Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Data is not the plural of anecdote.

Replace "choosing to forego sex for the next 6 years" if you'd like.

Oh come on like half of 30 year olds right now have divorced parents. Most of our lives weren't ruined. And this was divorce in the days when no one was talking about ways to do it right to protect the children and moms were always given custody.

And I personally think that choosing to forego sex for 6 years is a totally reasonable price to pay if you think your children's lives will literally be ruined. And I take issue with you dinging me on that as my entire problem with this poster is that they are hyperbolic and dramatic and using it to justify their decisions. I am using that poster (your?) language, not my own.

Choosing to forego sex for 6 years is a violation of marital vows. If that's your choice and it's not for health reasons, you reap what you sow and you get no sympathy from me.

There's no data that discovering an affair (if it even happens) "ruins" a kid's life as much or more than the challenges of a divorced family.

You've no way of knowing, and it's the dead certainty absent evidence that makes these comments seem absurd.

No one thinks affairs are acceptable and a good moral choice, but the idea that once a spouse unilaterally tanks the marriage, the other is obligated to take the course you're choosing for them is unsupported by anything.

It's fine to have that opinion, but the certainty is pompous.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and imagine that you've never been in a position to carry the weight of an entire family once a spouse breaks the vows through sloth, denying sex, and basically abandoning everyone. The fact you can't imagine being in those shoes is a gift I sincerely hope stays with you for life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You sound like YOU are projecting on PP. PP has a happy marriage and sex life where they don't worry too much about frequency but it happens regularly and isn't a hot topic issue in their marriage. I'm sure maybe her husband masturbates. PP didn't say anything about that at all. They are different activities that don't always relate to one another. No one is arguing anything else here in this side bar.

If she and her husband are happy why do you feel the need to try to bring her down. My DH and I are super happy and have sex about once a week, sometimes a little longer in between. He's fine with it, I'm fine with it, I think both of us help ourselves out from time to time, we're fine with that too. I would agree that he doesn't get the emotional high from sex I do as much or as often but this works for us. If I had to have sex with my husband every day my vagina would hurt so much, nothing about what you described seems like a happy life to me. But that is your life and it works for you. I'm not saying you're doing it wrong, don't tell us we're doing it wrong. People are different and need different things. You are the only one making broad claims about an entire gender, not PP.

Le sigh. Let me separate the only line in your response that relates to my comment and respond to that.

Anonymous wrote:
I would agree that he doesn't get the emotional high from sex I do as much or as often but this works for us.

So you and I feel the exact same way about the PP's comment. I was not judging the frequency of her relationship's sex. I was pointing out that her views about how her husband feels when it comes to sex and feelings probably do not line up with his own views as much as she thinks they do. You yourself are saying the same thing about men vs. women. I only offered the masturbation/sex every day anecdote as an illustration of how to men, needing an orgasm can be the same as needing to take a dump or brush their teeth. It can be an ordinary bodily function to them not always associated with deep connections as the PP implied. I didn't say, "having sex ONLY x times a month is wrong." I said, "thinking your husband ONLY wants sex or ONLY has sex when there are deep emotions involved" is wrong. You agree with me.

I didn't claim her husband is unhappy with their arrangement or that their arrangement doesn't work. In fact, they probably only have sex once a month particularly because the husband has decided maintaining what makes his wife happy in return makes him happy.

Or maybe none of the above. We're having back and forth discussions about sex between adults. If no one offered countering opinions on forums, forums would just be boring lists.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but you sound like a woman who has no idea how her husband's anatomy and biological drive work. You project the way you feel about sex onto your husband.

My husband and I have sex nearly every night and yet nearly every morning he masturbates before work. Why? Because sometimes he wants touchy feely romantic sex and sometimes he just wants to cum. I promise you your husband is not only having sex with he feels deeply connected. That's you. He may not be having an affair at all, it may just be between him and his hand.

And if you don't know this about him, it's because you don't have the super close intimate relationship you think you have with him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For many cheaters, it’s not really about sex. The number of people you see, especially on here, who don’t really like their spouses is astonishing. But then they have kids, a mortgage, whatever. So one day they come across someone they actually like - the person they should have held out for if only they had known. So they make stupid decisions, or in some cases it is the least bad option on the table. I have seen people with kids and batsh*t crazy spouses with whom the person doesn’t want to leave their kids alone with, which would happen if they divorce, because it’s really hard to get sole custody, especially for men.

