the assignment one minute late, got the notification that it was a late submission, and wanted to make sure I knew it was their fault and not the fault of their other group members. They volunteered to personally take the full grade penalty for the entire team.

Well, little did the students know that I don't care at all if the assignment is a few minutes late, or really even a few hours late. I didn't penalize the student or the group. BUT, I quite admired this student for accepting responsibility, reaching out to me immediately and volunteering to take one for their team without any expectation or request for leniency.

Unfortunately, it's very rare to see people taking personal responsibility anymore. More commonly, we have people like OP


Also, maybe this has been said (I didn't read through this entire thread), but does OP really think that "higher ups" can do anything? Did you actually think professors have a boss? We have a department chair and dean that we elect, and there's very little they can do about issues like this. I'd have to go on some kind of insane racist rant in the middle of class or have a complete mental breakdown and fail the entire class for the school to step in and do anything. Professors are, to a large extent, their own bosses.
Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 09:06     Subject: DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Here's a counterexample for OP's situation. I am professor who also posts a midnight due date on my final class project. All these years I did not realize that it really was an 11:59pm due time (don't ask how I got confused on that). The only reason I ever realized it is that last year, a student e-mailed me that they had submitted the assignment one minute late, got the notification that it was a late submission, and wanted to make sure I knew it was their fault and not the fault of their other group members. They volunteered to personally take the full grade penalty for the entire team.

Well, little did the students know that I don't care at all if the assignment is a few minutes late, or really even a few hours late. I didn't penalize the student or the group. BUT, I quite admired this student for accepting responsibility, reaching out to me immediately and volunteering to take one for their team without any expectation or request for leniency.

Unfortunately, it's very rare to see people taking personal responsibility anymore. More commonly, we have people like OP
Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 09:01     Subject: DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Stop comparing this to speeding or filing taxes. It's neither of those things.

The student has probably heard "don't wait until the last minute" hundreds of times in their life, but they've just finally learned the lesson.
Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 08:11     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Another professor here. Get over it. Your kid messed up. What is the point of a due date if it is not enforced? And I doubt many students also had the same issue. I am teaching right now and just had a test due at 11:59pm. The latest submission was 11:52pm. Your kid has no right to argue.

All these kids running to higher ups is exactly why our society is declining. The entitlement is ridiculous. Tell your kid to not procrastinate and move on.


Not OP but the professor not the student messed up. He/she can either own up now or just quietly accept the papers and figure how to use the functionality for the next paper.

And as a parent I would call up a shame a professor and complain to the school over this because the professor won’t do anything until a “peer” calls him out in it. He/ she doesn’t view the students as adults.



Dear "Peer"



Love, Professor
Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 07:34     Subject: DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
These posts critical of the kid and parent are annoyingly off base. The professor messed up. He or she misprogrammed the software to make it inconsistent with the instructions given. Or, stated differently, the professor gave incorrect instructions.

Does anybody think that because taxes must be filed (in most years) by April 15 that you can be penalized for filing them on April 15? Does anybody think that you can get ticketed for going 55 mph in 55 mph zone?

I would say no. That's not how people speak English. That's not how the IRS, the state police, or courts operate, and this point comes up literally thousands of times a day every day in real world settings like those. The professor's choice of 11:59 as the deadline made it seem that the professor understood these conventions and did not indicate that the professor was deviating from them.

I agree that the kid would have been prudent to turn in his homework earlier--after all, people encounter internet connectivity problems all the time--but that's really irrelevant here because the kid actually did turn in the work on time.

I also agree that the world would be a better place if kids were more independent, but I think many (probably most) parents would appreciate being consulted before a kid went to the administration to complain. I also can understand that many kids who got screwed in this way would seek parental advice on how to respond. Hopefully the result of the dialogue would be that, if the kid decided to complain, the communication to the administration would be written in a measured and respectful way.

I also disagree with those who say a grade in one class is irrelevant. It might be irrelevant but it might not be. Is it the difference between graduating with or without honors? Is it a key class that particular graduate programs are likely to consider? I can imagine scenarios in which a particular grade is important.

Good for the kid for speaking up.

Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 07:14     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:Another professor here. Get over it. Your kid messed up. What is the point of a due date if it is not enforced? And I doubt many students also had the same issue. I am teaching right now and just had a test due at 11:59pm. The latest submission was 11:52pm. Your kid has no right to argue.

