Anonymous wrote:To build on black parent's snark - he/she is somewhat right. White/Asian unhooked students are chosen for the number of hoops they are willing to jump through. After they enter the selective college, somehow they must decompress and lose that mentality, or they won't be enter the top echelon of society, which is what the top schools give you an option for. I suspect this is part of the reason private school students do better. Generational wealth allowed them to achieve without grovelling.

Not sure what the solution is, but I have been seeing this problem for a while.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

Does AP Psych (after APUSH, AP Gov, and AP World) count as a decent 4th social studies/social science course? I'm not sure if the top schools want a fourth year of history or simply a 4th social studies course. Guidance counselor is not giving any advice in this area. I know of seniors who sign up for 4 arts classes (not even the most rigorous ones) and are disappointed when they don't get into their dream schools. Why do guidance counselors let capable students sign up for idiotic senior year schedules?

I have the same question. Does AP Psych count as a decent 4th social studies credit? Is there a better one?

Do you really think that admissions officers in their 3 min review of each applicants academic history and their 5 min review of everything else in the application really take even 0.5 sec to think about what the 4th social studies credit is for that kid? Really if the AP psych gives a gpa boost (esp. if it is also an unweighted gpa boost) then go for that course or esp. pick the course that most excites the kid the most - ie study for it's own sake. The admissions effects of any particular course is only impactful up to the final grade received and whether the student is taking the "most challenging curriculum" offered by their particular high school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To build on black parent's snark - he/she is somewhat right. White/Asian unhooked students are chosen for the number of hoops they are willing to jump through. After they enter the selective college, somehow they must decompress and lose that mentality, or they won't be enter the top echelon of society, which is what the top schools give you an option for. I suspect this is part of the reason private school students do better. Generational wealth allowed them to achieve without grovelling.

Not sure what the solution is, but I have been seeing this problem for a while.

Your point assumes the problem. Who says they need to decompress or lose any mentality? It's a ridiculous stereotype that kids with achievements are necessarily drones or sheep. They simply aren't. This (and the accompanying racist meme that Asian kids are robots) are just the excuse you make when some kids does better than yours. "Oh well, they must be a drone/robot/sheep." It's pathetic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To build on black parent's snark - he/she is somewhat right. White/Asian unhooked students are chosen for the number of hoops they are willing to jump through. After they enter the selective college, somehow they must decompress and lose that mentality, or they won't be enter the top echelon of society, which is what the top schools give you an option for. I suspect this is part of the reason private school students do better. Generational wealth allowed them to achieve without grovelling.

Not sure what the solution is, but I have been seeing this problem for a while.

Your point assumes the problem. Who says they need to decompress or lose any mentality? It's a ridiculous stereotype that kids with achievements are necessarily drones or sheep. They simply aren't. This (and the accompanying racist meme that Asian kids are robots) are just the excuse you make when some kids does better than yours. "Oh well, they must be a drone/robot/sheep." It's pathetic.

Sure there are lots of kids for whom these achievements come naturally. But there are also lots of kids who are following an algorithm, pushing themselves to unhealthy extremes, and doing contrived things (starting a nonprofit/business--this was not a thing a generation ago!) to get into an Ivy and it seems disingenuous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I'm glad you're not disappointed, though you do seem a bit overwrought. I'm not endorsing these standards (nor would it matter if I were); I simply meant to suggest that your daughter might not have stood out from the many, many applicants with similar credentials. That doesn't mean she's not a terrific student, nor does it mean she won't be successful. I hope she"ll will continue to do well in school. I also hope that you won't continue to resort to racism as an excuse when things don't go as you expect in life.

Well said, PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To build on black parent's snark - he/she is somewhat right. White/Asian unhooked students are chosen for the number of hoops they are willing to jump through. After they enter the selective college, somehow they must decompress and lose that mentality, or they won't be enter the top echelon of society, which is what the top schools give you an option for. I suspect this is part of the reason private school students do better. Generational wealth allowed them to achieve without grovelling.

Not sure what the solution is, but I have been seeing this problem for a while.

Your point assumes the problem. Who says they need to decompress or lose any mentality? It's a ridiculous stereotype that kids with achievements are necessarily drones or sheep. They simply aren't. This (and the accompanying racist meme that Asian kids are robots) are just the excuse you make when some kids does better than yours. "Oh well, they must be a drone/robot/sheep." It's pathetic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

I'm glad you're not disappointed, though you do seem a bit overwrought. I'm not endorsing these standards (nor would it matter if I were); I simply meant to suggest that your daughter might not have stood out from the many, many applicants with similar credentials. That doesn't mean she's not a terrific student, nor does it mean she won't be successful. I hope she"ll will continue to do well in school. I also hope that you won't continue to resort to racism as an excuse when things don't go as you expect in life.

Anonymous wrote:To build on black parent's snark - he/she is somewhat right. White/Asian unhooked students are chosen for the number of hoops they are willing to jump through. After they enter the selective college, somehow they must decompress and lose that mentality, or they won't be enter the top echelon of society, which is what the top schools give you an option for. I suspect this is part of the reason private school students do better. Generational wealth allowed them to achieve without grovelling.

Not sure what the solution is, but I have been seeing this problem for a while.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

+1 on the ridiculousness of this stmt "Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?" And FWIW anyone with a degree and a pulse can be an alumni interviewer for their college. My ivy league college sends me invitations all the time -- right along with their giving solicitations. Dont mistake that person for an expert on college admissions.

