Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that link is very informative.

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

No, I'm simply pointing out that what pp said (Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman bc she doesn't meet their negative stereotypes) was racist. Do you get defensive and accuse PoC of playing the race card every time someone points out racism? Maybe you're the one with the problem.

It's really common for white people to react the way you just did when they're called out for being racist. The scholarly term for it is white fragility.


http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race

Yawn. And everything a POC doesn't like is racist. Your argument is invalid. It's really reaching to call every opinion or statement that disagrees with you racist.

You're dismissive and her argument is valid. PP had said "Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement." Which may be fine if she knew the poster in real life to repeatedly cry "racist", but since she doesn't, she applied to her post the thinking that every time a POC complains about racism she's playing the race card.

Nuance is lost on her, PP. The point, that Beyonce's is not the sole experience of "blackness" and her class privilege gives her a unique and rarified perspective, is logic. The obvious, that Beyonce doesn't know how to be ALL black women, nor is Beyonce's perspective to be taken as the epitome of "blackness", is also logic. If anyone on this thread had actually said "Beyonce isn't really black because she doesn't fit the stereotype of black poverty" then PP would have a point. It would, in fact, be racist to say that.

But nobody said that. The original PP came kinda close by saying, clumsily, that "this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman." Taken in context, it's clear that the original PP was talking about Beyonce's class privilege. This was also pointed out by the second PP, to whom Ms. RaceCard replied. If she had wanted to understand, it was there to understand.

Sometimes people just like to react, and blame "whiteness" and call other people reactionary. It's sad, but it happens.

As if being middle and upper middle class is not a valid or frequent black experience.
Your limited idea of blackness is nerve wracking.

Your limited reading comprehension is annoying af. Nobody on this thread has said anything about the validity of blackness/the black experience. Merely that Beyonce's experience is not that of a POC in poverty, which is nothing more than fact/logic. Nobody said the experience of a POC in poverty is The Black Experience™ either. What has been said, contrary to your claims of some "limited idea of blackness" is"..."Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience" and "...there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters."

So maybe you should practice reading before commenting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly is Beyoncé appropriating an experience that is not authentically hers?

"My daddy Alabama, mama Louisiana. You mix that negro with the creole, make a Texas bamma. I like my baby's hair with baby hair and Afros. I like my negro nose with Jackson 5 notrils. Earned all this money, but they never take the country out me."

Beyonce's father is from Alabama, and her mother is a creole from Louisiana. She grew up in Texas. And her poor daughter Blue has received plenty of flack for her natural hair and ethnic nose.

Sounds pretty authentic to me.

So according to you the fact that beyonces parents were born in Alabama & Louisiana make her authentically black? That makes zero sense. You've picked one song to demonstrate the lyrics show where her parents were born, what is black about that?

And beyonce had nostrils, too, before she had the nose job.

NP. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but the fact that both of her parents are black make her black. What is "authentically black" anyway?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nuance is lost on her, PP. The point, that Beyonce's is not the sole experience of "blackness" and her class privilege gives her a unique and rarified perspective, is logic. The obvious, that Beyonce doesn't know how to be ALL black women, nor is Beyonce's perspective to be taken as the epitome of "blackness", is also logic. If anyone on this thread had actually said "Beyonce isn't really black because she doesn't fit the stereotype of black poverty" then PP would have a point. It would, in fact, be racist to say that.

But nobody said that. The original PP came kinda close by saying, clumsily, that "this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman." Taken in context, it's clear that the original PP was talking about Beyonce's class privilege. This was also pointed out by the second PP, to whom Ms. RaceCard replied. If she had wanted to understand, it was there to understand.

Sometimes people just like to react, and blame "whiteness" and call other people reactionary. It's sad, but it happens.

Actually, that was exactly what was said. You conveniently neglected to highlight the part where pp said the album wasn't Beyonce's experience as a Black woman, and that because of her upper middle class background she didn't even know what it was like to be a Black women.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly is Beyoncé appropriating an experience that is not authentically hers?

"My daddy Alabama, mama Louisiana. You mix that negro with the creole, make a Texas bamma. I like my baby's hair with baby hair and Afros. I like my negro nose with Jackson 5 notrils. Earned all this money, but they never take the country out me."

Beyonce's father is from Alabama, and her mother is a creole from Louisiana. She grew up in Texas. And her poor daughter Blue has received plenty of flack for her natural hair and ethnic nose.

Sounds pretty authentic to me.

So according to you the fact that beyonces parents were born in Alabama & Louisiana make her authentically black? That makes zero sense. You've picked one song to demonstrate the lyrics show where her parents were born, what is black about that?

