Anonymous wrote:So the boy's funeral is Fri. So amidst the devastating loss, coping with it, and getting condolences from all over, the family has the presence of mind to sift through the (I'm guessing) multiple offers from attorneys to represent them? It's really hard to understand certain American's mindsets in rushing to get legal representation and sue within a few days of such tragedy. Sure they should sue, but what's the rush or advantage to select someone right now? They would have had to take time and effort to make an informed decision in their selection.

From the news:

The Schwabs have hired Michael Rader and Edward Robertson Jr. from the Leawood law firm Bartimus Frickleton Robertson. The firm said neither the family nor its lawyers would make public statements about the incident until an investigation was concluded.

I'm sure that friends/possibly colleagues looking out for them helped them to find this legal representation. I really doubt that they were calling/interviewing law firms themselves.

So the boy's funeral is Fri. So amidst the devastating loss, coping with it, and getting condolences from all over, the family has the presence of mind to sift through the (I'm guessing) multiple offers from attorneys to represent them? It's really hard to understand certain American's mindsets in rushing to get legal representation and sue within a few days of such tragedy. Sure they should sue, but what's the rush or advantage to select someone right now? They would have had to take time and effort to make an informed decision in their selection.

From the news:

The Schwabs have hired Michael Rader and Edward Robertson Jr. from the Leawood law firm Bartimus Frickleton Robertson. The firm said neither the family nor its lawyers would make public statements about the incident until an investigation was concluded.

I am sure they hired the lawyers to assist them in fielding requests for public statements etc. and ensuring that the investigation is adequate, rather than in order to rush into court and being suing right this second. Also, since the father is a state legislator, he may well have familiarity with various law firms. Why are you focused on when they hired an attorney? Do you really view that as the relevant factor to take away from this situation?

Anonymous wrote:So the boy's funeral is Fri. So amidst the devastating loss, coping with it, and getting condolences from all over, the family has the presence of mind to sift through the (I'm guessing) multiple offers from attorneys to represent them? It's really hard to understand certain American's mindsets in rushing to get legal representation and sue within a few days of such tragedy. Sure they should sue, but what's the rush or advantage to select someone right now? They would have had to take time and effort to make an informed decision in their selection.

From the news:

The Schwabs have hired Michael Rader and Edward Robertson Jr. from the Leawood law firm Bartimus Frickleton Robertson. The firm said neither the family nor its lawyers would make public statements about the incident until an investigation was concluded.

Because Schlitterbahn has been lawyered up from moment one. Its to even the playing field. I don't blame the parents one bit. In addition to being devastated, they are PISSED. And rightly so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I might have missed this earlier, my apologies in advance. How is the testing/inspection done in this area different than what is done in Kansas? Do we have state agencies doing the inspections and they do not? Or are there no requirements for daily inspections by park staff, etc?

I saw a news show in the last year or two at Six Flags that said park staff walk the tracks, run the rides w/o people, and then w/ park workers every morning before they open. Just trying to follow how this is different than what is done (or not done in Kansas).

All parks do daily inspections like at Six Flags. Even the ones in Kansas. In MD, someone from the state inspects on an annual basis. In VA, someone certified by the state inspects before operation. DC has no amusement parks. PA requires monthly inspection by a qualified inspector.

I don't count a couple of teenagers running the ride empty as an "inspection." That's what they do in KS.

So the boy's funeral is Fri. So amidst the devastating loss, coping with it, and getting condolences from all over, the family has the presence of mind to sift through the (I'm guessing) multiple offers from attorneys to represent them? It's really hard to understand certain American's mindsets in rushing to get legal representation and sue within a few days of such tragedy. Sure they should sue, but what's the rush or advantage to select someone right now? They would have had to take time and effort to make an informed decision in their selection.

From the news:

The Schwabs have hired Michael Rader and Edward Robertson Jr. from the Leawood law firm Bartimus Frickleton Robertson. The firm said neither the family nor its lawyers would make public statements about the incident until an investigation was concluded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why these talented designers did not hire real engineers to double check the design of this ride.