Life just isn’t that absolute, and people make do the best they can. And for some of you who cannot see shades of gray in life also don’t see that maybe that rigidity you have is what your spouse wasn’t able to deal with.

The bottom line is, I'd rather have an affair than punish my kids for my husband's giving up on work, sex, self-care, therapy, ADHD meds, and social interactions.

What divorce would do to my kids:
--lose their house
--lose their neighborhood and possibly school
--at least 3 days/week with the parent who forgets to buy groceries, sleeps past school wake-up, refuses to clean the house
--at least 3 days/week without the parent who listens to their problems, guides them to stay on track with chores and homework, and makes sure they get nutritious food
--living in two crappy apartments
--finally find out the depths to which their dad has sunk, when I'm no longer trying to smooth it over and participate in his BS story that he's a consultant

What my affair does to my spouse:
--while he's got his face in his computer ignoring the rest of us, I am in a hotel for a few hours instead of at tennis, where I used to be
--the person with whom he stopped having sex is no longer pleading him to find a way toward intimacy again
--the person with whom he stopped having sex is no longer cranky every single day about my sexless life
--the person with whom he stopped having sex, whom he unilaterally forced to be a breadwinner, who has been gently covering for him so he doesn't feel quite as ashamed when with friends no longer resents him so much she can barely stand to be in a room with him
--he is at risk, if he wakes up and does anything about his life after years of being supported, loved, asked to please re-commit to therapy
--probably mean that when the kids are out of the house, his stay in the Wife Hotel will come to an end
--hurt him if he finds out

At the end of the day, I can punish my kids for my spouse's unilateral, intractable, long-standing abandonment of his responsibilities (no way); accede to my spouse's unilateral decision that I be denied sex and intimacy for the rest of his life (no way); or discretely find the love and intimacy I actually deserve, as the one person who makes sure my entire family has the life they would have had if my husband wasn't such a selfish person, if he didn't think that he needed to man up and be an adult.

So I chose option C and I don't honestly care whether some people think it would be better to destroy my kids' lives or sacrifice my own for the truly bad actor in this family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've thought about it but never done it. DH is just much lower drive than I am and it makes me sad. He's a great guy but it has been the same situation for 15 years now and it never changes, no matter how much I talk to him, try to look nice. When we were dating, it wasn't as noticeable to me because I was working 70 hours a week or so, but once we got married and I switched jobs, it started bothering me a lot more. I am 95 percent sure that I will never actually have an affair, because I know it is wrong, but this situation is disheartening and I feel unattractive and undesired.

OMG this is me!!! Its very disheartening!

Anonymous wrote:
You sound like YOU are projecting on PP. PP has a happy marriage and sex life where they don't worry too much about frequency but it happens regularly and isn't a hot topic issue in their marriage. I'm sure maybe her husband masturbates. PP didn't say anything about that at all. They are different activities that don't always relate to one another. No one is arguing anything else here in this side bar.

If she and her husband are happy why do you feel the need to try to bring her down. My DH and I are super happy and have sex about once a week, sometimes a little longer in between. He's fine with it, I'm fine with it, I think both of us help ourselves out from time to time, we're fine with that too. I would agree that he doesn't get the emotional high from sex I do as much or as often but this works for us. If I had to have sex with my husband every day my vagina would hurt so much, nothing about what you described seems like a happy life to me. But that is your life and it works for you. I'm not saying you're doing it wrong, don't tell us we're doing it wrong. People are different and need different things. You are the only one making broad claims about an entire gender, not PP.

Anonymous wrote:
I would agree that he doesn't get the emotional high from sex I do as much or as often but this works for us.

Anonymous wrote:I've thought about it but never done it. DH is just much lower drive than I am and it makes me sad. He's a great guy but it has been the same situation for 15 years now and it never changes, no matter how much I talk to him, try to look nice. When we were dating, it wasn't as noticeable to me because I was working 70 hours a week or so, but once we got married and I switched jobs, it started bothering me a lot more. I am 95 percent sure that I will never actually have an affair, because I know it is wrong, but this situation is disheartening and I feel unattractive and undesired.