And beyonce had nostrils, too, before she had the nose job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly is Beyoncé appropriating an experience that is not authentically hers?

"My daddy Alabama, mama Louisiana. You mix that negro with the creole, make a Texas bamma. I like my baby's hair with baby hair and Afros. I like my negro nose with Jackson 5 notrils. Earned all this money, but they never take the country out me."

Beyonce's father is from Alabama, and her mother is a creole from Louisiana. She grew up in Texas. And her poor daughter Blue has received plenty of flack for her natural hair and ethnic nose.

Sounds pretty authentic to me.

So according to you the fact that beyonces parents were born in Alabama & Louisiana make her authentically black? That makes zero sense. You've picked one song to demonstrate the lyrics show where her parents were born, what is black about that?

And beyonce had nostrils, too, before she had the nose job.

Anonymous wrote:How exactly is Beyoncé appropriating an experience that is not authentically hers?

"My daddy Alabama, mama Louisiana. You mix that negro with the creole, make a Texas bamma. I like my baby's hair with baby hair and Afros. I like my negro nose with Jackson 5 notrils. Earned all this money, but they never take the country out me."

Beyonce's father is from Alabama, and her mother is a creole from Louisiana. She grew up in Texas. And her poor daughter Blue has received plenty of flack for her natural hair and ethnic nose.

Sounds pretty authentic to me.

Anonymous wrote:Nuance is lost on her, PP. The point, that Beyonce's is not the sole experience of "blackness" and her class privilege gives her a unique and rarified perspective, is logic. The obvious, that Beyonce doesn't know how to be ALL black women, nor is Beyonce's perspective to be taken as the epitome of "blackness", is also logic. If anyone on this thread had actually said "Beyonce isn't really black because she doesn't fit the stereotype of black poverty" then PP would have a point. It would, in fact, be racist to say that.

But nobody said that. The original PP came kinda close by saying, clumsily, that "this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman." Taken in context, it's clear that the original PP was talking about Beyonce's class privilege. This was also pointed out by the second PP, to whom Ms. RaceCard replied. If she had wanted to understand, it was there to understand.

Sometimes people just like to react, and blame "whiteness" and call other people reactionary. It's sad, but it happens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that link is very informative.

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

No, I'm simply pointing out that what pp said (Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman bc she doesn't meet their negative stereotypes) was racist. Do you get defensive and accuse PoC of playing the race card every time someone points out racism? Maybe you're the one with the problem.

It's really common for white people to react the way you just did when they're called out for being racist. The scholarly term for it is white fragility.


http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race

Yawn. And everything a POC doesn't like is racist. Your argument is invalid. It's really reaching to call every opinion or statement that disagrees with you racist.

You're dismissive and her argument is valid. PP had said "Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement." Which may be fine if she knew the poster in real life to repeatedly cry "racist", but since she doesn't, she applied to her post the thinking that every time a POC complains about racism she's playing the race card.

Nuance is lost on her, PP. The point, that Beyonce's is not the sole experience of "blackness" and her class privilege gives her a unique and rarified perspective, is logic. The obvious, that Beyonce doesn't know how to be ALL black women, nor is Beyonce's perspective to be taken as the epitome of "blackness", is also logic. If anyone on this thread had actually said "Beyonce isn't really black because she doesn't fit the stereotype of black poverty" then PP would have a point. It would, in fact, be racist to say that.

But nobody said that. The original PP came kinda close by saying, clumsily, that "this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman." Taken in context, it's clear that the original PP was talking about Beyonce's class privilege. This was also pointed out by the second PP, to whom Ms. RaceCard replied. If she had wanted to understand, it was there to understand.

Sometimes people just like to react, and blame "whiteness" and call other people reactionary. It's sad, but it happens.

As if being middle and upper middle class is not a valid or frequent black experience.
Your limited idea of blackness is nerve wracking.

Anonymous wrote:How exactly is Beyoncé appropriating an experience that is not authentically hers?

"My daddy Alabama, mama Louisiana. You mix that negro with the creole, make a Texas bamma. I like my baby's hair with baby hair and Afros. I like my negro nose with Jackson 5 notrils. Earned all this money, but they never take the country out me."

Beyonce's father is from Alabama, and her mother is a creole from Louisiana. She grew up in Texas. And her poor daughter Blue has received plenty of flack for her natural hair and ethnic nose.

Sounds pretty authentic to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that link is very informative.

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

No, I'm simply pointing out that what pp said (Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman bc she doesn't meet their negative stereotypes) was racist. Do you get defensive and accuse PoC of playing the race card every time someone points out racism? Maybe you're the one with the problem.

