Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education. But I think we're slipping away from that. I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads. Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged. But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations. Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.

I am a Gen X-er, just cracked into the 40's, I am not *that* much older. When I graduated with a tech degree in the late 90s, we were hit with the tech bubble burst, followed by a stressful recession. The generation before me can talk about how unemployment cracked over 10% in the early 80's. My point is every generation can talk about some economic issue. What's been annoying is that the millenials are thus far the only generation to blame their lack of success on external factors, along with a sense of entitlement. This is not just me talking here, but a general trend of your generation.

Yes, tuition costs are higher now in absolute terms but it's the rate of increase that is most indicative of "who had it worst". Take a look:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-rates-growth-published-charges-decade

As you can see, the annual tuition increases were worse for my generation and even Gen-Y than yours. You don't hear us complaining about it. Okay, I did actually complain about it - I remember going to the MD general assembly and protesting tuition increases together with a bunch of other students. But the point is we didn't let that be an excuse for excessive student loan debt or not being able to get a good education. One significant difference, however, is that student loans and other forms of financial aid are far more plentiful now than it was when I went to college. It was rare for college kids to rack up huge debts because it was tougher to get loans. Also, fewer of your contemporaries are working their way through school, as shown here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/how-many-students-can-actually-work-their-way-through-school/258836/

I recruit/hire people for my company and we have plenty of junior level positions that we simply are unable to fill. When my wife and I started working in our early 20s, we understood that our strength was not experience, but youth and energy. We were willing to work hard, travel, be willing to put in some strange hours because the older guys with family weren't. Instead of eager and energetic go-getters, we get a bunch of laid back slackers with no ambition and who think their degree should automatically guarantee them a $60k salary.

1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?

You are making a lot of (incorrect) assumptions here.

You do understand that there are several people on this thread. The Gen X pp above, is not the same person as the PP who came to the US with $2k (me).

If you think that you get free degrees and don't pay any tuition overseas then you are willfully ignorant. You realize, you just made a wide sweeping statement about every other country in the world. And where was their any mention of parents or in laws who may or may not need support?

As for, how I bought a house -- the same way that you did, no doubt. I arrived, I found a job and made sure that my expenses were less than my earnings and I saved. More specifically, I lived in a shared house for 5 years where the rent was split between me and the six other young people I lived with. I found a temp job paying $15 an hour when I first arrived, and a professional job at a non profit soon after. I continued to live frugally. My downpayment was about $15k, a large chunk of which came from the only Christmas bonus I have ever received. I did 5 percent down and had a second loan (HELOC) to avoid PMI. House cost somewhat less than $300k, I was rounding up. Closing costs were rolled into the loan. When I bought the house I was earning about $70k. It's not possible to buy a house as soon as your arrive in the country even if I'd had tens of thousands of dollars. You need a US work history and a credit history, neither of which I had.

Sigh, so I like how you constructed a strawman argument about the tuition. I'm assuming your tuition was free, paid for by a generous government or parents, and that you haven't been sending money home to your family, because you skimmed right over that.

And yes, many immigrants come from Europe, Asia (China & India), without any student debt. Compared to the US? Don't be ridiculous.

I see you did the low-money down route, so basically you just leveraged yourself to the hilt and could have easily ended up underwater. You gambled and won the housing lottery, just accept your good fortune.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a common trait of unsuccessful people to ascribe the success of others to luck.

This TED talk seems particularly relevant to this discussion. Attributing others success to luck is a trait of the unsuccessful? Where did you make that up from? I attribute a majority of my own success to the numerous ways I've been lucky in life.

http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_does_money_make_you_mean/transcript?language=en

Just read this transcript and wow, I find this to be a fascinating topic. I tend to agree more with the findings that those who are given advantages in life tend to downplay the effect this has had on their success. And I say this as someone whose parents paid for college and a good chunk of law school. Of course I was hardworking, made good grades, stayed out of trouble, managed to get a sizable merit-based scholarship to a top tier law school, etc., but I would never try to attribute everything I have achieved solely to my own grit and determination.

There is something to be said for having an intact family that pushes the importance of education and can help pay for schooling. I have also been blessed with good health and parents who can fund their own retirement. I think life is a mix of opportunity and hard work.

