Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 17:23     Subject: Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
I had a friend who was on a flight recently that was boarded by police upon landing. A man was arrested and taken off the plane because an unaccompanied minor child told the flight attendant that the man had been groping her.

Not saying this is a common occurrence, but if you think that there are going to be eyes on your child for the duration of the trip, I think you are fooling yourself.

A 5 year old simply does not have the maturity to handle an unexpected situation. (I don't think a child that age would have the maturity to do this, period, but clearly the OP disagrees.)
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 17:17     Subject: Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
So, OP says the child is not alone b/c of the chaperone -- so I'll accept that the chaperone is like a baby sitter. But, tell me, OP, do you think there would be any emotional toll for your child? Is he/she an out-going child, always happy, easy to roll with changes and strangers?

There is no way my kids (at 5) would even ever get on a plane with a stranger! They would have been hugging my legs and crying, begging to stay with me. The unknown can be really scary. I think we adults have life experience and say "nothing will happen" -- but we forget what the mental/emotional state of a 5 yr. old is really like.

I had stress when my child was at camp for the first time and she was perfectly fine -- but I just didn't know and I wasn't in reach. I, myself, could never send a 5 yr. old into the wide open yonder... it would be very stressful for me even if it wasn't for him/her!
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 17:16     Subject: Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No way.

My five year old can get scared of a lot of things on the way. Accidents can happen. And no one to comfort her for 10 hours on an international flight. No way.

I'm not even going to think about connections. What if there is a bad turbulence? Or she gets sick?

I'm not sure she would know how to operate the toilet door on a plane. Or open all the packaging of a food tray.


OP here: Here is what would happen in some of the situations you mentioned.

In flight:
Your child receives our Kids Solo service. Our staff provides continuous supervision and ensures his or her comfort and safety.
On intercontinental flights, your child enjoys games, films, cartoons, radio programs for children, and receives fun gifts to play with.
We provide a meal adapted to your child's tastes and needs on all flights over 2.5 hours. Starting at age 9, your child receives a regular meal, but can still choose the children's menu if desired. In this case, please remember to request the children's menu when booking the ticket, or at least 24 hours prior to the flight's departure.

Please educate your child, particularly if your child is an adolescent, that changing seats is not permitted during the flight. Please remind him or her to remain seated upon arrival, until accompanied by an Air France guardian.

Please note: if your child is traveling on the same flight as you but in a different cabin, he or she must remain under his or her Air France guardian's supervision until arrival.

Connections:
With the Kids Solo service, our staff provides continuous supervision to your child during connecting flights. This also applies if you are making the same trip but in a different cabin.
For connecting flights of more than 2 hours*, your child is welcomed in the Air France connecting area reserved for children traveling alone at Paris-Orly and Paris-Charles de Gaulle airports.

These lounges are specially equipped to offer activities for everyone: rest, reading, cartoons, board games and foosball (table soccer). Lounges also offer Sony PlayStation 3 and/or PlayStation Vita video game consoles.

In case of flight connections and cancellations: Your child receives priority care and attention from Air France staff in the event of a flight delay or cancellation. An Air France staff member remains present with your child at all times, even if lodging is necessary.
We immediately inform the individuals listed on the UM handling form of any measures taken for your child at any point in the trip.


So again, you would be okay with your 5 year old staying overnight in a hotel room with a complete stranger?


OP here: If that is what ends us happening, then I would have to be ok with it, because I would have weighed the risk of that possibility and still opted to have him get on the plane.


Nice dodge, OP. Are you ok with that risk? It's a yes or no question. If the answer is no, then you don't send him alone on the flight. Simple. If the answer is yes, you would be ok with it, then I'm not really sure why you're asking a public message board if you should do this, because you're clearly not going to find many parents who agree with you, American or not.

I mean, honestly, OP. Maybe this is the norm in other countries (I find this to be a dubious assertion), but you asked on a DC message board that is going to be populated by... wait for it... AMERICANS, so we're going to give you our perspective based on that. IF you want to do something different, no one here can stop you, but don't get pissy because we're not going to validate your choices.

And yes, there are 5 year olds who are "independent" enough in other parts of the world to work in sweat shops, or take care of their younger siblings all day because their parents are working or walking miles to get water... call me a helicopter parent, but I don't see this as a good thing. So let's stop with the "oh you overprotective Americans!" nonsense and admit that this is a batshit crazy idea no matter how you look at it.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 17:09     Subject: Re:Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Here's a question, OP: Did you ever see "Home Alone"?
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 15:32     Subject: Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
OP, I am not American and I believe in giving children more independence than they nowadays get in the US, but I would NEVER put a 5yr old on a 16 hr plane ride with a connection by himself. I think there is no excuse to do so unless it's a true emergency (it's that or him going into foster care, or not getting a necessary medical treatment or whatever). If the 16-hour flight was direct, maybe (even then, 5 is too young for a truly long flight IMO). Or if the child was older, at least 10.

