Anonymous
06/04/2019 15:11
Subject: Re:Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:any chance we can come full circle? Who thinks that all of the existing DA and ECNL teams will be around in 5 years? will there be consolidation or not? I think there will, even if it's consolidation by certain clubs becoming "destination" in this new age and others becoming less "elite." My vote is that FCV will remain a destination and Arlington will become a destination. BRYC and Mclean will no longer be destinations. MU will get absorbed into some larger club. I don't know much about Loudoun or VDA or the whole Maryland side of the river, although Bethesda/Mclean and Balt Armour/MD United may be stealing each others' players. My kids will be long gone by 5 years from now, but it will be interesting to see what happens.
Everything you said has as good a chance of happening as anything anyone else would suggest.
With FCV's move to Springfield they are now in a similar situation with Arlington as they have currently with Loudoun. I just don't see FCV really being a destination beyond 3 years form now. I see them as a very strong competitive option but they will be more surrounded than ever before.
Arlington is pretty landlocked with their player pool and with DA they have retention on their side. They are a better version of Loudoun than Loudoun is.
Loudoun will get stronger with their only real competition for players being VDA and McLean. What will determine Loudoun's success is how well they truly develop going forward. They have always relied on a huge player pool to get easy CCL wins in the past but those days are now over.
McLean will keep on keeping on as long as Clyde is there. They need to start looking for their next Rainmaker TD to stay competitive in a crowded market.
BRYC is likely the most vulnerable of the old guard. They lost Larry Best. They went their weird no competitive games route at the younger ages.
Metro United to new to tell. Are they buying time to sell? Are they gonna make a real run? Can they improve enough to start to change peoples perception? If they can hold on they could begin to gain some ground on players from Loudoun and Fairfax who want DA but not Springfield or Arlington.
The only clubs who geographically are sitting pretty are Loudoun, Arlington and VDA all the others are in a dog fight being on top of one another.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 15:05
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:
Your top 5 player argument is false and it is getting old.
There are 333 D1 womens soccer programs (though not all fully funded). https://www.ncsasports.org/womens-soccer/division-1-colleges
The average roster size is 29.
The average recruiting class is 7.
333 D1 schools * 7 recruits per class = 2331
There are 52 ECNL clubs with a U18 team (from what I could find...this may be less)
There are 72 DA teams with a U18/19 team.
Genuinely curious, where did you get your numbers?
Going to the ECNL standings, there are 94 U18/19 teams plus 44 U18/19 composite teams, so you're way low there but looking at the DA standings, there are only 59 active U18/19 teams so you're way high there.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 14:52
Subject: Re:Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A top five player is going to get looked at first in all accounts.
A top 5 player is a player who starts AND plays 70-100% of a game.
A sub player will not. A starter who only plays 50% of the game is also not a core player and has not separated themselves enough from the bench but they are supporting players and role players.
A sub on FCV may be as good as a top five player on another team.
Both kids will get recruited as you pointed out.
Between the two players at the two different clubs, one kid had more fun playing soccer as a core player and a leader.
It is always more beneficial to be a core player than a supporting or role player.
Nice job of walking it back while finding some other opinion only argument.
Guess we are all lucky there are SSSOOOOOOO many "Elite" clubs in the area.
What was walked back?
Top five players get recruited. Period.
Other players also get recruited
Anonymous
06/04/2019 14:51
Subject: Re:Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
any chance we can come full circle? Who thinks that all of the existing DA and ECNL teams will be around in 5 years? will there be consolidation or not? I think there will, even if it's consolidation by certain clubs becoming "destination" in this new age and others becoming less "elite." My vote is that FCV will remain a destination and Arlington will become a destination. BRYC and Mclean will no longer be destinations. MU will get absorbed into some larger club. I don't know much about Loudoun or VDA or the whole Maryland side of the river, although Bethesda/Mclean and Balt Armour/MD United may be stealing each others' players. My kids will be long gone by 5 years from now, but it will be interesting to see what happens.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 14:41
Subject: Re:Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:A top five player is going to get looked at first in all accounts.