All these kids running to higher ups is exactly why our society is declining. The entitlement is ridiculous. Tell your kid to not procrastinate and move on.


Not OP but the professor not the student messed up. He/she can either own up now or just quietly accept the papers and figure how to use the functionality for the next paper.

And as a parent I would call up a shame a professor and complain to the school over this because the professor won’t do anything until a “peer” calls him out in it. He/ she doesn’t view the students as adults.
Anonymous
Post 06/22/2020 06:57     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Another professor here. Get over it. Your kid messed up. What is the point of a due date if it is not enforced? And I doubt many students also had the same issue. I am teaching right now and just had a test due at 11:59pm. The latest submission was 11:52pm. Your kid has no right to argue.

All these kids running to higher ups is exactly why our society is declining. The entitlement is ridiculous. Tell your kid to not procrastinate and move on.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2020 23:57     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Another professor here. This whole thread is so funny to me. I can't believe a parent would take the time to post here about this. As PPs have mentioned, this professor is probably using Blackboard. That's what my university uses (I hate it, but we don't get to choose). When setting deadlines in Bb the options are limited. You can't set a deadline as 11:59:59 pm. You get a drop down menu with half hour increments, along with End of Day. To Bb, End of Day is 11:59:00. Anything that comes in after that is automatically marked late.

I use 11:59 pm as the deadline for my courses, because midnight is potentially confusing to some students. However, I make it very clear in my syllabi and all communications to them that the deadline is BY, NOT AT, 11:59 pm and that Bb will mark them late if they submit at 11:59:20. I tell them to avoid that whole situation by not waiting until the very last minute to submit things. That being said, if someone does submit something a few seconds or even a couple hours late, I generally let it slide unless they do it 2-3 times (at which time I email them saying that I've noticed they're having trouble turning work in late, and ask if there's anything I can help with... but also a warning that late work will be treated in line with the syllabus policy going forward). But I see my job as being more about making sure students learn the course content than "preparing them for the real world"... especially during a pandemic. I used to be a bit more strict, but experience has taught me that if I treat my students as humans with complex lives, they will respect me back. Of course, being a woman has played a role in this. As another PP mentioned, there are data showing bias in student evals of female profs. A hardass male professor is "respected"; a hardass female professor is "b*tchy and on a power trip".

This professor needs to warn students up front about how Bb treats deadlines if they want to be a hardass about enforcement. I wonder if (s)he is fairly new to teaching. Most of us start out strict because we think we need to do it in order to be taken seriously. But then we start to relax for the reasons I described above. It is just not worth battling with students over 30 seconds and dealing with higher ups being involved due to grade appeals etc.

OP, definitely do not get involved, and tell your son to tread carefully if this professor is in a field/department related to his chosen career path. He may end up wanting a letter of recommendation at some point, and a prominent professor's letter can carry a lot of weight. If your son gets a reputation as a whiner, it will be hard for him to get strong letters from this professor or others in the department. If this late assignment ends up having a significant negative impact on this final grade (e.g. the difference between an A and a B in the course), there should be a formal grade appeal process he can follow. The appeal process generally involves letting the student and professor each meet with a faculty committee to provide evidence and give their side of the story, with a final decision being made by the committee.


"I can't believe a parent would take the time to post here about this" Your post seems even longer than original post haha


Touche! What I really meant was that I can't believe that a parent would be bothered enough to post about this, not so much the time factor. But I'm not sure why I am surprised anymore at the level of involvement some parents here seem to have in their college students' education. When I interact with my students, I literally never think about their parents unless the student specifically mentions them. In my mind they are adults in charge of their own education and life choices, even if their parents are providing the funds. My parents paid for the part of my tuition/room and board not covered by scholarships, but they wouldn't have been able to tell you anything about what courses I was taking or anything about the professors. I don't recall complaining to them even about a couple of really mean professors who did a whole lot worse than being nitpicky about deadlines.

I did write a long response, haha. But it took me no time to type it. I guess these things are near and dear to my heart. LOL.


