Anonymous wrote:
Your wild rant aside, on both sides people tend to pick on folks at the fringes, and suggest that EVERYONE is like that person. It's the workaholic, materialistic, negligent parent on one side and the gold-digger, gym-rat, negligent parent on the other (the angriest of these folks are usually thinking of their own mothers). No one can pretend those extremes don't exist. However, when a poster acts like everyone is one of those extremes, it triggers a response, because most people know that the reality for women is far from those extremes. Most working moms are in a household where both parents have to work to make ends meet, and they do their best to maximize their schedules to be with the kids as much as possible and they ensure that the kids are well cared for by a responsible adult until they are old enough to be independent. Most homes with SAHPs have one earner who can sustain the family lifestyle, or used to have two earners who saved a lot, or have family money, and the SAHP worked before kids and may work after kids. Most of these women are doing work of value to the community without pay at some point while at home (and have never done yoga in their lives).

Most moms I know have mom friends who work and mom friends who do not work, and they are friends with each other: the distinction is a non-issue. This makes me wonder whether the most vehemently opposed posters actually are not moms, because in my personal experience, the only people I have ever heard in person take a hard core line that all moms MUST work, are women who do not have children (and mostly those who also are not married, and one who was a married step-mom to older kids who had 4 parents and 6 local grandparents to split the work), or insecure men who are threatened by or annoyed with the women at work and simultaneously resentful of their own SAH spouse. These people are themselves on the fringes of the discussion.

Hello Voice of Reason!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, enough with the jealousy stuff. Is it so hard to understand that we don't give a hoot how much your husband makes. There are actually people in this world who find happiness in things other than money.

Lol. Like...spending time with their children rather than working for money?

Yes, exactly. With your snarky tone, you are insinuating that I have something against SAHMs. I don't.

Bragging about your husbands salary on this thread, though, makes you look sad. These are totally separate things. Methinks you are a braggart. Or just not a nice person.

Who is bragging? You know their are multiple people posting in here right? I personally haven't mentioned anything about salary.

Of course I do. Do you? You responded to my comment as though I have said something anti-SAHM, but I haven't. I wonder why you would make that snarky comment in response to criticism of bragging if you weren't one of them. If you say you are not, fine, but then what is your deal? Bad day?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, enough with the jealousy stuff. Is it so hard to understand that we don't give a hoot how much your husband makes. There are actually people in this world who find happiness in things other than money.

Lol. Like...spending time with their children rather than working for money?

+ 1

These posters talk out of both sides of their mouth. First it's about the money then it's about intangible things and supposedly no one cares about money. All of it laced with a heaping dose of criticism. None of it stands up.

Who are "these posters" exactly? You are conflating many completely different arguments to try and stick it to "someone", and you completely failed.

Saying that sometimes women have to work to survive AND that happiness can be found without a lot of money are not mutually exclusive things.
Saying that sometimes women have to work to survive and that women who use anonymous boards to brag about their HHI and then call others jealous are annoying is not somehow incompatible. Both are true.

In addition, don't you realize that the various posters on here are not the all same people?

Please just stop posting until you have something meaningful to add.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, enough with the jealousy stuff. Is it so hard to understand that we don't give a hoot how much your husband makes. There are actually people in this world who find happiness in things other than money.

Lol. Like...spending time with their children rather than working for money?

Yes, exactly. With your snarky tone, you are insinuating that I have something against SAHMs. I don't.

Bragging about your husbands salary on this thread, though, makes you look sad. These are totally separate things. Methinks you are a braggart. Or just not a nice person.

Who is bragging? You know their are multiple people posting in here right? I personally haven't mentioned anything about salary.

their = there

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well I personally think the women lashing out angrily in here (and we can all see it, don't think we don't) are doing so out of jealousy. If you're truly happy with your life, you don't feel the need to compare and try to take others down a notch. You just don't care. If you could go back in time, and you'd make the same choices again then there should be no need to argue with the other "side." Who cares.

