Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:LOL no it doesn't work that way

It most certainly does. God knows his people are sinners and he forgives them as long as they are sorry and continue to believe in Jesus as their savior. If they are sorry, or stop committing so many sins but no longer believe in Jesus, then he does not forgive them. Those people don't care, because they no longer believe in salvation, but God is still keeping track of them and will punish them after they die for their lack of belief, no matter how good they were compared to faithful Christians.

My God is not that petty.

You decided that christian beliefs are petty and invented your own god

No, I decided your version of Christianity is petty and wrong.

It's not anyone's "version" these are standard Christian beliefs that anyone knows. even denominations that disagree on some things, agree about this. DOn't believe them if you don't want to. God didn't make us robots. We all have free will and you've used yours to think that basic christianity is petty.

What you think of a "basic Christianity" is a largely American novelty. Read up on Catholic theology to discover what the vast majority of the World's Christians believe. Whether you agree or not, you have to admit it is a lot more logically coherent than this "sola fidei" stuff.

Catholics definitely believe in heaven and hell, it's right there in the Apostles Creed: "...he descended into hell. On the third day he rose again;he ascended into heaven,...."

Hello Lapsed Catholic PP, just in case you go to church again, study up first because you are reciting the wrong creed. Catholics recite the Nicene Creed, and the words have changed a bit due to updated translations (keeping up with modern linguistic scholarship), the most recent was officially adopted in 2011 (IIRC): http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/ The word Hell is not in the Nicene Creed. Don't worry if you get the words wrong through habit -- many people still do (funerals and weddings are kind of funny in this respect -- you can tell who doesn't go to church anymore).

Here is an interesting NYT article on Catholicism and hell: http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/18/arts/hell-getting-makeover-catholics-jesuits-call-it-painful-state-but-not-sulfurous.html?pagewanted=all . Thanks to art and Dante and Sunday school, hell has been long misunderstood by the Catholic layman. In truth, a lot of Catholics have a pretty poor understanding of Catholicism (I learn more every time I research a question). To the Church, God (the Trinity) is love (and not in the "I love you, Pookie Bear" sense). Hell is a human state of mind; it is "estrangement from God" which means estrangement from love by human choice.

So, OP, my understanding is that to a Catholic, God cannot send you to hell; God is love. Hell is alienation from God, which is alienation from love by your own choice. Heaven is eternal union with God, which is eternal love. Sin is making a choice against love (a worthy topic of discussion unto itself, as in many situations jurisprudence and morality can be difficult to work through -- which I think would be a good definition of "purgatory" -- unable to see clear to the path of love). If you are "in hell" over your choice, you are creating your own hell through your fear that you are unworthy of love (aka God) because of your choice and actions. Maybe your faith can bring you out of the hell you have put yourself in. If you are Catholic, the Sacrament of Reconciliation is there to help you find your way back to love, to return to a state of love and grace (it is not magic, it is soul searching work). Either way, you need to find love within yourself again (and I'm sorry you are not getting much of it here -- DCUM is literally hell on Earth sometimes).

Anonymous wrote:

If you believe in heaven/hell, surely you believe an aborted baby went to heaven. It's not like you condemned them to a horrible life.

Catholics believe aborted fetuses and infants who die before being baptized (so with original sin still on their soul) go to limbo.

Try educating yourself.

Anonymous wrote:This is like watching a bunch of kids discussing how to get on Santa's good side so that they'll get presents this Christmas.

At least Santa lets you know at Christmas if your efforts worked. With Catholicism, you have to wait until you're dead.

This is like watching a bunch of kids discussing how to get on Santa's good side so that they'll get presents this Christmas.

Not if you sincerely ask for forgiveness.

Anonymous wrote:

If you believe in heaven/hell, surely you believe an aborted baby went to heaven. It's not like you condemned them to a horrible life.

Catholics believe aborted fetuses and infants who die before being baptized (so with original sin still on their soul) go to limbo.

Not any more -- Limbo has been abolished. I don't know where all the souls already in limbo went to

If you believe in heaven/hell, surely you believe an aborted baby went to heaven. It's not like you condemned them to a horrible life.

Catholics believe aborted fetuses and infants who die before being baptized (so with original sin still on their soul) go to limbo.

Anonymous wrote:No, there is no hell.

Have you been to Alabama?

Anonymous wrote:This is so whacked out to me.

If you believe in heaven/hell, surely you believe an aborted baby went to heaven. It's not like you condemned them to a horrible life.

