magrathean
02/24/2020 19:47
Subject: Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote: I have personally been abused by students and have been told by admin that I must have done something to provoke them and also that what happened probably wasn't as bad as I thought it was and just needed to sit down with the child to work out why they felt angry enough to throw something at me or call me derogatory names.
I concur a million fold! Have had this happen to me on several occasions. Student threw a desk at me, assistant principal's first question wasn't "are you ok?" but "what did you do to provoke the student?" Another time a student "cross checked" me out of his way; principal wanted to do nothing, gave me the "kids will be kids" excuse. I managed to get a one day in class suspension for that incident when my question back to the principle was "so you are saying you cannot provide me with a safe work environment?" The principle (correctly) read that for the legal threat it was.
So by MCPS standards, neither a student throwing a desk at me, nor another shoving me out a door were considered serious. These are the sort of "minor" infractions MCPS lets slip. My read of the article is just because one "Byron Johns, chair of the Montgomery County chapter of the NAACP Parents’ Council" CLAIMS the events are minor, doesn't necessarily mean they are minor. Or maybe he just used to pistol-whip his teachers back in the day, sees nothing wrong with these little angels tossing desks, breaking chromebooks, and so forth.
Anonymous
02/24/2020 18:54
Subject: Re:Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's called poor parenting and MCPS isn't social services as much as they try to be. Bring back schools for kids with behavioral issues. Staff it with mental health experts, highly trained teachers and social services personnel. Those kids get the extra support they need and kids in general schools can learn without distractions.
There are already schools like that. And mental health issues aren't usually due to poor parenting unless your parent is from Mommie Dearest or something.
A lot of people posting here are delusional. This isn't a crisis. It's too bad they aren't doing things the way you think they should work, but based on evidence these methods are effective whereas these old-time notions aren't.
With all due respect, do you work in a MCPS school? If this were five years ago I would agree with you. It used to be isolated students who needed more than the neighborhood schools were able to provide. These last five years have turned our schools upside down. I have packs of 10 year olds running our school. There were 6 fights last week alone...in an elementary school. One teacher was left bleeding as a result of one fight. The last one on Friday took two male upper grade teachers to hold the kids back as the more petite female teachers were basically tossed aside. I don't even work in a Title 1 school so who knows what's going on in other parts of the district.
Wow. Where do you work? Gaithersburg? Silver Spring?
It honestly sounds like the teachers are so bad the kids just don't respect them. Perhaps, the county needs to hire more effective teachers.
I agree. I volunteer with ED classes and the teachers are constantly setting off the kids in our class. Guess what, his mom is back in jail, he's having a bad day... don't yell at him for not picking up his feet when he walks. FFS!
What do you mean by "setting off" ? We're talking about older kids (middle school+ or even upper elementary) who set off the classroom in a massive way by making it impossible to teach, not someone's gait.
I'm talking about, them talking back to a teacher. I am talking about upper elementary and middle.
Most teachers are not trained to deal with kids with emotional issues and their actions set off kids to talk back and be disruptive. Even when warned, it's a bad day, they are so fricken nit picky. and yes, it's little things like.. pick up your feet, sit up straight, move your backpack... like come on, let it go... some kids are emotionally fragile and some teachers are nags and it sets kids off.
So is it understandable for a student to curse at a teacher for doing a roll call? That's exactly what happened to my kid's teacher the other day. She was doing this and one of the kids in her class told her to "F*ck off. Why you staring at me." Bottomline dealing with these kids are draining and I don't know how teachers can deal with this behavior on a daily basis. THen you wonder why there's high teacher turnover in these schools. I remember in the early 90s no one was allowed to talk to teachers this way. I don't know why teachers are no longer empowered to discipline their students. What a hot mess. WHere the hell did common sense go in this county??
You're not going to get any accountability or common sense in a school district run by progressive social justice types. Honestly, this county is doomed.
Anonymous
02/24/2020 17:44
Subject: Re:Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's called poor parenting and MCPS isn't social services as much as they try to be. Bring back schools for kids with behavioral issues. Staff it with mental health experts, highly trained teachers and social services personnel. Those kids get the extra support they need and kids in general schools can learn without distractions.