Seriously, who wants to go to a college where *every* student is like this?? Straight A drones who do everything they're told. Pushing to be bossy leaders for the sake of their resume. Feeling they have to win everything. Yuck. Putting thousands of kids together like this just devalues achievement and promotes elitism, not to mention rewarding stress and unhealthy living.

PERFECT SHEEP. You can have 'em.

white people are the best. you somehow manage to hold these two thoughts in your head at once without shame:

1. my kid should get preference over all minorities as they are unqualified because they have lower scores and grades as my precious kid (i say that without evidence because we all know white kids are the smartest kids of all)

2. my kid should get preference over all kids who have better scores and grades than my precious kid because they are drones and sheep who contribute nothing to college.

the gist of your position is that the only applicants colleges can accept without the process being abusive or unfair are your kids.

ain't no hypocrites like white hypocrites.

I was going for more of a pro-diversity argument....but OK...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

+1 on the ridiculousness of this stmt "Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?" And FWIW anyone with a degree and a pulse can be an alumni interviewer for their college. My ivy league college sends me invitations all the time -- right along with their giving solicitations. Dont mistake that person for an expert on college admissions.

Seriously, who wants to go to a college where *every* student is like this?? Straight A drones who do everything they're told. Pushing to be bossy leaders for the sake of their resume. Feeling they have to win everything. Yuck. Putting thousands of kids together like this just devalues achievement and promotes elitism, not to mention rewarding stress and unhealthy living.

PERFECT SHEEP. You can have 'em.

white people are the best. you somehow manage to hold these two thoughts in your head at once without shame:

1. my kid should get preference over all minorities as they are unqualified because they have lower scores and grades as my precious kid (i say that without evidence because we all know white kids are the smartest kids of all)

2. my kid should get preference over all kids who have better scores and grades than my precious kid because they are drones and sheep who contribute nothing to college.

the gist of your position is that the only applicants colleges can accept without the process being abusive or unfair are your kids.

ain't no hypocrites like white hypocrites.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

Lock this thread. We have a winner.

+1 on the ridiculousness of this stmt "Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?" And FWIW anyone with a degree and a pulse can be an alumni interviewer for their college. My ivy league college sends me invitations all the time -- right along with their giving solicitations. Dont mistake that person for an expert on college admissions.

Seriously, who wants to go to a college where *every* student is like this?? Straight A drones who do everything they're told. Pushing to be bossy leaders for the sake of their resume. Feeling they have to win everything. Yuck. Putting thousands of kids together like this just devalues achievement and promotes elitism, not to mention rewarding stress and unhealthy living.

PERFECT SHEEP. You can have 'em.

white people are the best. you somehow manage to hold these two thoughts in your head at once without shame:

1. my kid should get preference over all minorities as they are unqualified because they have lower scores and grades as my precious kid (i say that without evidence because we all know white kids are the smartest kids of all)

2. my kid should get preference over all kids who have better scores and grades than my precious kid because they are drones and sheep who contribute nothing to college.

the gist of your position is that the only applicants colleges can accept without the process being abusive or unfair are your kids.

ain't no hypocrites like white hypocrites.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.

+1 on the ridiculousness of this stmt "Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?" And FWIW anyone with a degree and a pulse can be an alumni interviewer for their college. My ivy league college sends me invitations all the time -- right along with their giving solicitations. Dont mistake that person for an expert on college admissions.

Seriously, who wants to go to a college where *every* student is like this?? Straight A drones who do everything they're told. Pushing to be bossy leaders for the sake of their resume. Feeling they have to win everything. Yuck. Putting thousands of kids together like this just devalues achievement and promotes elitism, not to mention rewarding stress and unhealthy living.

PERFECT SHEEP. You can have 'em.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. Weighted GPAs are worthless

2. High unweighted GPAs are not going to get you anywhere in the top 25 without a very rigorous course load with 4 years of every academic subject including foreign language.

3. Any college with a 25% or less acceptance rate is a lottery for kids with nearly perfect stats

4. Naviance does not account for recruits, legacies, courseload, first gen status, full pay status, etc.

5. It’s a tool, not a crystal ball.

DD had straight As, even in APs and honors, won the Wellesley Book Award, was a STEM student, could pay full tuition anywhere, cash. Played sports as well. Great SAT scores. White female with no legacy, rejected from everything but her safeties. Applied to no Ivys by choice.

Don’t tell me her race didn’t play a role in this liberal academic environment

I worked in admissions and am currently an alum interviewer for my college. Your daughter sounds like an excellent student, so I can understand your disappointment, but there's a lot more to admissions than GPA and SAT scores. Before you play the race card, consider:

What were her recommendations like?
How did she do in interviews?
Did her essay add dimension to her profile as a strong student?
Did she hold any leadership positions -- you mention that she played sports, but was she a team captain?
Did she excel in any national STEM competitions?

First, there IS no disappointment on my or my husband's part. She got into a nice college and has continued to do great.. I didn't WANT a top school, don't care. But boy was she pressured by her peer group in this area! What shocked me was the absolute ridiculousness of the process.

Her teachers, frankly, were stunned. Look at the list you just put up above. Does that also apply towards minorities, or is it ok if they don't meet your (frankly) abusive criteria above.

What you are saying as a college recruiter/interviewer is that kids need to get almost perfect SAT scores, over-perform in academics, be team captains, win national competitions, and hold leadership positions? These kids are TEENAGERS for Christ sakes!

Do you NOT see how absolutely absurd this is? My GOD if this is your criteria, you just proved my point as to how abusive and unrealistic college admissions has become. You are a major part of the problem.