Anonymous
04/12/2019 15:37
Subject: Re:Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's funny to see how people's sensibilities are easily affected by fads over time.
How many people happily get married in religious structures and attend religious weddings despite so many atrocities committed in the name of organized religions (all of them) over human history? Or go to destination weddings in chateaus and castles owned by nobles who oppressed their peasants and serfs? Or on lands where the original Native American population was driven off? Or even in robber baron mansions built from tobacco or alcohol fortunes?
Slavery in the US is an ugly and unpleasant chapter of American history but it was far from unique in the annals of history. I once heard someone say that the past has a vote, but not a veto, on our decisions. If you let slavery veto your decisions today, it means you're still letting slavery affect your decision making process, which means it's still triumphing over us.
Real progress is having a diverse wedding on a former plantation. Because that is a sign of how times have changed and how we as a society have moved forward. Vetoing a wedding on a former plantation (where slavery was banned 150 years ago) means we're still letting the perversity of past injustices triumph over us. After all, wouldn't it be symbolic in its own way for a diverse group of wedding guests to happily dance and be merry on the floors built by a slave master?
My opinion, of course. Just do what makes you happy.
So you would have your wedding on the grounds of the concentration camp? To show how far we have come? As long as the building was pretty, of course.
Ok so according to your logic, we should close every road where there is a fatality. Tear down every house where there was a murder. Close every forest where someone died in an accident or suicide and basically never be happy again. You'll hate this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLNa-ocdryY
DP. Not analogous. In all your examples, the negative events were purely happenstance. In the case of plantations, their express purpose was forcing human beings to toil as slaves for the enrichment of the plantation owners.
Ok so just the pyramids, the great wall, the colosseum, the white house, the Tower of London, most of the roads in Europe - also no smiling at Machu Picchu because that empire conquered most of South America and probably not in a nice way. Also Tiananmen Square (some pretty oppressive stuff went down there too.) Can you make a list of the places that cannot be enjoyed because of how they were created just so everyone knows.
DP, but we're not talking about not visiting historical sites. We're talking about holding a wedding at a plantation. That you keep arguing about this issue and keep refusing to see how unconscionable it is really speaks volumes.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 15:00
Subject: Re:Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
DP. Not analogous. In all your examples, the negative events were purely happenstance. In the case of plantations, their express purpose was forcing human beings to toil as slaves for the enrichment of the plantation owners.
Which, at the time, was perfectly legal, and had been for centuries...
What does legality have to do with it? It's a huge, immoral stain on our country's history, and I wouldn't want to give the appearance of celebrating that "bygone era." People that do make themselves look either clueless or racist.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 14:54
Subject: Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:If the bride and groom are wearing matching MAGA themed tux and dress, then YES absolutely go for it.
Otherwise of course not. That said, white southern people apparently still do this.
I’m a black woman. I had (past tense) an Asian gf who came back breathless from a weekend at a plantation w her husband. She asked me excitedly whether I had ever been to one. I just looked at her straight faces and said “not by choice.” The only time I would go would be to look at the history of enslaving people as chattel against their will. I would ask to see the breeding barn, where my ancestors slept in a closed room above the hellishly hot kitchen that they toiled in all day and that kinda thing.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 14:50
Subject: Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Have you ever made a joke about "drinking the Kool-Aid"? That's a reference to an event in which men, women and children were forced to poison themselves. Arguably not a hilarious event in world history but a phrase that is commonly used in a rather flip manner.
People don't get black humor anymore. No more humor at all.
Black humour? Stop it.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 14:05
Subject: Re:Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Is a wedding at former concentration camp bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous
04/12/2019 13:25
Subject: Re:Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
DP. Not analogous. In all your examples, the negative events were purely happenstance. In the case of plantations, their express purpose was forcing human beings to toil as slaves for the enrichment of the plantation owners.
Which, at the time, was perfectly legal, and had been for centuries...
There's slavery and then there's slavery.
If you didn't know that, then do some reading. A lot of reading.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 13:22
Subject: Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
If the bride and groom are wearing matching MAGA themed tux and dress, then YES absolutely go for it.
Otherwise of course not. That said, white southern people apparently still do this.
Otherwise of course not. That said, white southern people apparently still do this.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 13:17
Subject: Re:Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:
DP. Not analogous. In all your examples, the negative events were purely happenstance. In the case of plantations, their express purpose was forcing human beings to toil as slaves for the enrichment of the plantation owners.
Which, at the time, was perfectly legal, and had been for centuries...
Anonymous
04/12/2019 11:57
Subject: Re:Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's funny to see how people's sensibilities are easily affected by fads over time.
How many people happily get married in religious structures and attend religious weddings despite so many atrocities committed in the name of organized religions (all of them) over human history? Or go to destination weddings in chateaus and castles owned by nobles who oppressed their peasants and serfs? Or on lands where the original Native American population was driven off? Or even in robber baron mansions built from tobacco or alcohol fortunes?
Slavery in the US is an ugly and unpleasant chapter of American history but it was far from unique in the annals of history. I once heard someone say that the past has a vote, but not a veto, on our decisions. If you let slavery veto your decisions today, it means you're still letting slavery affect your decision making process, which means it's still triumphing over us.
Real progress is having a diverse wedding on a former plantation. Because that is a sign of how times have changed and how we as a society have moved forward. Vetoing a wedding on a former plantation (where slavery was banned 150 years ago) means we're still letting the perversity of past injustices triumph over us. After all, wouldn't it be symbolic in its own way for a diverse group of wedding guests to happily dance and be merry on the floors built by a slave master?
My opinion, of course. Just do what makes you happy.
So you would have your wedding on the grounds of the concentration camp? To show how far we have come? As long as the building was pretty, of course.
