Anonymous wrote:I am confused about why one poster is obsessed with the idea that the brand new school building is the "lesser" facility. It's a brand new building full of brand new things. The argument over "utilization" is one that is hard to get all riled up about for most people. One group will get a new building and shorter commutes, but the building will be closer to capacity initially. The other group will get an older building and short commutes and be less close to capacity initially. Both groups will get less overcrowding since they currently share the same building, meaning everyone will be able to spread out by 50%.

No plan is perfect and people can be disappointed that their favorite plan isn't the front runner, but the argument that there is massive inequality between these two schools over "utilization" under Option 7 is not going to get traction with most people. Most people are fine with Option 1 and the utilization balance is similar but reversed in terms of which school is nearer capacity.

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Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy. Both schools are going to be great and successful and majority wealthy (and white). The vast majority of the county would love to go to either one. It's stunning that people think they're somehow burdened by having something like 15% poor kids. Grow up and see how fortunate you all are.

I would pay good money to have my kids in a school with 15% poor kids.
People from less affluent areas (i.e.: not Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Potomac, etc) are so much easier to be with in so many ways...
You don't know what you're missing even.

Oy vey! Poor kids have nothing to do with it. It's the school that the poor kids are being sent to.

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Anonymous wrote:At any moment in this process CCES (tweedledee) and NCC (tweedledum) from the Triad can step up and offer themselves to be bussed to Westland in place of RCF so you want be uncomfortable in the overcrowded/poor middle school. Go for it!

Wait, I thought the triad was Somerset, Westbrook, and Bethesda. Wouldn't NCC and CC just be a duo? In any case, that's a snappy response to avoid an issue you don't want to address, but the reality is that those schools have no ability to self-select, and you know that.

You keep pushing this narrative about a "poor" middle school. If that helps you get through side-stepping substantive issues, fine, but no one here is complaining about their kids going to school with so-called "poor" kids. The issue is one of physical capacity. The new school starts off at a deficit compared to Westland. According to the Superintendent's report, it hits 99% capacity within five years, before any development kicks in. That's a stupid result when the whole point of building the school was to relieve over-crowding.

CCES, NCC and RHPS = Triad

So, there are two triads, one in the east, and one in the west? Wasn't this a martial arts movie?

No you are late to the discussion it seems. CCES, NCC and RHPS have always been the Triad from many historical threads, not the other schools you mentioned.

Correct. No one calls Westbrook, Somerset and Bethesda the Triad.

And there have been a few mentions of the former Leland Junior High School in this thread, as a member of the second site selection committee I can tell you that it was considered but deemed way way way way too small for a middle school. Anyone who is at all familiar with the current Lawton Community Center should be able to attest to that. I don't think there would be room for a large enough building there, much less a field.

Funny, it worked fine for many years as a middle school. It was not way to small. The town doesn't want all the noise and buses in the community. I grew up there. I remember the old Leland very well. Kids could be bused or walk to BCC for the field. Or, they do without like many other schools do.

+1. Or change the use of nearby parks like Elm Park and Norwood Park. Or get creative and start purchasing or reining land. Why aren't we digging the parking lots behind the east side of Wisconsin Avenue and topping them with greenspace. MCPS could have partnered with the county to have more parking and more greenspace. Or they could have built a much larger middle school at Norwood, with racial balance, by simply changing some of the roads.

The lack of creativity in the site selection process was apalling.

Norwood would have been a terrible choice for the new middle school. It's not that far from Westland and would still have forced kids from the East side of the district to commute a long way. It makes no sense to build two middle schools that close together.

Actually, Norwood was the most central site, but there are only so many minutes we have left on this earth. So, I don't know why we're wasting the. By reopening that discussion when I can look out my window and see a school being built.

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Anonymous wrote:At any moment in this process CCES (tweedledee) and NCC (tweedledum) from the Triad can step up and offer themselves to be bussed to Westland in place of RCF so you want be uncomfortable in the overcrowded/poor middle school. Go for it!