In some way though, I feel I have been disadvantaged. When I began applying to law school in 2005, it was a great investment still. By the time
I graduated in 2009, the legal market had collapsed. This has had at least some impact on my earning potential so far. nd because I was in school through my mid-20s, I didn't have the opportunity to buy until closer to my late 20s. I'm now pregnant with my first at 30 and don't want to gamble with a bad school district in a high crime area like OP did (I don't think taking chances on safety and schools classifies one as upper middle class). And I married someone with student loans, which is something I couldn't exactly plan for years ago.

My point is that OP took some risks that paid off, has been blessed with no loans, etc. So far things have been working out in her favor, but I think one of the best sayings to remember is "But by the Grace of God there go I." All it takes is one cancer diagnosis, one job loss, a few expensive rounds of IVF, a flooded basement not covered by insurance, or having been born into poverty that could change it all.

You are confusing me (the PP who in bought in downtown DC in 2004 in a bad school district) with OP who lives in the burbs and homeschools. I am an immigrant who moved to the US with nothing more than a suitcase of belongings and $2k in cash (no job, only the name of a family friend to stay with for a few days). I do have a BA from an overseas university and I graduated during a recession, like you. I do not have parents or family nearby, beyond the family I have created here. To be honest, any "advantages" I've had have been minimal.

Somehow, in the midst of this thread, I am now being treated like someone who "won the lottery" when the reality is that my income is considerably lower than yours, and there is little scope for it to increase significantly. However, I consider myself very lucky and very well off to have an HHI of almost $100k. This is wealthy in my book. We have everything we need. Do you have any idea what most people live off in this city? Try taking a look outside of your enclave of rich white folks at the real people in this city. If I earned $400k, I certainly wouldn't be on this thread complaining that it was hard to make ends meet because I made poor choices that left me with little wiggle room in my budget or that I couldn't buy the perfect house in the perfect neighborhood, or that other people had more money than me and it wasn't fair.

If I hadn't bought the house I did in 2004, I would have found another house in another neighborhood that had potential and I'd have lived through making it livable and invested in the community and made it my home -- even if I'd been doing that 10 years later in 2014. These houses exist if you can just drop your own prejudices and make it work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

There are a multitude of factors that would contribute to a declining work-during-college trend. Certainly there are *FAR* more employment opportunities off campus than there are on campus. A lot of on-campus jobs arise out of a need for low cost labor in performing some function, such as at the library or manning a computer lab. These needs don't go away through a lack of subsidy. In fact, the power of the Internet greatly expands the scope of work available that was never enjoyed by generations in the past. We've hired college students for off-hour email support from the other side of the continent. The opportunities may not have stayed the same, but they are there if you look for them.

Anonymous wrote:
2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

Well, prices always increase, so looking at absolute dollars is useless as a basis for comparison across generations. The rate of increase is far more indicative of the relative tuition pressure that each generation had to endure. With regards to financial aid - they are always focused on the lower quintile of the population that have a financial need for assistance. Declining real aid for this lower quintile cannot be used as an excuse for the broad base of the millennial population for why their education costs are some how so much worse than those shouldered by generations past.

Anonymous wrote:
And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?

Not me, but I can address a similar issue. My family came to the US literally with no money. I believe by the then currency exchange, we had the equivalent of about $500. My parents had to support aging parents and also siblings back in the old country - its expected of them since they were both the eldest in their respective families. I went to a state school in the US, we did not qualify for any financial aid because we didn't have our green cards. I worked all throughout college: sold fitness equipment at a sporting goods store, bussed tables at local restaurants, tutored high school kids, delivered pizzas, etc. My parents were methodical hard workers and savers. They bought their first house of $150k in cash after saving from literally nothing for 6 years, all the while raising us two kids and putting us through college. At first only my dad worked, and had a salary in the $25k range. Then my mom started doing odd jobs and I think towards the end of the six years, they probably had a combined income of about $60k. They didn't believe in owing money to people. They could not understand how anyone could take out a loan for 30 years, paying interest.

My parents raised us while living in apartments. They bought their house just as we were leaving for college. Owning a house is an American dream, but I don't see how anyone should feel entitled to it. I don't see how anyone in their 20's should feel like they deserve to own a home, even a relatively affordable $300k one. My wife and I started our lives together in a 1 bedroom studio in our late 20s. Neither of us owned a home at that point and had no intention to do so until we had our first child. We had a combined income of $100k at that point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education. But I think we're slipping away from that. I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads. Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged. But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations. Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.