+1 Million

One sort of nuance I'll add is that it doesn't necessarily mean jealousy in the sense that they want the opposite role than the one they have - they probably do not at all. But I do think it means that they are deeply angry that society doesn't reward them preferentially for whichever of the 2 scenarios they are choosing for themselves.

Quoted PP here and I agree. They are envious of people who are happy and content for whatever reason because it is so clear that they are not. Happy people do not act like this *waves hands around*

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, enough with the jealousy stuff. Is it so hard to understand that we don't give a hoot how much your husband makes. There are actually people in this world who find happiness in things other than money.

Lol. Like...spending time with their children rather than working for money?

Yes, exactly. With your snarky tone, you are insinuating that I have something against SAHMs. I don't.

Bragging about your husbands salary on this thread, though, makes you look sad. These are totally separate things. Methinks you are a braggart. Or just not a nice person.

Who is bragging? You know their are multiple people posting in here right? I personally haven't mentioned anything about salary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nope. Equality is equal pay for equal work. All of you SAHMs are super jealous of WOHMs. We made it, you didn't. You settled for a subservient existence.

Homeschool your daughters if you object. You can teach them useful things like body dsymorphia, yoga, MRS degree, etc... Or just send them to school and they'll pick up on your life choice while you shop at Costco after Pilates.

You sound quite disturbed. And mean. Do the life choices of others really make you angry or is something wrong in YOUR life? Do the world a favor and take a break from DCUM - go do your very important work already. Leave your children with a caring nanny as many hours as possible - they will be better off without your influence. Good lord.

It's logic. If you can't see it, try a new pose. You'll likely gain perspective in gender bias.

Logic? You have a rough road ahead.

First, your equal pay slogan has nothing to do with an individual woman's choice to stay at home for a while or forever. It is about two people doing the same job in the same organization getting equal compensation for the work they are doing in the here and now.

I believe what you are really worried about is the glass ceiling: the relative difficulty for a women still in child-bearing years to make it to the top based an inherent fear that she will have children and slow down or quit, or based on the reality that she did slow down or quit for a while and his having a hard time keeping up or getting back on track, due to her divided attention between work and family. The fact that more and more men are also slowing down once they become fathers is key to changing this issue, because you will never be able to tell a woman that she is not allowed to raise her own children her own way. And, of course, most workplaces are not family friendly yet, so it is true that childless people and people with a SAH spouse will have a workplace advantage over a working parent relying on paid childcare who has to respond to the schedule and needs of the family. A person pulled in two directions will be at a disadvantage relative to a person with one sole focus in life. But the bigger problem with the glass ceiling is that women who are accomplished and past their child bearing years, who share the qualifications of men up for the same position, are still not getting the jobs at the same rate as men: that has nothing to do with any fear that these women will suddenly become SAHMs, and that problem cannot be laid at the feet of highly educated SAHMS. That is a nonsense cop-out that fails to address the real problems.

Second, if you don't know a SAHM mom who "made it" in the sense that you are using that term, you really must live somewhere far away from D.C. I know a lot of former law partners, award-winning journalists, private practice physicians, etc. who are (older) SAHMs now, many of whom embarked on second careers after the kids started school. Also, a lot of people would argue that a person who grabs the brass ring, makes a ton of money, and then lets go and gets to be a SAHP, without sacrificing retirement or financial freedom, is the one who made it.

And finally, if you think marriage means the earning parent is master, especially if it is the man, then you really do not understand equality, feminism, or marriage.