Wait, I thought the triad was Somerset, Westbrook, and Bethesda. Wouldn't NCC and CC just be a duo? In any case, that's a snappy response to avoid an issue you don't want to address, but the reality is that those schools have no ability to self-select, and you know that.

You keep pushing this narrative about a "poor" middle school. If that helps you get through side-stepping substantive issues, fine, but no one here is complaining about their kids going to school with so-called "poor" kids. The issue is one of physical capacity. The new school starts off at a deficit compared to Westland. According to the Superintendent's report, it hits 99% capacity within five years, before any development kicks in. That's a stupid result when the whole point of building the school was to relieve over-crowding.

CCES, NCC and RHPS = Triad

So, there are two triads, one in the east, and one in the west? Wasn't this a martial arts movie?

No you are late to the discussion it seems. CCES, NCC and RHPS have always been the Triad from many historical threads, not the other schools you mentioned.

Correct. No one calls Westbrook, Somerset and Bethesda the Triad.

And there have been a few mentions of the former Leland Junior High School in this thread, as a member of the second site selection committee I can tell you that it was considered but deemed way way way way too small for a middle school. Anyone who is at all familiar with the current Lawton Community Center should be able to attest to that. I don't think there would be room for a large enough building there, much less a field.

Funny, it worked fine for many years as a middle school. It was not way to small. The town doesn't want all the noise and buses in the community. I grew up there. I remember the old Leland very well. Kids could be bused or walk to BCC for the field. Or, they do without like many other schools do.

+1. Or change the use of nearby parks like Elm Park and Norwood Park. Or get creative and start purchasing or reining land. Why aren't we digging the parking lots behind the east side of Wisconsin Avenue and topping them with greenspace. MCPS could have partnered with the county to have more parking and more greenspace. Or they could have built a much larger middle school at Norwood, with racial balance, by simply changing some of the roads.

The lack of creativity in the site selection process was apalling.

Norwood would have been a terrible choice for the new middle school. It's not that far from Westland and would still have forced kids from the East side of the district to commute a long way. It makes no sense to build two middle schools that close together.

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Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy. Both schools are going to be great and successful and majority wealthy (and white). The vast majority of the county would love to go to either one. It's stunning that people think they're somehow burdened by having something like 15% poor kids. Grow up and see how fortunate you all are.

I would pay good money to have my kids in a school with 15% poor kids.
People from less affluent areas (i.e.: not Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Potomac, etc) are so much easier to be with in so many ways...
You don't know what you're missing even.

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Anonymous wrote:Did I read this right? Building a NEW school?! Such bulls$;!

What about the rest of the schools in the county? Confidently a new school is built for Potomac families. I'm sorry but no....!

What does this mean? The county owns property on Brickyard road but they can't possibly build a school in it - even though it's school property and zoned for a SCHOOL - because, well, some bullshit about some guy leading it for a billion times below market rate (basically nothing) and the people of Potomac not wanting anyone coming in a school bus down their precious roads as that will ruin their 'quality of life'.




So, they drive to over crowded schools (and fields - they can't have any athletic fields in Potomac either) and other people get schools built on their neighborhood park land. Totally fair and rational.

Anonymous wrote:This is all so crazy. Both schools are going to be great and successful and majority wealthy (and white). The vast majority of the county would love to go to either one. It's stunning that people think they're somehow burdened by having something like 15% poor kids. Grow up and see how fortunate you all are.

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Anonymous wrote: It sounds like it's an issue of priorities. Some people place a higher priority on convenience, other people place a higher priority on the quality of education, and still others fall somewhere in between.

To be fair, though, the Superintendent did focus on the transportation issue, and that has been raised for some here. A PP said that people who don't like option 7 should offer to go to the school they want. If that were an option, I would stay at Westland, even with the long commute, based on the facilities. ?

It can always be proposed..