Because the real engineers didn't want to touch this project.

Did they shop this around for engineering design help?

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why these talented designers did not hire real engineers to double check the design of this ride.

Because the real engineers didn't want to touch this project.

Anonymous wrote:
I might have missed this earlier, my apologies in advance. How is the testing/inspection done in this area different than what is done in Kansas? Do we have state agencies doing the inspections and they do not? Or are there no requirements for daily inspections by park staff, etc?

I saw a news show in the last year or two at Six Flags that said park staff walk the tracks, run the rides w/o people, and then w/ park workers every morning before they open. Just trying to follow how this is different than what is done (or not done in Kansas).

All parks do daily inspections like at Six Flags. Even the ones in Kansas. In MD, someone from the state inspects on an annual basis. In VA, someone certified by the state inspects before operation. DC has no amusement parks. PA requires monthly inspection by a qualified inspector.

I don't understand why these talented designers did not hire real engineers to double check the design of this ride.

The injury to this boy was horrific and that netting that they used may have prevented the raft from going airborne and being launched off the tube entirely. But did they not account for what would happen to a person on that ride if they were launched into that netting? It appears that there are even designed gaps at points along the netting. If someone slammed into the edge of the netting at one of those gaps they would sustain an horrific injury - whether they themselves went airborne off the raft or the raft was launched upwards into that area.

I'm wondering now how many near misses there were before this happened to Caleb.

It seems like the biggest issue here was the dumb Velcro straps. We got to a LOT of amusement parks, and I don't think I've ever seen anything attached by Velcro. There are two big problems with Velcro: (1) it wears down over time/use especially as fuzz gets stuck in it; and (2) it's really prone to user error. Amusement park rides should not really have *any* room for user error, particularly when they allow children to ride. Most rides have a tug strap on the buckle, so that the ride attendant can come along and tug it to make sure that the rider has correctly fastened the buckle. I have definitely seen riders who did not fasten correctly, and it came apart. My own child once had a belt come off mid ride because she did not fasten it correctly and apparently the ride operator did NOT check hers before they took off. (I was not with her on that ride.) I can imagine that if the Velcro wasn't really aligned properly, it would not be readily apparent to the ride operator (who was probably a teenager making minimum wage).


That aside, I do think that the rides, even at the "good park" are not necessarily correctly tested for really thin children. I can recall once as a child being able to slip out from under a lap bar that was fully pulled down. (I was extremely thin.) It horrified the woman next to me, but I slipped out and jumped off the ride before it started. (It was not a super big coaster.) I have noticed that, even at places like Hershey, my very thin children would appear to be able to do the same thing with the rides where there is just a lap bar (particularly if you are sitting on a bench with larger adults, there is often a gap of several inches between your thighs and the lap bar, if you are a small person.) I think the engineering theory is that this is okay because in those rides, the G forces push you against the bar, rather than up and over or down and under....but you really need to trust that those engineers have made those calculations correctly AND you need to trust that you child is going to sit the way that the test dummies sit...not be squirming/slouching down in the seat.

Anonymous wrote:

I want to feel like it would be okay for my kid to ride a water slide again. I know mostly it is, but I can't imagine the guilt his parents are feeling. Their kid's death wasn't their fault, but I'm sure they blame themselves irrational as it is.

I don't think you should give up on most water slide parks, really. They are professionally designed and engineered by companies like WhiteWater Inc. or ADG or ProSlide. You will see similar designs and slides and attractions in parks like Great Wolf Lodge, The Boardwalk at Hersheypark, Six Flags, etc. - attractions that are tested and true. Accidents can still happen, but they are largely the result of rider error or staff error (not following height/weight requirements, not properly checking equipment, etc.)