There are already schools like that. And mental health issues aren't usually due to poor parenting unless your parent is from Mommie Dearest or something.
A lot of people posting here are delusional. This isn't a crisis. It's too bad they aren't doing things the way you think they should work, but based on evidence these methods are effective whereas these old-time notions aren't.
With all due respect, do you work in a MCPS school? If this were five years ago I would agree with you. It used to be isolated students who needed more than the neighborhood schools were able to provide. These last five years have turned our schools upside down. I have packs of 10 year olds running our school. There were 6 fights last week alone...in an elementary school. One teacher was left bleeding as a result of one fight. The last one on Friday took two male upper grade teachers to hold the kids back as the more petite female teachers were basically tossed aside. I don't even work in a Title 1 school so who knows what's going on in other parts of the district.
Wow. Where do you work? Gaithersburg? Silver Spring?
It honestly sounds like the teachers are so bad the kids just don't respect them. Perhaps, the county needs to hire more effective teachers.
I agree. I volunteer with ED classes and the teachers are constantly setting off the kids in our class. Guess what, his mom is back in jail, he's having a bad day... don't yell at him for not picking up his feet when he walks. FFS!
What do you mean by "setting off" ? We're talking about older kids (middle school+ or even upper elementary) who set off the classroom in a massive way by making it impossible to teach, not someone's gait.
I'm talking about, them talking back to a teacher. I am talking about upper elementary and middle.
Most teachers are not trained to deal with kids with emotional issues and their actions set off kids to talk back and be disruptive. Even when warned, it's a bad day, they are so fricken nit picky. and yes, it's little things like.. pick up your feet, sit up straight, move your backpack... like come on, let it go... some kids are emotionally fragile and some teachers are nags and it sets kids off.
So is it understandable for a student to curse at a teacher for doing a roll call? That's exactly what happened to my kid's teacher the other day. She was doing this and one of the kids in her class told her to "F*ck off. Why you staring at me." Bottomline dealing with these kids are draining and I don't know how teachers can deal with this behavior on a daily basis. THen you wonder why there's high teacher turnover in these schools. I remember in the early 90s no one was allowed to talk to teachers this way. I don't know why teachers are no longer empowered to discipline their students. What a hot mess. WHere the hell did common sense go in this county??
Anonymous
02/24/2020 17:37
Subject: Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Restorative Justice = just another way for home values in the W school districts to increase. The rich get richer...
The segregated schools?
W means wealthy and white.
Anonymous
02/24/2020 17:27
Subject: Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Restorative Justice = just another way for home values in the W school districts to increase. The rich get richer...
The segregated schools?
The schools where kids don't have to deal with disruptive students taking away their opportunity to learn and schools where the best teachers go because they get to actually teach instead of being required to moderate peer mediation sessions with the same 4 kids 10 times each week.
Anonymous
02/24/2020 16:49
Subject: Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Restorative Justice = just another way for home values in the W school districts to increase. The rich get richer...
The segregated schools?
Anonymous
02/24/2020 16:33
Subject: Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Restorative Justice = just another way for home values in the W school districts to increase. The rich get richer...
Anonymous
02/24/2020 16:22
Subject: Re:Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's called poor parenting and MCPS isn't social services as much as they try to be. Bring back schools for kids with behavioral issues. Staff it with mental health experts, highly trained teachers and social services personnel. Those kids get the extra support they need and kids in general schools can learn without distractions.
There are already schools like that. And mental health issues aren't usually due to poor parenting unless your parent is from Mommie Dearest or something.
A lot of people posting here are delusional. This isn't a crisis. It's too bad they aren't doing things the way you think they should work, but based on evidence these methods are effective whereas these old-time notions aren't.