I would chose Westland as well. I actually live much closer to Westland than the new middle and it is far more convenient for my kids to go there, transportation wise. My older bikes all the way to Westland on the trail to and from school. Takes him 15 minutes. Convenient and healthy for him and for our family. My younger sons will not get to do the same thing under this new alignment. If the Super is going to base his decision on proximity, then let the CCES kids be able to bike to school on the trail. But we all know the Superintendent isn't worried about how my kids get to school, just the ones at RCF.

I think Chevy Chase areas nearer to Westland should get to go to Westland. Heck give everyone the option, school choice! Let people in CCES, NCC and RCF decide where they want to go. I guarantee not all the RCF parents see the new middle as the be all end all and are steamed at the new middle lines too. The ones who are smart see the larger facility, fields and under capacity as the huge bonuses they are. No one wants to be in an overcrowded school. I would drive miles to get away from an overcrowded school, knowing that a school with fewer kids is ultimately better for my kids. I don't want my kids at a school that is at capacity on the first day it opens.

Why would you say they only care about RCF kids. The decision could have easily gone the other way. Furthermore, CCES and NCC decided that for the purposes of this study they didn't want to split. The board and super took that into consideration. You guys. Ouldve supported a split.

We say they only care about RCF kids because they addressed that neighborhood's needs above all others. The result is that all the communities involved now will go to an overcrowded school so that RCF does not have to commute as they do now. And when we complain, we're told that we don't like mixing with poor kids or that the socio-economic demographics that required us to ship our kindergarteners out of our neighborhoods and split articulations really don't matter all that much. I don't believe that, but, for the sake of a shorter commute, some people are making socio-economic demographics look like a convenient argument when it suits their purposes.

But it does consider the needs of other schools beyond RCF! It takes into account proximity of the other elementary schools. It also doesn't split up (i.e. "tear apart") the Triad schools. And RCF didn't get everything it wanted...it advocated for its programs not being split up, but they are - immersion stays at Westland under this option. So really no one fully won, and no one fully lost in terms of what they were asking for.

Whenever I wonder why we have a felon and a lunatic running for president, I need look no further than these posts. It''s not about who gets everything they want. It's about what's right and what's wrong. Inequitable Policy JEE - automatic COSA between middle and high school facilities are wrong, regardless of demographics. Option 7 creates inequitable academic facilities. It should not be implemented.

See above for a Triad trump talk..

Anonymous wrote:Did I read this right? Building a NEW school?! Such bulls$;!

What about the rest of the schools in the county? Confidently a new school is built for Potomac families. I'm sorry but no....!

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote: It sounds like it's an issue of priorities. Some people place a higher priority on convenience, other people place a higher priority on the quality of education, and still others fall somewhere in between.

To be fair, though, the Superintendent did focus on the transportation issue, and that has been raised for some here. A PP said that people who don't like option 7 should offer to go to the school they want. If that were an option, I would stay at Westland, even with the long commute, based on the facilities. ?

It can always be proposed..

I would chose Westland as well. I actually live much closer to Westland than the new middle and it is far more convenient for my kids to go there, transportation wise. My older bikes all the way to Westland on the trail to and from school. Takes him 15 minutes. Convenient and healthy for him and for our family. My younger sons will not get to do the same thing under this new alignment. If the Super is going to base his decision on proximity, then let the CCES kids be able to bike to school on the trail. But we all know the Superintendent isn't worried about how my kids get to school, just the ones at RCF.

I think Chevy Chase areas nearer to Westland should get to go to Westland. Heck give everyone the option, school choice! Let people in CCES, NCC and RCF decide where they want to go. I guarantee not all the RCF parents see the new middle as the be all end all and are steamed at the new middle lines too. The ones who are smart see the larger facility, fields and under capacity as the huge bonuses they are. No one wants to be in an overcrowded school. I would drive miles to get away from an overcrowded school, knowing that a school with fewer kids is ultimately better for my kids. I don't want my kids at a school that is at capacity on the first day it opens.

