Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 13:21     Subject: Re:Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. ...

If the Bethesda Magazine numbers are accurate, then not nearly as many are getting admitted to Ivies as from the local private schools. Certainly on a percentage-of-applicants basis, and perhaps even on an absolute-number basis.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 13:18     Subject: Re:Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am still as to what, if anything, is new here. Everybody is clear that hooks: athlete, URM, celebrity and to various extent alumni. That is true across the board -- these kids have a high likelihood of getting in from anywhere. The question is, if you are unhooked, and there are 3-4 admissible hooked candidates from your school applying to Yale or whatever, does their presence significantly lower the chance of a high achieving unhooked kid relative to an unhooked kid in another school down the road? Does that differ by colleges, HYPS vs. the rest of Ivy League + Chicago + Duke, say ....

Yes, that is the challenge for the unhooked in classes populated with hooks. If your son or daughter is in a junior class with 1-2 recruited athletes and also 2-3 more kids who are overtly family and monetary hooked, that will foreclose on the chances for your unhooked and the other unhooked in the same class. ....

This claim seems completely and totally at odds with the 11 admitted from Sidwell. The only way your claim would be consistent with the 11 from Sidwell is if all 11 are highly hooked. I believe the people who have posted here that not all 11 had hooks. So how can your claim be true?
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 12:54     Subject: Re:Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:The part that I can't tell is whether the hooked kids are actually blocking my kid's access to top schools or whether hardly anyone gets in without hooks of some kind (given DC suburban location). Perhaps all they are doing is lowering his chances from 25% to 10% at two or three specific reach schools. The latter would bother me much less given that most of this probably happens at ED and EA when the hooked kids are applying to only one school each at that point.


25% to 10%? Gosh, that sucks.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 12:31     Subject: Re:Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:The part that I can't tell is whether the hooked kids are actually blocking my kid's access to top schools or whether hardly anyone gets in without hooks of some kind (given DC suburban location). Perhaps all they are doing is lowering his chances from 25% to 10% at two or three specific reach schools. The latter would bother me much less given that most of this probably happens at ED and EA when the hooked kids are applying to only one school each at that point.


Unhooked kids do get into Ivies from the more competitive local publics--I know quite a few, including unhooked DC who got into a so-called top Ivy. I also know 3 athletic recruits from the publics to this particular Ivy, but without exception they were from VA or MD magnets. Getting into a magnet in the first place is of course a different sort of hurdle. So this is all anecdotal, but make of it what you will.

Of course, Ivy matriculation may not (should not) be your only goal. There are many reasons we did private for elementary school and for many families the same reasons are still true in high school.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 12:13     Subject: Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
I can't believe how many families in this area have "hooks". The amount of wealth here astounds me sometimes. So different than when I was growing up.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 11:52     Subject: Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
I am not the PP, but I saw this happen directly last year. Six kids were accepted to a top school, a couple denied and one wait-listed. The wait-listed kid was accepted the same day one of the six declined the offer. Possibly a coincidence, but I think six was the max that particular college would take from our school.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 11:34     Subject: Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:Kids do get compared within the same school. I know this first hand. My kid got waitlisted and was told that he would get a spot if a better qualified candidate (at the same school)- better grades - turned it down. He didn't get in. That's life. Nobody thought the system was broken. Reasonable decision by the school. But it was a direct result of comparing two kids at the same school

Tell us more. An admissions counselor from the college told you this directly? I've never heard of anything like this. Very strange.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 11:13     Subject: Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
You'll never be able to quantify it, but a hooked kid is always going to have an advantage over an unhooked kid. And all hooks are not of equal weight. If you get lucky, your unhooked kid will apply in a year with fewer hooked kids.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 11:06     Subject: Re:Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
The part that I can't tell is whether the hooked kids are actually blocking my kid's access to top schools or whether hardly anyone gets in without hooks of some kind (given DC suburban location). Perhaps all they are doing is lowering his chances from 25% to 10% at two or three specific reach schools. The latter would bother me much less given that most of this probably happens at ED and EA when the hooked kids are applying to only one school each at that point.
Anonymous
Post 10/29/2015 09:55     Subject: Re:Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:I am still as to what, if anything, is new here. Everybody is clear that hooks: athlete, URM, celebrity and to various extent alumni. That is true across the board -- these kids have a high likelihood of getting in from anywhere. The question is, if you are unhooked, and there are 3-4 admissible hooked candidates from your school applying to Yale or whatever, does their presence significantly lower the chance of a high achieving unhooked kid relative to an unhooked kid in another school down the road? Does that differ by colleges, HYPS vs. the rest of Ivy League + Chicago + Duke, say ....