Christianity (and most other re\ligions) make no logical sense.

Couldn't you make the same claim about her killing her newborn? It makes perfect sense for someone who believes abortion is murder to worry about going to hell for it. Not that I agree.

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Anonymous wrote:The Pope just weighed in on this very topic:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/01/europe/pope-francis-abortion/

more on this wonderful news: http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-announces-wide-indulgences-mercy-year-grants-lefebvrites-faculties

“I have decided, notwithstanding anything to the contrary, to concede to all priests for the Jubilee Year the discretion to absolve of the sin of abortion those who have procured it and who, with contrite heart, seek forgiveness for it," writes Francis.

"May priests fulfill this great task by expressing words of genuine welcome combined with a reflection that explains the gravity of the sin committed, besides indicating a path of authentic conversion by which to obtain the true and generous forgiveness of the Father who renews all with his presence," he asks.

That's a lot of bitchy in one press release.

This is a whole lot of crazy. I had an abortion in 1997 and went to confession at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago and was absolved. The priest didn't tell me that I would need to bump it up to the next level of clergy to be officially forgiven and I certainly didn't know that.

I guess I've been living in mortal sin since 1997

ALSO (I'm the PP) - why is it only abortion that requires someone higher-up than a mere priest for absolution? Is that the absolute worse sin, according to the Vatican? Did the priests who raped children need to obtain absolution from a bishop?

Yeah -- I never heard of this rule before now. I try to imagine a woman confessing her abortion to a parish priest and him telling here can't absolve her sin -- that she must appeal to the bishop. Seems unlikely.

"Sorry, lady, that one's above my pay grade"

I think it depends on your view on God and your faith to begin with. If you're a nonbeliever and you've had an abortion do you really care if someone says you might go to hell? If you're a believer and have had an abortion I would think you're already living the rest of your life with a grave weight. So who knows.

No. You spared a life, if you think about it. The last thing the world needs is another unwanted child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Pope just weighed in on this very topic:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/01/europe/pope-francis-abortion/

more on this wonderful news: http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-announces-wide-indulgences-mercy-year-grants-lefebvrites-faculties

“I have decided, notwithstanding anything to the contrary, to concede to all priests for the Jubilee Year the discretion to absolve of the sin of abortion those who have procured it and who, with contrite heart, seek forgiveness for it," writes Francis.

"May priests fulfill this great task by expressing words of genuine welcome combined with a reflection that explains the gravity of the sin committed, besides indicating a path of authentic conversion by which to obtain the true and generous forgiveness of the Father who renews all with his presence," he asks.

That's a lot of bitchy in one press release.

This is a whole lot of crazy. I had an abortion in 1997 and went to confession at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago and was absolved. The priest didn't tell me that I would need to bump it up to the next level of clergy to be officially forgiven and I certainly didn't know that.

I guess I've been living in mortal sin since 1997

ALSO (I'm the PP) - why is it only abortion that requires someone higher-up than a mere priest for absolution? Is that the absolute worse sin, according to the Vatican? Did the priests who raped children need to obtain absolution from a bishop?

Yeah -- I never heard of this rule before now. I try to imagine a woman confessing her abortion to a parish priest and him telling here can't absolve her sin -- that she must appeal to the bishop. Seems unlikely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Pope just weighed in on this very topic:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/01/europe/pope-francis-abortion/

more on this wonderful news: http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-announces-wide-indulgences-mercy-year-grants-lefebvrites-faculties

“I have decided, notwithstanding anything to the contrary, to concede to all priests for the Jubilee Year the discretion to absolve of the sin of abortion those who have procured it and who, with contrite heart, seek forgiveness for it," writes Francis.

"May priests fulfill this great task by expressing words of genuine welcome combined with a reflection that explains the gravity of the sin committed, besides indicating a path of authentic conversion by which to obtain the true and generous forgiveness of the Father who renews all with his presence," he asks.

That's a lot of bitchy in one press release.

This is a whole lot of crazy. I had an abortion in 1997 and went to confession at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago and was absolved. The priest didn't tell me that I would need to bump it up to the next level of clergy to be officially forgiven and I certainly didn't know that.

I guess I've been living in mortal sin since 1997

ALSO (I'm the PP) - why is it only abortion that requires someone higher-up than a mere priest for absolution? Is that the absolute worse sin, according to the Vatican? Did the priests who raped children need to obtain absolution from a bishop?