Why would you say they only care about RCF kids. The decision could have easily gone the other way. Furthermore, CCES and NCC decided that for the purposes of this study they didn't want to split. The board and super took that into consideration. You guys. Ouldve supported a split.

We say they only care about RCF kids because they addressed that neighborhood's needs above all others. The result is that all the communities involved now will go to an overcrowded school so that RCF does not have to commute as they do now. And when we complain, we're told that we don't like mixing with poor kids or that the socio-economic demographics that required us to ship our kindergarteners out of our neighborhoods and split articulations really don't matter all that much. I don't believe that, but, for the sake of a shorter commute, some people are making socio-economic demographics look like a convenient argument when it suits their purposes.

But it does consider the needs of other schools beyond RCF! It takes into account proximity of the other elementary schools. It also doesn't split up (i.e. "tear apart") the Triad schools. And RCF didn't get everything it wanted...it advocated for its programs not being split up, but they are - immersion stays at Westland under this option. So really no one fully won, and no one fully lost in terms of what they were asking for.

Whenever I wonder why we have a felon and a lunatic running for president, I need look no further than these posts. It''s not about who gets everything they want. It's about what's right and what's wrong. Inequitable Policy JEE - automatic COSA between middle and high school facilities are wrong, regardless of demographics. Option 7 creates inequitable academic facilities. It should not be implemented.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: It sounds like it's an issue of priorities. Some people place a higher priority on convenience, other people place a higher priority on the quality of education, and still others fall somewhere in between.

To be fair, though, the Superintendent did focus on the transportation issue, and that has been raised for some here. A PP said that people who don't like option 7 should offer to go to the school they want. If that were an option, I would stay at Westland, even with the long commute, based on the facilities. ?

It can always be proposed..

I would chose Westland as well. I actually live much closer to Westland than the new middle and it is far more convenient for my kids to go there, transportation wise. My older bikes all the way to Westland on the trail to and from school. Takes him 15 minutes. Convenient and healthy for him and for our family. My younger sons will not get to do the same thing under this new alignment. If the Super is going to base his decision on proximity, then let the CCES kids be able to bike to school on the trail. But we all know the Superintendent isn't worried about how my kids get to school, just the ones at RCF.

I think Chevy Chase areas nearer to Westland should get to go to Westland. Heck give everyone the option, school choice! Let people in CCES, NCC and RCF decide where they want to go. I guarantee not all the RCF parents see the new middle as the be all end all and are steamed at the new middle lines too. The ones who are smart see the larger facility, fields and under capacity as the huge bonuses they are. No one wants to be in an overcrowded school. I would drive miles to get away from an overcrowded school, knowing that a school with fewer kids is ultimately better for my kids. I don't want my kids at a school that is at capacity on the first day it opens.

Why would you say they only care about RCF kids. The decision could have easily gone the other way. Furthermore, CCES and NCC decided that for the purposes of this study they didn't want to split. The board and super took that into consideration. You guys. Ouldve supported a split.

We say they only care about RCF kids because they addressed that neighborhood's needs above all others. The result is that all the communities involved now will go to an overcrowded school so that RCF does not have to commute as they do now. And when we complain, we're told that we don't like mixing with poor kids or that the socio-economic demographics that required us to ship our kindergarteners out of our neighborhoods and split articulations really don't matter all that much. I don't believe that, but, for the sake of a shorter commute, some people are making socio-economic demographics look like a convenient argument when it suits their purposes.

But it does consider the needs of other schools beyond RCF! It takes into account proximity of the other elementary schools. It also doesn't split up (i.e. "tear apart") the Triad schools. And RCF didn't get everything it wanted...it advocated for its programs not being split up, but they are - immersion stays at Westland under this option. So really no one fully won, and no one fully lost in terms of what they were asking for.