There is no excuse to jump down PPs' throats btw - you asked for an opinion and now are mad that everyone is not validating your choices.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 12:31     Subject: Re:Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Op. I doubt "millions" of people do this with 5 year olds. I travel internationally frequently and the UMs I've seen are in the 12 to 16 range, not preschoolers.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 12:25     Subject: Re:Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Anonymous wrote:

My son is my number one priority, and if I put him on a plane unaccompanied, it will be because it is the right thing for both he and I.


Well. You asked what others think. I've travelled a lot internationally. It is hard enough when the parent is with the child. You, yourself, said that you had to be put into an ambulance once. It is one thing to give your child a feeling of independence. It is another to do this. This is not independence. This is risky.

However, you say you will do what is best for you and your child. Sounds to me like you want to do what is best for you.

For me there are two fascinating themes in this thread:

- are airlines really doing everything what they are promising on their websites for their 5 year old unaccompanied minors and what is their business rationale for that. In this day of airlines cutting everything and everywhere their discriptions of the services provided read like something straight out of 1962 (coincidentally, Emirates site mentioned "taking Polaroid of your child on board" - was it actually written in 2015? )

- the thinking of OP on the issue. I just absolutely cannot imagine her as a real human being - what is her age? Her background? Her mental state? Why is she single coming obviously from rather traditional culture? What was wrong with her on that transatlantic flight? Questions, questions..

One thing is saying "I'm a single mom, the only possible option for me is to send my kid unaccompanied to my parents next summer, I wish I could fly with him, but time/money issues do not allow, I know it is not ideal but is it still an option" but her "he is so independent (he is still 4, btw), I don't worry, if he has a bad experience he will survive, the whole "assigned flight attendant" bs, I enjoy "international travel" just boggles my mind.

Fascinating thread - thank you, OP.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 12:01     Subject: Re:Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?

My son is my number one priority, and if I put him on a plane unaccompanied, it will be because it is the right thing for both he and I.


Well. You asked what others think. I've travelled a lot internationally. It is hard enough when the parent is with the child. You, yourself, said that you had to be put into an ambulance once. It is one thing to give your child a feeling of independence. It is another to do this. This is not independence. This is risky.

However, you say you will do what is best for you and your child. Sounds to me like you want to do what is best for you.




Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 10:16     Subject: Re:Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
I'm dying to find out what culture does OP come from - but she is not sharing...

On the other hand I'm just curious why do international carriers even offer this for 5 year olds? Makes absolutely no business sense to me - 100 bucks for all this chaperoning to and from, lounge access, etc.
Wish we had some flight attendants or airline people on here to share some real life perspective...
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 09:47     Subject: Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No way.

My five year old can get scared of a lot of things on the way. Accidents can happen. And no one to comfort her for 10 hours on an international flight. No way.

I'm not even going to think about connections. What if there is a bad turbulence? Or she gets sick?

I'm not sure she would know how to operate the toilet door on a plane. Or open all the packaging of a food tray.


OP here: Here is what would happen in some of the situations you mentioned.

In flight:
Your child receives our Kids Solo service. Our staff provides continuous supervision and ensures his or her comfort and safety.
On intercontinental flights, your child enjoys games, films, cartoons, radio programs for children, and receives fun gifts to play with.
We provide a meal adapted to your child's tastes and needs on all flights over 2.5 hours. Starting at age 9, your child receives a regular meal, but can still choose the children's menu if desired. In this case, please remember to request the children's menu when booking the ticket, or at least 24 hours prior to the flight's departure.

Please educate your child, particularly if your child is an adolescent, that changing seats is not permitted during the flight. Please remind him or her to remain seated upon arrival, until accompanied by an Air France guardian.

Please note: if your child is traveling on the same flight as you but in a different cabin, he or she must remain under his or her Air France guardian's supervision until arrival.

Connections:
With the Kids Solo service, our staff provides continuous supervision to your child during connecting flights. This also applies if you are making the same trip but in a different cabin.
For connecting flights of more than 2 hours*, your child is welcomed in the Air France connecting area reserved for children traveling alone at Paris-Orly and Paris-Charles de Gaulle airports.