Anonymous wrote:I've thought about it but never done it. DH is just much lower drive than I am and it makes me sad. He's a great guy but it has been the same situation for 15 years now and it never changes, no matter how much I talk to him, try to look nice. When we were dating, it wasn't as noticeable to me because I was working 70 hours a week or so, but once we got married and I switched jobs, it started bothering me a lot more. I am 95 percent sure that I will never actually have an affair, because I know it is wrong, but this situation is disheartening and I feel unattractive and undesired.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by this thread and by general conversation in this forum. People talk about sex with spouses as if it is another chore, like taking trash out or taking kids to school. They talk in terms of outcomes. If you give your spouse sex you will keep your marriage. If you don't give your spouse sex you will end up cheated on or divorced.
What about feelings? I mean how can you have satisfying sex without deep intimacy, connectedness, giddy feelings, excitement?
I married later in life to a husband 8 years younger than me. If we don't feel like having sex for a week or two or even a month we are totally ok. We don't obsess over sex. We have sex when we feel deeply connected. I guess I don't know how else to have sex...

I'm sorry to be blunt, but you sound like a woman who has no idea how her husband's anatomy and biological drive work. You project the way you feel about sex onto your husband.

My husband and I have sex nearly every night and yet nearly every morning he masturbates before work. Why? Because sometimes he wants touchy feely romantic sex and sometimes he just wants to cum. I promise you your husband is not only having sex with he feels deeply connected. That's you. He may not be having an affair at all, it may just be between him and his hand.

And if you don't know this about him, it's because you don't have the super close intimate relationship you think you have with him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by this thread and by general conversation in this forum. People talk about sex with spouses as if it is another chore, like taking trash out or taking kids to school. They talk in terms of outcomes. If you give your spouse sex you will keep your marriage. If you don't give your spouse sex you will end up cheated on or divorced.
What about feelings? I mean how can you have satisfying sex without deep intimacy, connectedness, giddy feelings, excitement?
I married later in life to a husband 8 years younger than me. If we don't feel like having sex for a week or two or even a month we are totally ok. We don't obsess over sex. We have sex when we feel deeply connected. I guess I don't know how else to have sex...

I'm sorry to be blunt, but you sound like a woman who has no idea how her husband's anatomy and biological drive work. You project the way you feel about sex onto your husband.

My husband and I have sex nearly every night and yet nearly every morning he masturbates before work. Why? Because sometimes he wants touchy feely romantic sex and sometimes he just wants to cum. I promise you your husband is not only having sex with he feels deeply connected. That's you. He may not be having an affair at all, it may just be between him and his hand.

And if you don't know this about him, it's because you don't have the super close intimate relationship you think you have with him.

Anonymous wrote:

Not true. I’m aware of several men who spent decades trying to find an ap at their work or elsewhere without any success. They earned good money but were unattractive.

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder if I'm just unattractive because absolutely no married men ever express interest in me. At all. I'm 41 and slender. I know this is horribly immature but I have zero interest in actually having an affair. I just want someone to be interested in me so that I can feel flattered and say no thanks.

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by this thread and by general conversation in this forum. People talk about sex with spouses as if it is another chore, like taking trash out or taking kids to school. They talk in terms of outcomes. If you give your spouse sex you will keep your marriage. If you don't give your spouse sex you will end up cheated on or divorced.
What about feelings? I mean how can you have satisfying sex without deep intimacy, connectedness, giddy feelings, excitement?
I married later in life to a husband 8 years younger than me. If we don't feel like having sex for a week or two or even a month we are totally ok. We don't obsess over sex. We have sex when we feel deeply connected. I guess I don't know how else to have sex...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Data is not the plural of anecdote.

Replace "choosing to forego sex for the next 6 years" if you'd like.

Oh come on like half of 30 year olds right now have divorced parents. Most of our lives weren't ruined. And this was divorce in the days when no one was talking about ways to do it right to protect the children and moms were always given custody.

And I personally think that choosing to forego sex for 6 years is a totally reasonable price to pay if you think your children's lives will literally be ruined. And I take issue with you dinging me on that as my entire problem with this poster is that they are hyperbolic and dramatic and using it to justify their decisions. I am using that poster (your?) language, not my own.

Choosing to forego sex for 6 years is a violation of marital vows. If that's your choice and it's not for health reasons, you reap what you sow and you get no sympathy from me.

Anonymous wrote:

It sounds like your husband is not satisfying some kind of emotional need you have—the need to feel attractive to men or something.

Yeah, maybe. He travels a lot and works a lot. But I love him and don't want to have an affair. I just wanted to feel validated and get some attention. I'm going to put the whole situation out of my mind.