Anonymous wrote:23:01, I'm not sure what your point is. The Cogat is a well-recognized test; if there are a lot of people scoring in the 99th percentile it is not because standards are lower.

If you look at this chart, anything from 135-160 is the 99%ile on the Cogat.

https://www.nsd.org/Page/28102

Sounds like this is what's tripping up the understanding of all this. When everyone posts that their kids are 99th percentile with perfect grades, we're not seeing the difference between the 136 kids and the 150 kids with perfect grades. Presumably the selection committee did see those raw scores. I wonder whether they'd tell you if you called to ask? (Note, though, that anything in the 98th and 99th percentile is considered gifted.)

We haven't gotten a letter yet, but DD's friend from their HGC class had 99%/straight As and got a rejection letter. She's zoned for a MS with 40ish% FARMS and a Great Schools 5.

DD is zoned for TPMS, had a couple of Bs in first quarter, tends to test relatively well but not spectacularly, but she does show a sky-high Lexile level on the MAP testing. So I'm a little skeptical of the idea that the acceptances will come today, because she definitely doesn't sound like a better candidate than a lot of the rejected kids, unless her raw COGAT score was somehow through the roof. I'd be shocked if she was accepted, after hearing all this. But it's her bad luck that she had to apply the first year they didn't take teacher recommendations, because hers said she'd be perfect for the program at Eastern.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like MCPS was conducting testing for acceptance into the CES to screen out the best, brightest students. They are just focusing on diversity to give those at a disadvantage to have a better learning environment or opportunity. Someone mentioned that evaluation also considered the student's academic peer group of highly able students. They also take into account that accelerated and enriched programs may also be provided at the selected middle schools (e.g., advanced English and advanced Math). This is a BS way of protecting themselves from any lawsuit. Their focus is not on the brightest, capable students. It is an unfortunate situation as the school system is run by a few special interest administrators whose goal is anything but academic excellence. These guys need to protect their jobs and cater to their special interest group friends.

You have absolutely no proof that they are "just focusing on diversity." Stop using kids of color as a convenient scapegoat. Yes, it is disappointing. I know a couple of kids who got rejection letters yesterday who would have done GREAT at the TPMS program, but they will also do GREAT at their home school.

Folks need to channel this anger into MCPS for removing tracking from middle school classes, rather than focusing their disappointment on Black and brown children.

And focus on what to do to change this back to providing more support for gifted children in their home middle schools. We can quibble all day about whether our own 99%-scoring students should have been admitted vs. other people's 99%-scoring students and whether the reasons were subjective and/or justified. But the fact is, there are many gifted children around here, and only 200 MS places in these 2 schools.
With the collective intelligence of the parents posting on this thread, we can surely identify what programs we'd *like* to see at our kids' home middle schools. Imagine you lived in a school district with no magnet middle schools. What kind of gifted program would you like to see at the middle school that is currently not there? Which ones are cost-effective for the school district? Easy to implement in a year or so? Start from there. You have 3 years to make it happen so your child can get at least some some special gifted attention by 8th. If you spend months challenging the Board of Ed (like one poster said he/she plan to do), you should also be spending just as much time creating an actual near-term solution for your child. My plan is to work with the home school to see what they have the appetite to do and unite with other interested parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:23:01, I'm not sure what your point is. The Cogat is a well-recognized test; if there are a lot of people scoring in the 99th percentile it is not because standards are lower.

If you look at this chart, anything from 135-160 is the 99%ile on the Cogat.

https://www.nsd.org/Page/28102

I think this is telling. The range of possible scores at the 99%ile is really big. It would be interesting to see if MCPS is choosing for admittance those with the highest scores within this range or using other criteria to "pick and choose" among anyone within this range.

Let's say we find out that MCPS used "other factors" among kids already in the 99th percentile. What harm would that do? Do you honestly think a kid with a 140 is substantively less capable of doing the work than a kid with a 150? Probably not.

It has never been a pure meritocracy where they take the first 100 past the gate depending on Cogat score. They've taken into account other factors, such as teacher recommendations and essays. This is not a significant change.

Anonymous wrote:What has been changed since last year ?

My DC (Asian lives in W school area fortunately !) was accepted by TPMS Magent.