A top 5 player is a player who starts AND plays 70-100% of a game.
A sub player will not. A starter who only plays 50% of the game is also not a core player and has not separated themselves enough from the bench but they are supporting players and role players.
A sub on FCV may be as good as a top five player on another team.
Both kids will get recruited as you pointed out.
Between the two players at the two different clubs, one kid had more fun playing soccer as a core player and a leader.
It is always more beneficial to be a core player than a supporting or role player.
Nice job of walking it back while finding some other opinion only argument.
Guess we are all lucky there are SSSOOOOOOO many "Elite" clubs in the area.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 14:20
Subject: Re:Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
A top five player is going to get looked at first in all accounts.
A top 5 player is a player who starts AND plays 70-100% of a game.
A sub player will not. A starter who only plays 50% of the game is also not a core player and has not separated themselves enough from the bench but they are supporting players and role players.
A sub on FCV may be as good as a top five player on another team.
Both kids will get recruited as you pointed out.
Between the two players at the two different clubs, one kid had more fun playing soccer as a core player and a leader.
It is always more beneficial to be a core player than a supporting or role player.
A top 5 player is a player who starts AND plays 70-100% of a game.
A sub player will not. A starter who only plays 50% of the game is also not a core player and has not separated themselves enough from the bench but they are supporting players and role players.
A sub on FCV may be as good as a top five player on another team.
Both kids will get recruited as you pointed out.
Between the two players at the two different clubs, one kid had more fun playing soccer as a core player and a leader.
It is always more beneficial to be a core player than a supporting or role player.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 14:12
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let's be serious. The top teams in DA and ECNL are probably the best teams around but the bottom half could easily get outplayed by the top EDP/NPL teams. The U14 MRM Rush team that just moved to Bethesda, and Pipeline, routinely beat ECNL teams in the same age group.
DD plays on one of the better ECNL teams in the area and this is probably right. Dilution is real.
Yes. And the people complaining about dilution are the same people that don't want to drive further than 10 minutes to training. Ergo the need for a ton of "elite" clubs. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
Because there is no reason to drive by 4-5 clubs to play in the same showcases and in front of the same college coaches.
Dilution is a reason.
The number of "elite" clubs in the area should be cut in half for them to be truly "elite".
I don't know that I agree. There are talented kids all over the DMV, including Baltimore. Many play for non-DA/ECNL teams. Now that the Baltimore Armour is an option for Baltimore and area kids, the clubs in that area, namely Pipeline, Celtic and Premier Navy will remain competitive. They will lose a few players but that will provide opportunity from strong kids at smaller clubs to step up. Who will get hurt in all of this is the small clubs in the area. If you are at Alexandria and want to the highest level, you will jump ship for BRYC, Arlington or McLean. A player in Frederick can hit Loudoun, FCV, Bethesda or Baltimore Armour in 30-45 minutes. In both cases, Alexandria and Frederick suffer but they will likely replace those kids with players from smaller clubs.
Which is why you'll see college recruiting classes have players that WERE NOT in DA or ECNL, although most were all stars on their HS and lower level club teams. They will usually have some ODP Region history or other minor accolades as well.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 14:10
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let's be serious. The top teams in DA and ECNL are probably the best teams around but the bottom half could easily get outplayed by the top EDP/NPL teams. The U14 MRM Rush team that just moved to Bethesda, and Pipeline, routinely beat ECNL teams in the same age group.
DD plays on one of the better ECNL teams in the area and this is probably right. Dilution is real.
Yes. And the people complaining about dilution are the same people that don't want to drive further than 10 minutes to training. Ergo the need for a ton of "elite" clubs. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
Because there is no reason to drive by 4-5 clubs to play in the same showcases and in front of the same college coaches.
Dilution is a reason.
The number of "elite" clubs in the area should be cut in half for them to be truly "elite".
No real reason to do that either. These are not "elite" leagues, they are showcase leagues. Understand that and the importance of wins and losses declines.