It's really common for white people to react the way you just did when they're called out for being racist. The scholarly term for it is white fragility.


http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race

Yawn. And everything a POC doesn't like is racist. Your argument is invalid. It's really reaching to call every opinion or statement that disagrees with you racist.

You're dismissive and her argument is valid. PP had said "Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement." Which may be fine if she knew the poster in real life to repeatedly cry "racist", but since she doesn't, she applied to her post the thinking that every time a POC complains about racism she's playing the race card.

Nuance is lost on her, PP. The point, that Beyonce's is not the sole experience of "blackness" and her class privilege gives her a unique and rarified perspective, is logic. The obvious, that Beyonce doesn't know how to be ALL black women, nor is Beyonce's perspective to be taken as the epitome of "blackness", is also logic. If anyone on this thread had actually said "Beyonce isn't really black because she doesn't fit the stereotype of black poverty" then PP would have a point. It would, in fact, be racist to say that.

But nobody said that. The original PP came kinda close by saying, clumsily, that "this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman." Taken in context, it's clear that the original PP was talking about Beyonce's class privilege. This was also pointed out by the second PP, to whom Ms. RaceCard replied. If she had wanted to understand, it was there to understand.

Sometimes people just like to react, and blame "whiteness" and call other people reactionary. It's sad, but it happens.

Anonymous wrote:Beyoncé took time to explain to you she was dressed up as a love goddess? Funny, because the article from the director states the violence & dress was inspired by a video from the 80s (of a white woman hitting cars with baseball bats).

Don't state assumptions because things LOOK the same. State facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you guys would be fine if Taylor Swift sang "You better call Shaneequa with the afro" and all the white women retorted "this is not about you or your experience, you have no place to comment"?

I doubt that. You'd be screaming it was racist and how dare she.... and all of your loud voices would have plenty to say.

Please don't forget this album is not Beyonce's experience as a black woman. She grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, both parents had excellent jobs, she had the best of everything, went to private school, and her dad quit his job to manage her budding career after she went to a school for the performing arts. I doubt SHE knows what it's like to be a black woman. Some other poetic visionary genius whittled this together and is using Bey as their vehicle.

Totally agree with everything the previous poster said about enjoying the album while it is not necessarily about "you".

Wow, that link is very informative.

Wow, that's shockingly ignorant. Since when does class privilege erase Blackness? I'm upper middle class, my parents had excellent jobs, and I went to private school. That doesn't make me any less Black.

You're an outsider. You're seriously overstepping your boundaries by trying to define Beyoncés Blackness.

Nobody's "erasing Blackness". That's not even possible, because "Blackness" isn't just one thing, or one experience. PP is pointing out, somewhat ham-handedly, that the stereotypical idea of "blackness" and Beyonce's inarguably privileged upbringing are at odds. That doesn't make Beyonce any less black (there's a whole spectrum of "black"), but intersectionality matters. Beyonce's class privilege alters, somewhat radically, her experience of "blackness". Rich, privileged people don't know life the way poor, underprivileged people in underserved communities do.

When rich, privileged people start singing about/to the stereotype of blackness outside their experience, we should be aware of it. Can she, as an artist, channel the experience(s) of others, and represent things outside her own personal culture and upbringing? Sure. Are those things authentically hers? No. Do the people to whom those things authentically belong have a right, and responsibility, to shed some light on how she has appropriated their culture/experience for profit? Yes. That is an actual thing that #notjustwhitepeople do.

There's more to the Black experience than the struggle. It's racist to say that Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman because she doesn't measure up to some negative stereotype - That Black women are "struggling, poor, unprivileged, disrespected, discriminated against [and] suffering".

Is "racist" your response to everything you don't like? Stating s fact doesn't make something racist and PP is speaking to one area of Beyoncé's experience - her upbringing and privilege. Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement.

No, I'm simply pointing out that what pp said (Beyoncé doesn't know what it's like to be a Black woman bc she doesn't meet their negative stereotypes) was racist. Do you get defensive and accuse PoC of playing the race card every time someone points out racism? Maybe you're the one with the problem.

It's really common for white people to react the way you just did when they're called out for being racist. The scholarly term for it is white fragility.


http://www.alternet.org/culture/why-white-people-freak-out-when-theyre-called-out-about-race

Yawn. And everything a POC doesn't like is racist. Your argument is invalid. It's really reaching to call every opinion or statement that disagrees with you racist.

You're dismissive and her argument is valid. PP had said "Stop crying racist everytime someone presents you with a logical argument or statement." Which may be fine if she knew the poster in real life to repeatedly cry "racist", but since she doesn't, she applied to her post the thinking that every time a POC complains about racism she's playing the race card.