No other park is going to build a Verruckt. It was designed by talented people (they hold a lot of patents on certain waterpark technology), but they lacked engineering degrees. The design process was largely trial and error, and they had to tear half of it down and rebuild when their initial design launched the test rafts. The initial design was created with roller coaster engineering software and didn't take into account the effects of the water on the ride. And then the other "safety" elements were jerry-rigged - the velcro harness straps and the netting. And based on witnesses, it seems like it wasn't maintained at a high level, as there are a lot of reports of loose/failing velcro straps and the scale on the top level not working for more than a week. And after more than a year of operation, they relaxed the safety requirements for the ride by removing the 14 and up requiremet. This will probably turn out to be a classic and terrible example of the Swiss cheese model of failure: a ride that pushes the limits of safety (deliberately built in a state with zero regulation for a slide of this height and speed) and has post-design questionable safety features added, with the ride requirements relaxed after a year, with relaxed maintenance (failing velcro straps and non functioning scale), and lax staff, the planning and safety holes lined up and a young boy lost his life in a catastrophic manner. Given the gruesome nature of poor Caleb's horrific death, I really doubt that the ride will reopen.

My kids and I are huge roller coaster fans, and we like water parks as well. I love reading articles about how engineering companies like B&M or Intamin design the thrill rides that they do. But I watched the documentary on Verruckt when it was being built and I read the Smithsonian article and I thought it was crazy. Accidents can still happen, but giving up on attractions like Intimidator 305 at KD (seriously one of the best coasters on the East Coast) or the Coastline Plunge at Hersheypark is like giving up on your family car because your crazy uncle blew up his experimental rocket car in the desert.

People.com is reporting that he was, in fact, decapitated. My heart breaks for this family. Somelne should go to jail for this criminal negligence by the park. https://www.google.com/amp/www.people.com/people/article/amp/0,,21023328,00.html?client=safari

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are all adults now....but sometimes they make light fun of how neurotic I was about amusement park rides, especially the transient kind in county fairs or set ups. Well, I was. At least on my watch they weren't allowed on ferris wheels or roller coasters. I was cautious about the huge ones in established parks. I always felt the speed was detrimental to neurological health.

+1 Our parents never allowed my sisters and me to ride any traveling carnival roller coaster or ferris wheel because our mom had seen someone fall out of a ride at Va Beach. My husband and I did the same for our kids.

I grew up in AZ and would go with friends to various carnivales/fairs. I never went on any rides because I had heard on the news that AZ had no inspection laws when they were reporting on an accident in another state. I was considered the biggest nerd at 10! My friends always brought me to hold their stuff while they went on the rides though. I still hate all rides! Even Disney!

I had to same rule growing up but my parents always made the distinction between them and Busch Gardens/Kings Dominion/Disney, etc. (I now know these are called "fixed-site") - my parents used to joke, "There needs to be someone you can sue, in order to keep them honest..."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are all adults now....but sometimes they make light fun of how neurotic I was about amusement park rides, especially the transient kind in county fairs or set ups. Well, I was. At least on my watch they weren't allowed on ferris wheels or roller coasters. I was cautious about the huge ones in established parks. I always felt the speed was detrimental to neurological health.

+1 Our parents never allowed my sisters and me to ride any traveling carnival roller coaster or ferris wheel because our mom had seen someone fall out of a ride at Va Beach. My husband and I did the same for our kids.

I grew up in AZ and would go with friends to various carnivales/fairs. I never went on any rides because I had heard on the news that AZ had no inspection laws when they were reporting on an accident in another state. I was considered the biggest nerd at 10! My friends always brought me to hold their stuff while they went on the rides though. I still hate all rides! Even Disney!

Anonymous wrote:My kids are all adults now....but sometimes they make light fun of how neurotic I was about amusement park rides, especially the transient kind in county fairs or set ups. Well, I was. At least on my watch they weren't allowed on ferris wheels or roller coasters. I was cautious about the huge ones in established parks. I always felt the speed was detrimental to neurological health.

Where do you draw the line? So many optional activities carry risk: sports, rafting/tubing, swimming, horseback riding, zip lining, rock climbing, etc. I would guess statistically roller coasters have among the lowest risk of "thrill-seeking" activities.