Your wild rant aside, on both sides people tend to pick on folks at the fringes, and suggest that EVERYONE is like that person. It's the workaholic, materialistic, negligent parent on one side and the gold-digger, gym-rat, negligent parent on the other (the angriest of these folks are usually thinking of their own mothers). No one can pretend those extremes don't exist. However, when a poster acts like everyone is one of those extremes, it triggers a response, because most people know that the reality for women is far from those extremes. Most working moms are in a household where both parents have to work to make ends meet, and they do their best to maximize their schedules to be with the kids as much as possible and they ensure that the kids are well cared for by a responsible adult until they are old enough to be independent. Most homes with SAHPs have one earner who can sustain the family lifestyle, or used to have two earners who saved a lot, or have family money, and the SAHP worked before kids and may work after kids. Most of these women are doing work of value to the community without pay at some point while at home (and have never done yoga in their lives).

Most moms I know have mom friends who work and mom friends who do not work, and they are friends with each other: the distinction is a non-issue. This makes me wonder whether the most vehemently opposed posters actually are not moms, because in my personal experience, the only people I have ever heard in person take a hard core line that all moms MUST work, are women who do not have children (and mostly those who also are not married, and one who was a married step-mom to older kids who had 4 parents and 6 local grandparents to split the work), or insecure men who are threatened by or annoyed with the women at work and simultaneously resentful of their own SAH spouse. These people are themselves on the fringes of the discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, enough with the jealousy stuff. Is it so hard to understand that we don't give a hoot how much your husband makes. There are actually people in this world who find happiness in things other than money.

Lol. Like...spending time with their children rather than working for money?

Yes, exactly. With your snarky tone, you are insinuating that I have something against SAHMs. I don't.

Bragging about your husbands salary on this thread, though, makes you look sad. These are totally separate things. Methinks you are a braggart. Or just not a nice person.

Anonymous wrote:Well I personally think the women lashing out angrily in here (and we can all see it, don't think we don't) are doing so out of jealousy. If you're truly happy with your life, you don't feel the need to compare and try to take others down a notch. You just don't care. If you could go back in time, and you'd make the same choices again then there should be no need to argue with the other "side." Who cares.

+1 Million

One sort of nuance I'll add is that it doesn't necessarily mean jealousy in the sense that they want the opposite role than the one they have - they probably do not at all. But I do think it means that they are deeply angry that society doesn't reward them preferentially for whichever of the 2 scenarios they are choosing for themselves.

Well I personally think the women lashing out angrily in here (and we can all see it, don't think we don't) are doing so out of jealousy. If you're truly happy with your life, you don't feel the need to compare and try to take others down a notch. You just don't care. If you could go back in time, and you'd make the same choices again then there should be no need to argue with the other "side." Who cares.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, enough with the jealousy stuff. Is it so hard to understand that we don't give a hoot how much your husband makes. There are actually people in this world who find happiness in things other than money.

Lol. Like...spending time with their children rather than working for money?

+ 1

These posters talk out of both sides of their mouth. First it's about the money then it's about intangible things and supposedly no one cares about money. All of it laced with a heaping dose of criticism. None of it stands up.

criticism = hypocrisy

Depends on the neighborhood. Im in Petworth and I know several SAHM, WOHM, WAH and all kinds of in between flex schedule etc. I have never heard anyone make any kind of comment or seen any indication of resentment coming from any side of this debate. I think we all know there are pros and cons to everything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, enough with the jealousy stuff. Is it so hard to understand that we don't give a hoot how much your husband makes. There are actually people in this world who find happiness in things other than money.

Lol. Like...spending time with their children rather than working for money?

+ 1

These posters talk out of both sides of their mouth. First it's about the money then it's about intangible things and supposedly no one cares about money. All of it laced with a heaping dose of criticism. None of it stands up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will give you my thoughts.

a. If I see a rich SAHM with her Lululemons and Barre classes, driving around in her BMW I get annoyed because of jealousy. She must have married well enough to have to not worry about earning a living and enjoying a plush life. Must be nice.

b. Mostly what is disturbing to me is usually these SAHM types are very well educated and come from well off families to begin with. They grew up supporting women's rights and access to equal opportunities. They also tend to be tiger moms and fight to get their daighters into the best private schools and colleges and discuss plans to have their daughters become scientists and diplomats...