There was no 99% or something like that in the test score --but the median accepted students test score and my DC's was well above those in SCAT and Raven but a bit below on reading.

At the open house I saw majority of the accepted students' parents were Asians

I have three kids but only one got in, obviously the highest academic achiever.

I don't believe MCPS is not selecting the highest achievers.

Someone mentioned kids with MAP score 250/260 got rejected. I am not sure this score is for reading or for math. I even don't know MAP is considered for the selection process. Even it is -- mine got a few points shy from 300 in Math.

TPMS Magnet accepts a lot high achievers (testing or class work etc) I don't believe MCPS has the ability to close this gap (I even don't believe MCPS has the intention of doing that) because these kids are bright and they work hard and they are competitive. With or without the magnet (wherever they attend schools) they will just be doing fine

There is a big change this year with the selection process, including the name of the program. No longer HGT. TPMS and Eastern both first to experiment this selection process.

What has been changed since last year ?

My DC (Asian lives in W school area fortunately !) was accepted by TPMS Magent.

There was no 99% or something like that in the test score --but the median accepted students test score and my DC's was well above those in SCAT and Raven but a bit below on reading.

At the open house I saw majority of the accepted students' parents were Asians

I have three kids but only one got in, obviously the highest academic achiever.

I don't believe MCPS is not selecting the highest achievers.

Someone mentioned kids with MAP score 250/260 got rejected. I am not sure this score is for reading or for math. I even don't know MAP is considered for the selection process. Even it is -- mine got a few points shy from 300 in Math.

TPMS Magnet accepts a lot high achievers (testing or class work etc) I don't believe MCPS has the ability to close this gap (I even don't believe MCPS has the intention of doing that) because these kids are bright and they work hard and they are competitive. With or without the magnet (wherever they attend schools) they will just be doing fine

Anonymous wrote:23:01, I'm not sure what your point is. The Cogat is a well-recognized test; if there are a lot of people scoring in the 99th percentile it is not because standards are lower.

If you look at this chart, anything from 135-160 is the 99%ile on the Cogat.

https://www.nsd.org/Page/28102

I think this is telling. The range of possible scores at the 99%ile is really big. It would be interesting to see if MCPS is choosing for admittance those with the highest scores within this range or using other criteria to "pick and choose" among anyone within this range.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like MCPS was conducting testing for acceptance into the CES to screen out the best, brightest students. They are just focusing on diversity to give those at a disadvantage to have a better learning environment or opportunity. Someone mentioned that evaluation also considered the student's academic peer group of highly able students. They also take into account that accelerated and enriched programs may also be provided at the selected middle schools (e.g., advanced English and advanced Math). This is a BS way of protecting themselves from any lawsuit. Their focus is not on the brightest, capable students. It is an unfortunate situation as the school system is run by a few special interest administrators whose goal is anything but academic excellence. These guys need to protect their jobs and cater to their special interest group friends.

Another poster who seems to believe that the only way to increase the number of black/Hispanic/poor kids in gifted programs is to admit undeserving black/Hispanic/poor kids and exclude deserving white/Asian/affluent kids.

Unfortunately it is shocking to learn about these kinds of program exist to racially divide white/asian/affluent kids.

This will cause a backlash later when kids of this group become successful. Why can't they just focus on academic excellence?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like MCPS was conducting testing for acceptance into the CES to screen out the best, brightest students. They are just focusing on diversity to give those at a disadvantage to have a better learning environment or opportunity. Someone mentioned that evaluation also considered the student's academic peer group of highly able students. They also take into account that accelerated and enriched programs may also be provided at the selected middle schools (e.g., advanced English and advanced Math). This is a BS way of protecting themselves from any lawsuit. Their focus is not on the brightest, capable students. It is an unfortunate situation as the school system is run by a few special interest administrators whose goal is anything but academic excellence. These guys need to protect their jobs and cater to their special interest group friends.

Another poster who seems to believe that the only way to increase the number of black/Hispanic/poor kids in gifted programs is to admit undeserving black/Hispanic/poor kids and exclude deserving white/Asian/affluent kids.

Unfortunately it is shocking to learn about these kinds of program exist to racially divide white/asian/affluent kids.