Ok so according to your logic, we should close every road where there is a fatality. Tear down every house where there was a murder. Close every forest where someone died in an accident or suicide and basically never be happy again. You'll hate this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLNa-ocdryY
DP. Not analogous. In all your examples, the negative events were purely happenstance. In the case of plantations, their express purpose was forcing human beings to toil as slaves for the enrichment of the plantation owners.
Ok so just the pyramids, the great wall, the colosseum, the white house, the Tower of London, most of the roads in Europe - also no smiling at Machu Picchu because that empire conquered most of South America and probably not in a nice way. Also Tiananmen Square (some pretty oppressive stuff went down there too.) Can you make a list of the places that cannot be enjoyed because of how they were created just so everyone knows.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 11:45
Subject: Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
When my brother got married, I was living abroad with my family so I had not met his future wife or her family. One of the first facts I came to know about her was that she and her family were very excited about having the wedding at a plantation. Many of my extended family members met her for the first time at her plantation wedding.
The thing is that first impressions go a long way. In our extended family people still remember that she's the girl that had the plantation wedding -- and yes, a fair number of people do find a plantation wedding upsetting.
This is an important thing to bear in mind -- for many extended family members, the wedding might be the first time they meet the bride or the groom. Do you want a plantation to be part of that first impression that you are making? IN other words, the only thing they might actually know about you is that there's a possibility that you are racially insensitive or perhaps a racist.
The thing is that first impressions go a long way. In our extended family people still remember that she's the girl that had the plantation wedding -- and yes, a fair number of people do find a plantation wedding upsetting.
This is an important thing to bear in mind -- for many extended family members, the wedding might be the first time they meet the bride or the groom. Do you want a plantation to be part of that first impression that you are making? IN other words, the only thing they might actually know about you is that there's a possibility that you are racially insensitive or perhaps a racist.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 11:20
Subject: Re:Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's funny to see how people's sensibilities are easily affected by fads over time.
How many people happily get married in religious structures and attend religious weddings despite so many atrocities committed in the name of organized religions (all of them) over human history? Or go to destination weddings in chateaus and castles owned by nobles who oppressed their peasants and serfs? Or on lands where the original Native American population was driven off? Or even in robber baron mansions built from tobacco or alcohol fortunes?
Slavery in the US is an ugly and unpleasant chapter of American history but it was far from unique in the annals of history. I once heard someone say that the past has a vote, but not a veto, on our decisions. If you let slavery veto your decisions today, it means you're still letting slavery affect your decision making process, which means it's still triumphing over us.
Real progress is having a diverse wedding on a former plantation. Because that is a sign of how times have changed and how we as a society have moved forward. Vetoing a wedding on a former plantation (where slavery was banned 150 years ago) means we're still letting the perversity of past injustices triumph over us. After all, wouldn't it be symbolic in its own way for a diverse group of wedding guests to happily dance and be merry on the floors built by a slave master?
My opinion, of course. Just do what makes you happy.
So you would have your wedding on the grounds of the concentration camp? To show how far we have come? As long as the building was pretty, of course.
Ok so according to your logic, we should close every road where there is a fatality. Tear down every house where there was a murder. Close every forest where someone died in an accident or suicide and basically never be happy again. You'll hate this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLNa-ocdryY
DP. Not analogous. In all your examples, the negative events were purely happenstance. In the case of plantations, their express purpose was forcing human beings to toil as slaves for the enrichment of the plantation owners.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 10:52
Subject: Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You do know that people used to use cemeteries as public parks. The world is for the living.
"They were quite important spaces for recreation as well. Keep in mind, the great rural cemeteries were built at a time when there weren't public parks, or art museums, or botanical gardens in American cities. You suddenly had large pieces of ground, filled with beautiful sculptures and horticultural art. People flocked to cemeteries for picnics, for hunting and shooting and carriage racing. These places became so popular that not only were guidebooks issued to guide visitors, but also all kinds of rules were posted."
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/03/our-first-public-parks-the-forgotten-history-of-cemeteries/71818/
In Europe, people still do. My parents walk through, and sometimes sit and read in, the local cemetery in their Parisian neighborhood. It's relaxing and free from the city bustle.
European cemeteries are magical. You know in many countries in Europe they dig people up after a time to free up the space. You rent the plot effectively. I think the depth and bredth of their history gives them a little more perspective than we have.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 10:43
Subject: Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:Have you ever made a joke about "drinking the Kool-Aid"? That's a reference to an event in which men, women and children were forced to poison themselves. Arguably not a hilarious event in world history but a phrase that is commonly used in a rather flip manner.
People don't get black humor anymore. No more humor at all.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 10:42
Subject: Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Anonymous wrote:You do know that people used to use cemeteries as public parks. The world is for the living.
"They were quite important spaces for recreation as well. Keep in mind, the great rural cemeteries were built at a time when there weren't public parks, or art museums, or botanical gardens in American cities. You suddenly had large pieces of ground, filled with beautiful sculptures and horticultural art. People flocked to cemeteries for picnics, for hunting and shooting and carriage racing. These places became so popular that not only were guidebooks issued to guide visitors, but also all kinds of rules were posted."
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/03/our-first-public-parks-the-forgotten-history-of-cemeteries/71818/
In Europe, people still do. My parents walk through, and sometimes sit and read in, the local cemetery in their Parisian neighborhood. It's relaxing and free from the city bustle.
Anonymous
04/12/2019 10:42
Subject: Is a wedding at a 'plantation' bad form? or romantic?
Have you ever made a joke about "drinking the Kool-Aid"? That's a reference to an event in which men, women and children were forced to poison themselves. Arguably not a hilarious event in world history but a phrase that is commonly used in a rather flip manner.