These lounges are specially equipped to offer activities for everyone: rest, reading, cartoons, board games and foosball (table soccer). Lounges also offer Sony PlayStation 3 and/or PlayStation Vita video game consoles.

In case of flight connections and cancellations: Your child receives priority care and attention from Air France staff in the event of a flight delay or cancellation. An Air France staff member remains present with your child at all times, even if lodging is necessary.
We immediately inform the individuals listed on the UM handling form of any measures taken for your child at any point in the trip.


So again, you would be okay with your 5 year old staying overnight in a hotel room with a complete stranger?


OP here: If that is what ends us happening, then I would have to be ok with it, because I would have weighed the risk of that possibility and still opted to have him get on the plane.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 09:44     Subject: Re:Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Anonymous wrote:I call troll. Anyone willing to send their five year old on a sixteen hour trip with a layover, would not be concerned about what others think. She would be so arrogant that it is just fine, that she would never ask.


OP here: I am not a troll and neither am I ignorant. What I am asking is legal and millions of people do it...which is why airlines offer it as a service. I am not wealthy by any means so me sending my son to spend time with family in a way that would allow me to save money is an option I am willing to consider. Most of the people on here, including you, disagree with me because it is anti-American and not typical of parents to give their children a lot of independence. I get that...and I am not judging you. But you've at least got to take your eyes off yourself for a second and consider that someone else, a different kind of parent with a different kind of upbringing, may be ok with this, and therefore wants to obtain feedback and perspective from other parents without being attacked.

My son is my number one priority, and if I put him on a plane unaccompanied, it will be because it is the right thing for both he and I.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 09:41     Subject: Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People. No airline will let a 5 year old UM connect. Just stop.


wrong:

Delta https://pro.delta.com/content/deltapro/en_US/products-and-services/special-services/unaccompanied-minor--umnr--service.html

Air France: http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common/guidevoyageur/assistance/enfant_seul_um.htm


OP here: Airlines do and have. It's allowed.


Fine. No US airline. Because the Delta link says it's not allowed.

5-7 Enrolled in UMNR Program
Routings Not Permitted
Connecting itineraries


Did you do your research and look up the policies of each US airline? I'm the one who provided those links, and they happened to be the last 2 airlines I used. Further, if you read the link, it appears that Delta connections ARE allowed:
Non-stop flights operated by DL, DL Connection (except American Eagle), AF or KL

I believe what they don't allow is a connection with another airline.


They don't allow connections at all for 5-7 year old. They allow through flights without a change in aircraft, i.e., the plane stops in a city, most people get off, and then continues on. That's not a technical connection.

-Delta DM and Million Miler
Sometimes at that point where most people are getting off, they decide there is something wrong with the plane and now everyone has to get off and switch, even though that was not planned. Or, they make you get off while they clean the plane.
Anonymous
Post 07/17/2015 09:35     Subject: Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For all of those saying "yes" -- I wonder: would you leave your 5 yr. old at home by him/herself for the same amount of time?


Look, I'm in the "no" camp, but I think this analogy is silly.

A kid alone could get hurt and there would be no one there to help.

A kid on a plane is not alone.


OK,... would you leave your 5 yr. old in a mall by him/herself??? there would be other people around to help!


OP here: You really are missing the point. They would be a chaperon (flight attendant) assigned to your child at all time. That would not happen at the mall since there is NO ONE to assign your child to who is responsible for him/her for the duration of the time.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2015 21:22     Subject: Re:Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Oh hell no.
Anonymous
Post 07/16/2015 21:21     Subject: Would you let you 5 year old fly unaccompanied overseas?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People. No airline will let a 5 year old UM connect. Just stop.


wrong:

Delta https://pro.delta.com/content/deltapro/en_US/products-and-services/special-services/unaccompanied-minor--umnr--service.html

Air France: http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common/guidevoyageur/assistance/enfant_seul_um.htm


OP here: Airlines do and have. It's allowed.


Fine. No US airline. Because the Delta link says it's not allowed.

5-7 Enrolled in UMNR Program
Routings Not Permitted
Connecting itineraries


Did you do your research and look up the policies of each US airline? I'm the one who provided those links, and they happened to be the last 2 airlines I used. Further, if you read the link, it appears that Delta connections ARE allowed:
Non-stop flights operated by DL, DL Connection (except American Eagle), AF or KL

I believe what they don't allow is a connection with another airline.


They don't allow connections at all for 5-7 year old. They allow through flights without a change in aircraft, i.e., the plane stops in a city, most people get off, and then continues on. That's not a technical connection.

-Delta DM and Million Miler