Yes, that is the challenge for the unhooked in classes populated with hooks. If your son or daughter is in a junior class with 1-2 recruited athletes and also 2-3 more kids who are overtly family and monetary hooked, that will foreclose on the chances for your unhooked and the other unhooked in the same class. In those instances is is better to be the unhooked top student at a local public versus the weighted coin at a select private; assuming the matriculation result is what you are intending the investment in a private school to be worth. Less than a decade ago a parent made quite a fool of herself suing Groton School because the nasty 'ole hooks system left her son -- an outstanding student -- out of the picture and prejudiced out of the Ivy list he wanted. That went nowhere, which leads to maybe an effort to tell HYPS, et al that their selection criteria needs fixing. That also goes nowhere. It is a winners curse of sorts in some instances to be a merit only applicant in a class where there are advantages to other kids in the same class...some fair and some unfair, and the debates get you nowhere.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2015 20:53     Subject: Re:Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
I am still as to what, if anything, is new here. Everybody is clear that hooks: athlete, URM, celebrity and to various extent alumni. That is true across the board -- these kids have a high likelihood of getting in from anywhere. The question is, if you are unhooked, and there are 3-4 admissible hooked candidates from your school applying to Yale or whatever, does their presence significantly lower the chance of a high achieving unhooked kid relative to an unhooked kid in another school down the road? Does that differ by colleges, HYPS vs. the rest of Ivy League + Chicago + Duke, say ....
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2015 19:31     Subject: Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:Sorry, maybe the point back wasn't blunt enough. The Sidwell 10-11 or my son's school 8 does nothing to disprove the "school quota" claim. The quota gets blown if - and only if - there are factors like recruited athletes or the types of alum donor kin the college can't say no to. Those statistical outliers are not a candle that burns for hope, and does nothing to prove there really isn't a hard cap for concentration to one quality prep. Remember, in New England there are at least a dozen boarding preps believing they are the special one, and in DC alone there are a few day preps thinking so as well. That doesn't make it so. The 8 to Yale from this boarding school one year over the usual 3 maybe 4 was explained by legacy big bucks, soccer, ice hockey and lacrosse...not by the very special talents of that class at that school on itself. I would impute with due respect that the Sidwell 10-11 was constituted with several super freaky prestige / big money / legacy / political hooks and then sports. To believe otherwise is nuts.


But of course.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2015 19:25     Subject: Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:Colleges have no choice but to compare kids within schools, because no college can really afford to concentrate away from other comparatives (geographical, gender/ethnic, recruited athletes, legacies with a bias to donors, etc.). Having a kid who was of equal merit to get into any school, who actually did apply to all 8 Ivies and got into 2, we realized that the algorithm is complicated down to the prep level. The reason why he didn't have a chance at Brown or Yale that year? Simple, the per diem for those spots went to a couple kids recruited for sports and a couple more who were donor legacies with a real family hook. We knew that going in, and could accept it in the end. I think at a school like Sidwell the parents should be informed enough to know there will be certain classes where the 8-ball rolls for against the general population of great candidates at certain Ivies on certain years, and you can predict that well in advance.

The college counselors aren't always honest arbiters. What are they supposed to say? Yes, you just spent a quarter mil on a private secondary education but you really should know now that the 2-3 spots at Brown in your son's class are a closed loop because of that soccer player and those two kids with the hooks? The reality is the queue is not a true one, and there are some ways the application folders jump from high piles to the skinny piles and we can all guess how that happens, and we all know how that applies or does not to our family situation. Our son didn't get into 6 Ivies, but is very happy at the one he did pull through at after being wait listed then finally admitted. It works out well for the very qualified kids at a great place. I think that is what matters most, and, of course, in the world today most of the desired professions require a graduate degree and the next rodeo always awaits.



You are spot on and I know quite a bit of inside information.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2015 15:21     Subject: Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yale got a lot of criticism last year for admitting 1% of its student body from a single school.


From whom? Alumni? Donors? Who would even know how many admissions were sent to Sidwell, other than people in the Sidwell community? Do you think anyone at Sidwell complained?



From DCUM, the ultimate advisor on such issues.
Anonymous
Post 10/28/2015 15:18     Subject: Where does a 3.5 Sidwell kid end up going to college?
Anonymous wrote:Yale got a lot of criticism last year for admitting 1% of its student body from a single school.


From whom? Alumni? Donors? Who would even know how many admissions were sent to Sidwell, other than people in the Sidwell community? Do you think anyone at Sidwell complained?