Whenever I wonder why we have a felon and a lunatic running for president, I need look no further than these posts. It''s not about who gets everything they want. It's about what's right and what's wrong. Inequitable academic facilities are wrong, regardless of demographics. Option 7 creates inequitable academic facilities. It should not be implemented.

Thank you PP. You have hit the nail on the head. Option 7 is wrong for all 3 of the communities involved. Even if RCF can not initially see that. Why would they even want to be in an overcrowded school? I just don't get it! Fewer kids, a better facilities equal a better education, all at a school that would remain under capicity. Demographics are secondary although a distant second.

Which brings up the point, MCPS is talking out of both sides of it's mouth. Option 7 is wrong and if the people of RHPS CCES and NCC do not stand up and demand an equitable facility, then they are allowing themselves to be railroaded again, just as they have been railroaded with the whole RHPS experiment which has been splitting up families and friends for decades in the name of social equity. Social Demographics either matters or it doesn't but MCPS should not be allowed to have it both ways and rob the same set of RHPS kids TWICE. They need to show RHPS parents that the busing is not all for naught. If MCPS values proximity as the most important issue then split up RHPS into neighborhood schools and send the CCES kids to their closest school which is Westland by far. CCES kids can even bike to school!

But RHPS families need to rise up and fight this or else their kids will suffer for decades more just like they have under the RHPS venture. Enough already. Finally make it FAIR for EVERYONE!

Trumpian end of the world scenarios. You folks are looneys. What we say is best for you no matter what you decide.

OK, OP here. What the hell does Trump have to do with this? Is it that you don't have a substantive argument, and all you have left is insults (because that's a big insult)?

Uh no... I'm responding to the Triad folks who introduced Trump insults.

I thought the Trump insults were coming from the RCF people. Guys, when we can't figure out which side is insulting the other, we have a problem. Everybody, PAY ATTENTION WHEN YOU'RE BEING VILIFIED!

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:At any moment in this process CCES (tweedledee) and NCC (tweedledum) from the Triad can step up and offer themselves to be bussed to Westland in place of RCF so you want be uncomfortable in the overcrowded/poor middle school. Go for it!

Wait, I thought the triad was Somerset, Westbrook, and Bethesda. Wouldn't NCC and CC just be a duo? In any case, that's a snappy response to avoid an issue you don't want to address, but the reality is that those schools have no ability to self-select, and you know that.

You keep pushing this narrative about a "poor" middle school. If that helps you get through side-stepping substantive issues, fine, but no one here is complaining about their kids going to school with so-called "poor" kids. The issue is one of physical capacity. The new school starts off at a deficit compared to Westland. According to the Superintendent's report, it hits 99% capacity within five years, before any development kicks in. That's a stupid result when the whole point of building the school was to relieve over-crowding.

CCES, NCC and RHPS = Triad

So, there are two triads, one in the east, and one in the west? Wasn't this a martial arts movie?

No you are late to the discussion it seems. CCES, NCC and RHPS have always been the Triad from many historical threads, not the other schools you mentioned.

Correct. No one calls Westbrook, Somerset and Bethesda the Triad.

And there have been a few mentions of the former Leland Junior High School in this thread, as a member of the second site selection committee I can tell you that it was considered but deemed way way way way too small for a middle school. Anyone who is at all familiar with the current Lawton Community Center should be able to attest to that. I don't think there would be room for a large enough building there, much less a field.

Funny, it worked fine for many years as a middle school. It was not way to small. The town doesn't want all the noise and buses in the community. I grew up there. I remember the old Leland very well. Kids could be bused or walk to BCC for the field. Or, they do without like many other schools do.

+1. Or change the use of nearby parks like Elm Park and Norwood Park. Or get creative and start purchasing or reining land. Why aren't we digging the parking lots behind the east side of Wisconsin Avenue and topping them with greenspace. MCPS could have partnered with the county to have more parking and more greenspace. Or they could have built a much larger middle school at Norwood, with racial balance, by simply changing some of the roads.

The lack of creativity in the site selection process was apalling.