Anonymous wrote:It looks like MCPS was conducting testing for acceptance into the CES to screen out the best, brightest students. They are just focusing on diversity to give those at a disadvantage to have a better learning environment or opportunity. Someone mentioned that evaluation also considered the student's academic peer group of highly able students. They also take into account that accelerated and enriched programs may also be provided at the selected middle schools (e.g., advanced English and advanced Math). This is a BS way of protecting themselves from any lawsuit. Their focus is not on the brightest, capable students. It is an unfortunate situation as the school system is run by a few special interest administrators whose goal is anything but academic excellence. These guys need to protect their jobs and cater to their special interest group friends.

You have absolutely no proof that they are "just focusing on diversity." Stop using kids of color as a convenient scapegoat. Yes, it is disappointing. I know a couple of kids who got rejection letters yesterday who would have done GREAT at the TPMS program, but they will also do GREAT at their home school.

Folks need to channel this anger into MCPS for removing tracking from middle school classes, rather than focusing their disappointment on Black and brown children.

Anonymous wrote:It looks like MCPS was conducting testing for acceptance into the CES to screen out the best, brightest students. They are just focusing on diversity to give those at a disadvantage to have a better learning environment or opportunity. Someone mentioned that evaluation also considered the student's academic peer group of highly able students. They also take into account that accelerated and enriched programs may also be provided at the selected middle schools (e.g., advanced English and advanced Math). This is a BS way of protecting themselves from any lawsuit. Their focus is not on the brightest, capable students. It is an unfortunate situation as the school system is run by a few special interest administrators whose goal is anything but academic excellence. These guys need to protect their jobs and cater to their special interest group friends.

Another poster who seems to believe that the only way to increase the number of black/Hispanic/poor kids in gifted programs is to admit undeserving black/Hispanic/poor kids and exclude deserving white/Asian/affluent kids.

It looks like MCPS was conducting testing for acceptance into the CES to screen out the best, brightest students. They are just focusing on diversity to give those at a disadvantage to have a better learning environment or opportunity. Someone mentioned that evaluation also considered the student's academic peer group of highly able students. They also take into account that accelerated and enriched programs may also be provided at the selected middle schools (e.g., advanced English and advanced Math). This is a BS way of protecting themselves from any lawsuit. Their focus is not on the brightest, capable students. It is an unfortunate situation as the school system is run by a few special interest administrators whose goal is anything but academic excellence. These guys need to protect their jobs and cater to their special interest group friends.

Seems like a lot iof HGC rejections in comparison to previous years to me. I've had 2 who have gone through HGC previously as well. Way more than half got into MSMs in both years. Probably like 75%. The number of people saying that their HGC kids who did well on test and does well in school got rejected seems unusual.

I don't get how this adheres to the issues raised by the study. it said that the admission process was too test dependent. So why have a system where there are no essays or teacher recs? The report discusses additional skills that don't display in test. So, why leave out activities and awards/achievements?

I also think it's great to ID more potential candidates, but then open up another MSM and add more spaces! MSM was already super tight & harder to get into than HGC or HS app programs.

Just glad my kids are through and out! Sorry for all of you dealing w/ rejection.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:23:01, I'm not sure what your point is. The Cogat is a well-recognized test; if there are a lot of people scoring in the 99th percentile it is not because standards are lower.

If you look at this chart, anything from 135-160 is the 99%ile on the Cogat.

https://www.nsd.org/Page/28102

In any event, there are not lot of people scoring in the 99 percentile. A few posters have said their child in HGC programs received those scores, had all As, and were still denied admission. They are stunned, naturally so given the data.

I've had two kids in the HGC program (when it was still the HGC program). In both years, roughly half of the fifth-graders in the HGC did not get into a middle-school application magnet program. These posters may be stunned, but I'm not stunned.

With those test scores and straight As, really?

Yes. Entrance to MS magnet has been always harder than HGC and HS magnet. I don't think there is any conspiracy going on, but agree that they mailed out the rejection first and we will soon see posts from the accepted.

Anonymous wrote:

I've had two kids in the HGC program (when it was still the HGC program). In both years, roughly half of the fifth-graders in the HGC did not get into a middle-school application magnet program. These posters may be stunned, but I'm not stunned.

With those test scores and straight As, really?