I am a Gen X-er, just cracked into the 40's, I am not *that* much older. When I graduated with a tech degree in the late 90s, we were hit with the tech bubble burst, followed by a stressful recession. The generation before me can talk about how unemployment cracked over 10% in the early 80's. My point is every generation can talk about some economic issue. What's been annoying is that the millenials are thus far the only generation to blame their lack of success on external factors, along with a sense of entitlement. This is not just me talking here, but a general trend of your generation.

Yes, tuition costs are higher now in absolute terms but it's the rate of increase that is most indicative of "who had it worst". Take a look:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-rates-growth-published-charges-decade

As you can see, the annual tuition increases were worse for my generation and even Gen-Y than yours. You don't hear us complaining about it. Okay, I did actually complain about it - I remember going to the MD general assembly and protesting tuition increases together with a bunch of other students. But the point is we didn't let that be an excuse for excessive student loan debt or not being able to get a good education. One significant difference, however, is that student loans and other forms of financial aid are far more plentiful now than it was when I went to college. It was rare for college kids to rack up huge debts because it was tougher to get loans. Also, fewer of your contemporaries are working their way through school, as shown here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/how-many-students-can-actually-work-their-way-through-school/258836/

I recruit/hire people for my company and we have plenty of junior level positions that we simply are unable to fill. When my wife and I started working in our early 20s, we understood that our strength was not experience, but youth and energy. We were willing to work hard, travel, be willing to put in some strange hours because the older guys with family weren't. Instead of eager and energetic go-getters, we get a bunch of laid back slackers with no ambition and who think their degree should automatically guarantee them a $60k salary.

1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?

You are making a lot of (incorrect) assumptions here.

You do understand that there are several people on this thread. The Gen X pp above, is not the same person as the PP who came to the US with $2k (me).

If you think that you get free degrees and don't pay any tuition overseas then you are willfully ignorant. You realize, you just made a wide sweeping statement about every other country in the world. And where was their any mention of parents or in laws who may or may not need support?

As for, how I bought a house -- the same way that you did, no doubt. I arrived, I found a job and made sure that my expenses were less than my earnings and I saved. More specifically, I lived in a shared house for 5 years where the rent was split between me and the six other young people I lived with. I found a temp job paying $15 an hour when I first arrived, and a professional job at a non profit soon after. I continued to live frugally. My downpayment was about $15k, a large chunk of which came from the only Christmas bonus I have ever received. I did 5 percent down and had a second loan (HELOC) to avoid PMI. House cost somewhat less than $300k, I was rounding up. Closing costs were rolled into the loan. When I bought the house I was earning about $70k. It's not possible to buy a house as soon as your arrive in the country even if I'd had tens of thousands of dollars. You need a US work history and a credit history, neither of which I had.

Sigh, so I like how you constructed a strawman argument about the tuition. I'm assuming your tuition was free, paid for by a generous government or parents, and that you haven't been sending money home to your family, because you skimmed right over that.

And yes, many immigrants come from Europe, Asia (China & India), without any student debt. Compared to the US? Don't be ridiculous.

I see you did the low-money down route, so basically you just leveraged yourself to the hilt and could have easily ended up underwater. You gambled and won the housing lottery, just accept your good fortune.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education. But I think we're slipping away from that. I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads. Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged. But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations. Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.

I am a Gen X-er, just cracked into the 40's, I am not *that* much older. When I graduated with a tech degree in the late 90s, we were hit with the tech bubble burst, followed by a stressful recession. The generation before me can talk about how unemployment cracked over 10% in the early 80's. My point is every generation can talk about some economic issue. What's been annoying is that the millenials are thus far the only generation to blame their lack of success on external factors, along with a sense of entitlement. This is not just me talking here, but a general trend of your generation.