Wow. Brilliant. I don't remember saying anything about elite be determined by wins and losses.
So coaches have unlimited time and money to visit every club in every geographic area to find all the players? There is no advantage to a consolidation of talent for those coaches? And what about the top players? Is there no benefit to playing and training with a roster full of top players?
I am trying to ask these questions with as little snark as possible but the content of your post makes that difficult.
Both ECNL and DA showcases draw the same college coaches. ECNL showcases may draw more regionally among the smaller D1 and on programs but that is because there are simply more ECNL events than DA and many of the ECNL events are regional. Most players go to college within a half day drive anyways so this is more than sufficient.
DA showcases have fewer events but draw more coaches.
In either event coaches have limited time so they are there to look at players who have either reached out to them or their club coaches may have done so. But a college coach is still going to prioritize a player who is interested in their school over window shopping for a player who will become a bidding war. Top ten soccer programs are targeting YNT and YNTC players off the bar as well as statistical leaders and can afford to get into bidding wars.
If your DD is not one of the top 100 players in her age group then the player has to do the heavy lifting anyways. Frankly, a good player on a bad team playing against quality competition can stand out more to a coach than a good player on a great team. Think of it like trying to stand out at TJ if you are just average there. You are obviously still really smart but at that level you are average. The 3.7 at TJ may not pop the same as a 4.2 in run of the mill HS AP classes.
So for players to pop in front of non top ten, top twenty soccer coaches you need to show separation from your team and other players in the field. That doesn’t happen as easily if you are not the best player on your team.
It is nice that a club like FCV gets 40-70 coaches on their sideline but half of those coaches are really there to watch 2-3 players and the other half are there to watch up to 20 kids on two teams.
It is really about where your kid can both develop and be put in the best possible showcasing situation. And not to be forgotten is where is it the most fun to be. But a kid needs to be a top five player on their team in order to feel and play the part of a leading core player. Supporting role players, no matter how talented are just not alpha enough to pop.
Your top 5 player argument is false and it is getting old.
There are 333 D1 womens soccer programs (though not all fully funded). https://www.ncsasports.org/womens-soccer/division-1-colleges
The average roster size is 29.
The average recruiting class is 7.
333 D1 schools * 7 recruits per class = 2331
There are 52 ECNL clubs with a U18 team (from what I could find...this may be less)
There are 72 DA teams with a U18/19 team.
The average roster size is 18.
52+72=124 total teams
124*18=2232 total players
There are more openings for D1 schools than there are DA + ECNL players EVERY year.
This doesn't include D2 & D3 which are large in numbers. Only D1 & D2 offer athletic scholarships though.
If your DD doesn't completely suck, they can play in college at some level AND play D1 even if they come off the bench.
Play with the numbers all you want, the top 5 off of each team would only provide a player pool of 620 players to D1 teams.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 13:56
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let's be serious. The top teams in DA and ECNL are probably the best teams around but the bottom half could easily get outplayed by the top EDP/NPL teams. The U14 MRM Rush team that just moved to Bethesda, and Pipeline, routinely beat ECNL teams in the same age group.
DD plays on one of the better ECNL teams in the area and this is probably right. Dilution is real.
Yes. And the people complaining about dilution are the same people that don't want to drive further than 10 minutes to training. Ergo the need for a ton of "elite" clubs. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
Because there is no reason to drive by 4-5 clubs to play in the same showcases and in front of the same college coaches.
Dilution is a reason.
The number of "elite" clubs in the area should be cut in half for them to be truly "elite".
I don't know that I agree. There are talented kids all over the DMV, including Baltimore. Many play for non-DA/ECNL teams. Now that the Baltimore Armour is an option for Baltimore and area kids, the clubs in that area, namely Pipeline, Celtic and Premier Navy will remain competitive. They will lose a few players but that will provide opportunity from strong kids at smaller clubs to step up. Who will get hurt in all of this is the small clubs in the area. If you are at Alexandria and want to the highest level, you will jump ship for BRYC, Arlington or McLean. A player in Frederick can hit Loudoun, FCV, Bethesda or Baltimore Armour in 30-45 minutes. In both cases, Alexandria and Frederick suffer but they will likely replace those kids with players from smaller clubs.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 13:54
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let's be serious. The top teams in DA and ECNL are probably the best teams around but the bottom half could easily get outplayed by the top EDP/NPL teams. The U14 MRM Rush team that just moved to Bethesda, and Pipeline, routinely beat ECNL teams in the same age group.