With all due respect, do you work in a MCPS school? If this were five years ago I would agree with you. It used to be isolated students who needed more than the neighborhood schools were able to provide. These last five years have turned our schools upside down. I have packs of 10 year olds running our school. There were 6 fights last week alone...in an elementary school. One teacher was left bleeding as a result of one fight. The last one on Friday took two male upper grade teachers to hold the kids back as the more petite female teachers were basically tossed aside. I don't even work in a Title 1 school so who knows what's going on in other parts of the district.
Wow. Where do you work? Gaithersburg? Silver Spring?
It honestly sounds like the teachers are so bad the kids just don't respect them. Perhaps, the county needs to hire more effective teachers.
I agree. I volunteer with ED classes and the teachers are constantly setting off the kids in our class. Guess what, his mom is back in jail, he's having a bad day... don't yell at him for not picking up his feet when he walks. FFS!
What do you mean by "setting off" ? We're talking about older kids (middle school+ or even upper elementary) who set off the classroom in a massive way by making it impossible to teach, not someone's gait.
I'm talking about, them talking back to a teacher. I am talking about upper elementary and middle.
Most teachers are not trained to deal with kids with emotional issues and their actions set off kids to talk back and be disruptive. Even when warned, it's a bad day, they are so fricken nit picky. and yes, it's little things like.. pick up your feet, sit up straight, move your backpack... like come on, let it go... some kids are emotionally fragile and some teachers are nags and it sets kids off.
Woah, now we need teachers to either get trained on emotional issues AND cultural issues AND make sure to limit their expectations to ZERO for kid's behavior. Got it
Yes. I expect teachers to know their students and understand emotional issue and lower their standard for the kid who just visited their mom in the hospital who had brain surgery or the kid who's father has PTSD from his 7th tour.
If you can't create a school that has teacher that know their kids you will have problems.
And not nitpicking a kid is not = Zero expectation.
Anonymous
02/24/2020 15:36
Subject: Re:Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:discipline issues are correlated with class which is correlated with race
Common sense knows this. Trailer parks in Kentucky with all poor white kids know this. But there is no race card to fall back on. Everyone has an excuse
Anonymous
02/24/2020 15:35
Subject: Re:Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/heatherknight/article/Lord-of-the-Flies-Attacks-bullying-chaos-15055098.php
A profile of another school struggling with budget cuts and how to implement restorative justice.
Yeah and look at the fallout.
Student walkout
It wasn’t fair.
It was racially charged
We need more emotional support
We need nurses and therapists for free
The entitlement is unreal
Never the kids fault
If they a minority you can’t get mad
We need free things
Parents aren’t obligated to help “they just can’t”
But the teachers and administration? Get your act together.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/student-walkout-at-aptos-highlights-concerns-about-bullying/
Anonymous
02/24/2020 12:24
Subject: Re:Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
discipline issues are correlated with class which is correlated with race
Anonymous
02/24/2020 12:14
Subject: Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They need a special school for kids that don't belong in a mainstream classroom. I'd like to think these are extreme cases. My kids go to a focus school and have never had experiences like the ones on this thread.
What grades? Dig a little deeper. Seriously. Ask your kids if there are any kids who have been in fights or act out by yelling in class. You might find out more about what is actually going on.
Or, maybe you are super fortunate and don’t have any issues at your school. Which I find surprising, because this seems to come up in Focus Schools and Title 1 schools AND the W schools.
+1, honestly. I would have said there were no such issues at our Focus School back when my kids were still in early elementary, and before I had a boy in upper elementary, but now I'm concerned. The students haven't changed, but we lost a veteran principal who had basically been able to hold back the Restorative Justice tide, and the the difference has been disheartening.
I want restorative justice to work, and I am deeply concerned about the schools-to-prison pipeline, but the move away from accountability for kids at our school is directly tied to the introduction of this new program.
This for sure.
My kid, at a Focus school, didn't have any really terrible issues until 3rd grade, but even that was pretty normal stuff. By 4th and 5th grade, she had witnessed fights, and the kids learned which students you really just had to stay away from because even the teachers couldn't really control them. My kid witnessed a fight in PE, and the kid was back in the classroom the next day. And, then by MS, there are fights in the lunch room several times a month. It's a lot to handle, and I can't imagine being a teacher in this kind of environment.