They themselves could have had fantastic careers. It just seems hypocritical, lazy and...fake.

c. The middle class SAHMs do not bother me. They were probably not very ambitious or well educated to begin with.

I am one of these women. What you might not know about me is that my husband is out of the house every work day for 11 hours. Plus he occasionally has to put in some hours at home or on the weekend. He has an unpredictable travel schedule. If a client wants him to pitch his product or take a meeting, he gets on a plane when it is convenient to them (usually the next day or so). If I was working full time, I'd still have to deal with that plus the demands of my own job plus the kids and the house. Fwiw he makes around 750k with occasional equity grants which helped us to pay off all our debt including school loans and our mortgage and to build our net worth from there. The salary alone is enough to cover all of our needs and most of our wants. So why would I work when the extra ~40k I might bring in would actually make my life more miserable and not better? That's not even taking into consideration the material cost of childcare or the psychological cost of putting our kids in wraparound care when they are used to mom being home with them all the time.

We also really like to travel as a family. It's one of our greatest joys and biggest splurges. We plan 4 week long trips per year plus occasional long weekends here and there. I also usually take the kids on a trip by ourselves for a week in the summer. If I got a job, I'd be locked into their schedule, which might not align with my husband's and I'd be lucky if I got 2 weeks off. One of my brothers works in an hourly position and doesn't get any paid time off at all.

I am highly educated and proud of it. I have a master's degree in history from a top R1 university. I might not use it to earn any money but I don't think you can "waste" your education. It's not like all of the knowledge I gained in my history classes suddenly leaked out of my head when I quit my job. I never set out to be the woman driving around in her beemer on her way to Barre class. It's just the way life worked out. Someday I will go back to work just to have something to do but right now is not a good time. You can really look at what I'm telling you and find something to judge? This is what I don't get about these kinds of conversations. They become so angry and derogatory so quickly but they involve real people who are just trying to do the best they can with what they have to work with. These are the cards I was dealt. I married a man with a very demanding job. There are pros and cons to that. One of the pros being the money, one of the cons being the schedule. More than that though, he loves what he does and I love that he loves it. If I want to stay married to him, I have to accommodate that. That's just how it is.

I just love when women whose husbands make $750,000 come on here philosophizing about what everyone else should do. It's laughable and incredibly myopic. Are you women going on anon about how important it is to stay home with children realize that 95% of women in America probably work because they HAVE to, right? So you're basically just judging people less fortunate than you. Classy.

There's also zero evidence that children with a stay-at-home parent do better in life. In fact some studies show the opposite. Take that as you will.

Lady, I'm not judging anyone. Did you read what I wrote? Where in that did you read judgement of working moms?? Seriously. Bold it and quote it to me because I know it's not there. What I said was, SAH works best for me and my family at this time in our lives because...and I laid out the reasons why. I am defending myself from judgmental attacks from people like you and asking you seriously why you feel the right to judge me. I have a master's degree in history and was a former secondary school teacher before I quit to stay at home. I hated teaching kids that age. Most of them were brats who I couldn't discipline because of constraints laid on by administrators and their parents who didn't want to deal with their attitude problems either. My original goal was to become a college professor but with the increasing commercialization of college and universities, they have switched to a system of hiring mostly adjuncts in lieu of tenure professors because they don't have to pay them a living wage with benefits.

Don't sweat her, PP. She is BLIND with jealousy. She is foaming at the mouth and her brain stopped working. Just ignore.

Actually the poster you're responding to is the one that sounds angry. Maybe she's lonely since her husband is basically just a dollar sign.

No I think she's angry about being judged for no reason.

Anonymous wrote:Oh, enough with the jealousy stuff. Is it so hard to understand that we don't give a hoot how much your husband makes. There are actually people in this world who find happiness in things other than money.

Lol. Like...spending time with their children rather than working for money?