DD plays on one of the better ECNL teams in the area and this is probably right. Dilution is real.
Yes. And the people complaining about dilution are the same people that don't want to drive further than 10 minutes to training. Ergo the need for a ton of "elite" clubs. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
Because there is no reason to drive by 4-5 clubs to play in the same showcases and in front of the same college coaches.
Dilution is a reason.
The number of "elite" clubs in the area should be cut in half for them to be truly "elite".
No real reason to do that either. These are not "elite" leagues, they are showcase leagues. Understand that and the importance of wins and losses declines.
Wow. Brilliant. I don't remember saying anything about elite be determined by wins and losses.
So coaches have unlimited time and money to visit every club in every geographic area to find all the players? There is no advantage to a consolidation of talent for those coaches? And what about the top players? Is there no benefit to playing and training with a roster full of top players?
I am trying to ask these questions with as little snark as possible but the content of your post makes that difficult.
Both ECNL and DA showcases draw the same college coaches. ECNL showcases may draw more regionally among the smaller D1 and on programs but that is because there are simply more ECNL events than DA and many of the ECNL events are regional. Most players go to college within a half day drive anyways so this is more than sufficient.
DA showcases have fewer events but draw more coaches.
In either event coaches have limited time so they are there to look at players who have either reached out to them or their club coaches may have done so. But a college coach is still going to prioritize a player who is interested in their school over window shopping for a player who will become a bidding war. Top ten soccer programs are targeting YNT and YNTC players off the bar as well as statistical leaders and can afford to get into bidding wars.
If your DD is not one of the top 100 players in her age group then the player has to do the heavy lifting anyways. Frankly, a good player on a bad team playing against quality competition can stand out more to a coach than a good player on a great team. Think of it like trying to stand out at TJ if you are just average there. You are obviously still really smart but at that level you are average. The 3.7 at TJ may not pop the same as a 4.2 in run of the mill HS AP classes.
So for players to pop in front of non top ten, top twenty soccer coaches you need to show separation from your team and other players in the field. That doesn’t happen as easily if you are not the best player on your team.
It is nice that a club like FCV gets 40-70 coaches on their sideline but half of those coaches are really there to watch 2-3 players and the other half are there to watch up to 20 kids on two teams.
It is really about where your kid can both develop and be put in the best possible showcasing situation. And not to be forgotten is where is it the most fun to be. But a kid needs to be a top five player on their team in order to feel and play the part of a leading core player. Supporting role players, no matter how talented are just not alpha enough to pop.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 13:43
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let's be serious. The top teams in DA and ECNL are probably the best teams around but the bottom half could easily get outplayed by the top EDP/NPL teams. The U14 MRM Rush team that just moved to Bethesda, and Pipeline, routinely beat ECNL teams in the same age group.
DD plays on one of the better ECNL teams in the area and this is probably right. Dilution is real.
Yes. And the people complaining about dilution are the same people that don't want to drive further than 10 minutes to training. Ergo the need for a ton of "elite" clubs. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
Because there is no reason to drive by 4-5 clubs to play in the same showcases and in front of the same college coaches.
Dilution is a reason.
The number of "elite" clubs in the area should be cut in half for them to be truly "elite".
No real reason to do that either. These are not "elite" leagues, they are showcase leagues. Understand that and the importance of wins and losses declines.
Wow. Brilliant. I don't remember saying anything about elite be determined by wins and losses.
So coaches have unlimited time and money to visit every club in every geographic area to find all the players? There is no advantage to a consolidation of talent for those coaches? And what about the top players? Is there no benefit to playing and training with a roster full of top players?