This is NOT about teachers not being able to control a classroom. This is way beyond that.
Anonymous
02/24/2020 11:51
Subject: Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They need a special school for kids that don't belong in a mainstream classroom. I'd like to think these are extreme cases. My kids go to a focus school and have never had experiences like the ones on this thread.
What grades? Dig a little deeper. Seriously. Ask your kids if there are any kids who have been in fights or act out by yelling in class. You might find out more about what is actually going on.
Or, maybe you are super fortunate and don’t have any issues at your school. Which I find surprising, because this seems to come up in Focus Schools and Title 1 schools AND the W schools.
+1, honestly. I would have said there were no such issues at our Focus School back when my kids were still in early elementary, and before I had a boy in upper elementary, but now I'm concerned. The students haven't changed, but we lost a veteran principal who had basically been able to hold back the Restorative Justice tide, and the the difference has been disheartening.
I want restorative justice to work, and I am deeply concerned about the schools-to-prison pipeline, but the move away from accountability for kids at our school is directly tied to the introduction of this new program.
Anonymous
02/24/2020 11:48
Subject: Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:They need a special school for kids that don't belong in a mainstream classroom. I'd like to think these are extreme cases. My kids go to a focus school and have never had experiences like the ones on this thread.
My sister teaches at a title 1 school and has been assaulted 4 times this year. She has several high needs students including 2 who are violent and explosive. Her principal minimizes, enables and covers up. My sister is a 20 year veteran teacher. She knows how to control a classroom, but she has no admin support. Her situation is not unusual. We believe the principal stacked her room with these problem kids because she has handled suchh kids well in the past and also to corral them in one place. The parents of typical kids in the class DO NOT complain. Parents of kids in other classes would think it is a peaceful, well run school. It's not.
Anonymous
02/24/2020 11:40
Subject: Re:Get ready for even less detentons/suspensions and more restorative justice
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's called poor parenting and MCPS isn't social services as much as they try to be. Bring back schools for kids with behavioral issues. Staff it with mental health experts, highly trained teachers and social services personnel. Those kids get the extra support they need and kids in general schools can learn without distractions.
There are already schools like that. And mental health issues aren't usually due to poor parenting unless your parent is from Mommie Dearest or something.
A lot of people posting here are delusional. This isn't a crisis. It's too bad they aren't doing things the way you think they should work, but based on evidence these methods are effective whereas these old-time notions aren't.
With all due respect, do you work in a MCPS school? If this were five years ago I would agree with you. It used to be isolated students who needed more than the neighborhood schools were able to provide. These last five years have turned our schools upside down. I have packs of 10 year olds running our school. There were 6 fights last week alone...in an elementary school. One teacher was left bleeding as a result of one fight. The last one on Friday took two male upper grade teachers to hold the kids back as the more petite female teachers were basically tossed aside. I don't even work in a Title 1 school so who knows what's going on in other parts of the district.
Wow. Where do you work? Gaithersburg? Silver Spring?
It honestly sounds like the teachers are so bad the kids just don't respect them. Perhaps, the county needs to hire more effective teachers.
I agree. I volunteer with ED classes and the teachers are constantly setting off the kids in our class. Guess what, his mom is back in jail, he's having a bad day... don't yell at him for not picking up his feet when he walks. FFS!
What do you mean by "setting off" ? We're talking about older kids (middle school+ or even upper elementary) who set off the classroom in a massive way by making it impossible to teach, not someone's gait.
I'm talking about, them talking back to a teacher. I am talking about upper elementary and middle.
Most teachers are not trained to deal with kids with emotional issues and their actions set off kids to talk back and be disruptive. Even when warned, it's a bad day, they are so fricken nit picky. and yes, it's little things like.. pick up your feet, sit up straight, move your backpack... like come on, let it go... some kids are emotionally fragile and some teachers are nags and it sets kids off.
Woah, now we need teachers to either get trained on emotional issues AND cultural issues AND make sure to limit their expectations to ZERO for kid's behavior. Got it