Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By weeding out, you mean the students perform poorly in the courses needed to become a doctoral level scientist. Not sure how to get around that.

I have a PhD and often have to review the applications of students who sincerely want to pursue a PhD in my field. Their grades and standardized test scores however, suggest that they will not complete graduate school successfully. We would do them a disservice to admit them to an expensive, time-consuming (5-7 year) process...if all indications are they will not finish with the degree at the end.

suggests they are not "verified brilliant".

Anonymous wrote:My oldest attends a top college and she's not pursuing pre-med but many of her friends are (or were). These pre-med girls (and boys) are verified brilliant, with grit and outgoing genuinely nice personalities. Yet their college and every top 100 American university weeds out at least 50% of them. Can someone tell me why? These kids go from wanting to serve people to becoming "consultants" or wall street money changers or lawyers. This has to be the most ass backwards disservice to health care in this country. Then we import Asia and Middle East-trained MDs with subpar training and awful bedside manner. I just don't get it.

https://www.stanforddaily.com/2017/06/03/the-pre-med-drop-out/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About the # of foreigners in US med schools: my understanding is that US med schools generally won't accept pre-requisites completed at non-US colleges/universities (with very limited exceptions for Canadian and certain UK universities). So, the only way for a "foreigner" to go to med school in the US is to have also gone to undergrad in US or to have completed pre-reqs (such as in a post-bacc program) in the US.

Not the OP, but my DD is interested in the medical professions. She has a lot of other interests as well. Rather than select college specifically for pre-med, we are thinking that she should choose a college based on overall fit for all her interests. And potentially, just do a post-bacc if she ultimately decides that she wants to go to the med school route.

If undergrad pre-med is so brutal, why do more students not do a post-bacc? (I'm sure cost is a reason, but we are thinking that a more inexpensive undergrad followed by a "prestigious" post-bacc could cost the same or less than pre-med at a "prestigious" undergrad).

Thread is about importing foreign trained MDs after flushing out most of our domestic best and brightest during undergrad. We literally push millions of wicked smart American kids into pointless financial services and consulting because they couldn't ace organic chemistry?! It's insanity.

I am a PhD not an MD. As part of my grad work, I taught (teaching assistant) and tutored pre-med students in organic chem. I assure you the standards are not too high. Most pre-med students did not have a deep understanding of .org chem (they dealt with it by memorizing). You could always tell the pre-med versus the chem students (or engineering students). Really it’s a pretty low bar to do well on organic chem. I would hope a doctor treating me or my kid could hack it.

Yes! The science and engineering students (chemical, materials, environmental) kids Are the only ones in organic classes I have taught seem to really understand the course. Premed students for the most part are focused on the grade and memorize their way through things. You really don’t want a doc that can’t ace undergrad org chem. It is just not that hard.

Anonymous wrote:They are needed to serve in underserved areas. American born, American trained MDs do not want to live and work in rural Indiana, no matter how much you pay them.
I don’t know much about it, but there are only certain places where a J-1 visa will be accepted, so many foreign MDs are forced into these rural areas for several years before they can go to the city.

Anonymous wrote:the Med Schools in the Caribbean are a fantastic value.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About the # of foreigners in US med schools: my understanding is that US med schools generally won't accept pre-requisites completed at non-US colleges/universities (with very limited exceptions for Canadian and certain UK universities). So, the only way for a "foreigner" to go to med school in the US is to have also gone to undergrad in US or to have completed pre-reqs (such as in a post-bacc program) in the US.

Not the OP, but my DD is interested in the medical professions. She has a lot of other interests as well. Rather than select college specifically for pre-med, we are thinking that she should choose a college based on overall fit for all her interests. And potentially, just do a post-bacc if she ultimately decides that she wants to go to the med school route.

If undergrad pre-med is so brutal, why do more students not do a post-bacc? (I'm sure cost is a reason, but we are thinking that a more inexpensive undergrad followed by a "prestigious" post-bacc could cost the same or less than pre-med at a "prestigious" undergrad).

Thread is about importing foreign trained MDs after flushing out most of our domestic best and brightest during undergrad. We literally push millions of wicked smart American kids into pointless financial services and consulting because they couldn't ace organic chemistry?! It's insanity.

I am a PhD not an MD. As part of my grad work, I taught (teaching assistant) and tutored pre-med students in organic chem. I assure you the standards are not too high. Most pre-med students did not have a deep understanding of .org chem (they dealt with it by memorizing). You could always tell the pre-med versus the chem students (or engineering students). Really it’s a pretty low bar to do well on organic chem. I would hope a doctor treating me or my kid could hack it.

Anonymous wrote:My oldest attends a top college and she's not pursuing pre-med but many of her friends are (or were). These pre-med girls (and boys) are verified brilliant, with grit and outgoing genuinely nice personalities. Yet their college and every top 100 American university weeds out at least 50% of them. Can someone tell me why? These kids go from wanting to serve people to becoming "consultants" or wall street money changers or lawyers. This has to be the most ass backwards disservice to health care in this country. Then we import Asia and Middle East-trained MDs with subpar training and awful bedside manner. I just don't get it.

https://www.stanforddaily.com/2017/06/03/the-pre-med-drop-out/

Anonymous wrote:If you can't hack it in UNDEGRAD ochem, anat and phys, biochem, etc. what the heck makes you think you'd be able to do so in medical school?

Anonymous wrote:By weeding out, you mean the students perform poorly in the courses needed to become a doctoral level scientist. Not sure how to get around that.

I have a PhD and often have to review the applications of students who sincerely want to pursue a PhD in my field. Their grades and standardized test scores however, suggest that they will not complete graduate school successfully. We would do them a disservice to admit them to an expensive, time-consuming (5-7 year) process...if all indications are they will not finish with the degree at the end.