I am trying to ask these questions with as little snark as possible but the content of your post makes that difficult.
Wins and losses are a byproduct of an 'Elite' team. The DC area is severely diluted IMO because it is about dollars, not quality soccer. Each club has good teams and not so good of teams.
Some clubs are better overall top to bottom at the elite level.
And many on here won't admit it, but the truly elite teams get more college coaches on the sideline. They have more college coaches, and a higher level of D1 coaches at practices and games. A good team brings more viewers.
So there are people that drive by 4-5 clubs to get to the 'Elite' team at a particular club b/c they player will get more college exposure with less effort of attending open ID sessions.
There are those on here that complain about driving and then complain about dilution and then complain about some area teams that have a wealth of riches in quality players (such as BRYC '03). They go hand in hand IMO.
Each family has to choose on their own what pain/tolerance level you have for the BS.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 13:29
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let's be serious. The top teams in DA and ECNL are probably the best teams around but the bottom half could easily get outplayed by the top EDP/NPL teams. The U14 MRM Rush team that just moved to Bethesda, and Pipeline, routinely beat ECNL teams in the same age group.
DD plays on one of the better ECNL teams in the area and this is probably right. Dilution is real.
Yes. And the people complaining about dilution are the same people that don't want to drive further than 10 minutes to training. Ergo the need for a ton of "elite" clubs. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
Because there is no reason to drive by 4-5 clubs to play in the same showcases and in front of the same college coaches.
Dilution is a reason.
The number of "elite" clubs in the area should be cut in half for them to be truly "elite".
No real reason to do that either. These are not "elite" leagues, they are showcase leagues. Understand that and the importance of wins and losses declines.
Wow. Brilliant. I don't remember saying anything about elite be determined by wins and losses.
So coaches have unlimited time and money to visit every club in every geographic area to find all the players? There is no advantage to a consolidation of talent for those coaches? And what about the top players? Is there no benefit to playing and training with a roster full of top players?
I am trying to ask these questions with as little snark as possible but the content of your post makes that difficult.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 13:12
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Vienna is the best program. hands down
You don’t have to be so obvious when trolling. Be more subtle so it’s believable.
Exactly! You should be talking up the amazing opportunities for B team players at FCV who get to play in DPL and go to Georgia and Florida to play other B teams!
Perfect. Nice work at trolling.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 13:11
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let's be serious. The top teams in DA and ECNL are probably the best teams around but the bottom half could easily get outplayed by the top EDP/NPL teams. The U14 MRM Rush team that just moved to Bethesda, and Pipeline, routinely beat ECNL teams in the same age group.
DD plays on one of the better ECNL teams in the area and this is probably right. Dilution is real.
Yes. And the people complaining about dilution are the same people that don't want to drive further than 10 minutes to training. Ergo the need for a ton of "elite" clubs. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
Because there is no reason to drive by 4-5 clubs to play in the same showcases and in front of the same college coaches.
Dilution is a reason.
The number of "elite" clubs in the area should be cut in half for them to be truly "elite".
No real reason to do that either. These are not "elite" leagues, they are showcase leagues. Understand that and the importance of wins and losses declines.
Anonymous
06/04/2019 13:04
Subject: Girls DA/ECNL in VA: who will survive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let's be serious. The top teams in DA and ECNL are probably the best teams around but the bottom half could easily get outplayed by the top EDP/NPL teams. The U14 MRM Rush team that just moved to Bethesda, and Pipeline, routinely beat ECNL teams in the same age group.
DD plays on one of the better ECNL teams in the area and this is probably right. Dilution is real.
Yes. And the people complaining about dilution are the same people that don't want to drive further than 10 minutes to training. Ergo the need for a ton of "elite" clubs. Cant have your cake and eat it too.
Because there is no reason to drive by 4-5 clubs to play in the same showcases and in front of the same college coaches.
Dilution is a reason.
The number of "elite" clubs in the area should be cut in half for them to be truly "elite".