Haven’t read responses except this professor’s interesting replies and helpful context re: Bb time stamps. It is what it is, OP. A tough life lesson. Hopefully “marked late” doesn’t mean “automatic F” but rather something more proportionate like a loss of a letter grade or
Something.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2020 23:51     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Another professor here. This whole thread is so funny to me. I can't believe a parent would take the time to post here about this. As PPs have mentioned, this professor is probably using Blackboard. That's what my university uses (I hate it, but we don't get to choose). When setting deadlines in Bb the options are limited. You can't set a deadline as 11:59:59 pm. You get a drop down menu with half hour increments, along with End of Day. To Bb, End of Day is 11:59:00. Anything that comes in after that is automatically marked late.

I use 11:59 pm as the deadline for my courses, because midnight is potentially confusing to some students. However, I make it very clear in my syllabi and all communications to them that the deadline is BY, NOT AT, 11:59 pm and that Bb will mark them late if they submit at 11:59:20. I tell them to avoid that whole situation by not waiting until the very last minute to submit things. That being said, if someone does submit something a few seconds or even a couple hours late, I generally let it slide unless they do it 2-3 times (at which time I email them saying that I've noticed they're having trouble turning work in late, and ask if there's anything I can help with... but also a warning that late work will be treated in line with the syllabus policy going forward). But I see my job as being more about making sure students learn the course content than "preparing them for the real world"... especially during a pandemic. I used to be a bit more strict, but experience has taught me that if I treat my students as humans with complex lives, they will respect me back. Of course, being a woman has played a role in this. As another PP mentioned, there are data showing bias in student evals of female profs. A hardass male professor is "respected"; a hardass female professor is "b*tchy and on a power trip".

This professor needs to warn students up front about how Bb treats deadlines if they want to be a hardass about enforcement. I wonder if (s)he is fairly new to teaching. Most of us start out strict because we think we need to do it in order to be taken seriously. But then we start to relax for the reasons I described above. It is just not worth battling with students over 30 seconds and dealing with higher ups being involved due to grade appeals etc.

OP, definitely do not get involved, and tell your son to tread carefully if this professor is in a field/department related to his chosen career path. He may end up wanting a letter of recommendation at some point, and a prominent professor's letter can carry a lot of weight. If your son gets a reputation as a whiner, it will be hard for him to get strong letters from this professor or others in the department. If this late assignment ends up having a significant negative impact on this final grade (e.g. the difference between an A and a B in the course), there should be a formal grade appeal process he can follow. The appeal process generally involves letting the student and professor each meet with a faculty committee to provide evidence and give their side of the story, with a final decision being made by the committee.


"I can't believe a parent would take the time to post here about this" Your post seems even longer than original post haha


Touche! What I really meant was that I can't believe that a parent would be bothered enough to post about this, not so much the time factor. But I'm not sure why I am surprised anymore at the level of involvement some parents here seem to have in their college students' education. When I interact with my students, I literally never think about their parents unless the student specifically mentions them. In my mind they are adults in charge of their own education and life choices, even if their parents are providing the funds. My parents paid for the part of my tuition/room and board not covered by scholarships, but they wouldn't have been able to tell you anything about what courses I was taking or anything about the professors. I don't recall complaining to them even about a couple of really mean professors who did a whole lot worse than being nitpicky about deadlines.

I did write a long response, haha. But it took me no time to type it. I guess these things are near and dear to my heart. LOL.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2020 23:50     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

A cop that tickets everyone at 65.1 is not being consistent. S/he’s showing inexperience.


I think cops ticketing everyone at 65.1 is the very definition of consistent. Perhaps English is not your first language?


No cop ever gives out tickets to EVERYONE who sports over 65 mph. Maybe you are not an American to know this. That’s a rookie mistake trying to ticket EVERYONE who goes over 65.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2020 21:49     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:

A cop that tickets everyone at 65.1 is not being consistent. S/he’s showing inexperience.


I think cops ticketing everyone at 65.1 is the very definition of consistent. Perhaps English is not your first language?
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2020 20:38     Subject: Re:DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Lessons learned:
The professor is an asshole for not programming in a few minutes leeway for such situation.
There are assholes everywhere and this is a useful life lesson.
Let the kid deal with it.
Something similar happened to me; deal with it; in the end it doesn't matter.


What’s the point of a deadline then?



I'm sure you never exceed the speed limit either.


A cop that tickets everyone at 65.1 is not being consistent. S/he’s showing inexperience.
Anonymous
Post 06/21/2020 20:29     Subject: DS's professor saying assignment submitted at 11:59pm is late
I am sorry OP the prof is an asshole and I hope karma gets them.