Yes, tuition costs are higher now in absolute terms but it's the rate of increase that is most indicative of "who had it worst". Take a look:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-rates-growth-published-charges-decade

As you can see, the annual tuition increases were worse for my generation and even Gen-Y than yours. You don't hear us complaining about it. Okay, I did actually complain about it - I remember going to the MD general assembly and protesting tuition increases together with a bunch of other students. But the point is we didn't let that be an excuse for excessive student loan debt or not being able to get a good education. One significant difference, however, is that student loans and other forms of financial aid are far more plentiful now than it was when I went to college. It was rare for college kids to rack up huge debts because it was tougher to get loans. Also, fewer of your contemporaries are working their way through school, as shown here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/how-many-students-can-actually-work-their-way-through-school/258836/

I recruit/hire people for my company and we have plenty of junior level positions that we simply are unable to fill. When my wife and I started working in our early 20s, we understood that our strength was not experience, but youth and energy. We were willing to work hard, travel, be willing to put in some strange hours because the older guys with family weren't. Instead of eager and energetic go-getters, we get a bunch of laid back slackers with no ambition and who think their degree should automatically guarantee them a $60k salary.

1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?

You are making a lot of (incorrect) assumptions here.

You do understand that there are several people on this thread. The Gen X pp above, is not the same person as the PP who came to the US with $2k (me).

If you think that you get free degrees and don't pay any tuition overseas then you are willfully ignorant. You realize, you just made a wide sweeping statement about every other country in the world. And where was their any mention of parents or in laws who may or may not need support?

As for, how I bought a house -- the same way that you did, no doubt. I arrived, I found a job and made sure that my expenses were less than my earnings and I saved. More specifically, I lived in a shared house for 5 years where the rent was split between me and the six other young people I lived with. I found a temp job paying $15 an hour when I first arrived, and a professional job at a non profit soon after. I continued to live frugally. My downpayment was about $15k, a large chunk of which came from the only Christmas bonus I have ever received. I did 5 percent down and had a second loan (HELOC) to avoid PMI. House cost somewhat less than $300k, I was rounding up. Closing costs were rolled into the loan. When I bought the house I was earning about $70k. It's not possible to buy a house as soon as your arrive in the country even if I'd had tens of thousands of dollars. You need a US work history and a credit history, neither of which I had.

Sigh, so I like how you constructed a strawman argument about the tuition. I'm assuming your tuition was free, paid for by a generous government or parents, and that you haven't been sending money home to your family, because you skimmed right over that.

And yes, many immigrants come from Europe, Asia (China & India), without any student debt. Compared to the US? Don't be ridiculous.

I see you did the low-money down route, so basically you just leveraged yourself to the hilt and could have easily ended up underwater. You gambled and won the housing lottery, just accept your good fortune.

Anonymous wrote:
1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

Anonymous wrote:
2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

Anonymous wrote:
And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education. But I think we're slipping away from that. I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads. Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged. But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations. Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.

I am a Gen X-er, just cracked into the 40's, I am not *that* much older. When I graduated with a tech degree in the late 90s, we were hit with the tech bubble burst, followed by a stressful recession. The generation before me can talk about how unemployment cracked over 10% in the early 80's. My point is every generation can talk about some economic issue. What's been annoying is that the millenials are thus far the only generation to blame their lack of success on external factors, along with a sense of entitlement. This is not just me talking here, but a general trend of your generation.

Yes, tuition costs are higher now in absolute terms but it's the rate of increase that is most indicative of "who had it worst". Take a look:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-rates-growth-published-charges-decade

As you can see, the annual tuition increases were worse for my generation and even Gen-Y than yours. You don't hear us complaining about it. Okay, I did actually complain about it - I remember going to the MD general assembly and protesting tuition increases together with a bunch of other students. But the point is we didn't let that be an excuse for excessive student loan debt or not being able to get a good education. One significant difference, however, is that student loans and other forms of financial aid are far more plentiful now than it was when I went to college. It was rare for college kids to rack up huge debts because it was tougher to get loans. Also, fewer of your contemporaries are working their way through school, as shown here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/how-many-students-can-actually-work-their-way-through-school/258836/

I recruit/hire people for my company and we have plenty of junior level positions that we simply are unable to fill. When my wife and I started working in our early 20s, we understood that our strength was not experience, but youth and energy. We were willing to work hard, travel, be willing to put in some strange hours because the older guys with family weren't. Instead of eager and energetic go-getters, we get a bunch of laid back slackers with no ambition and who think their degree should automatically guarantee them a $60k salary.

1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?

You are making a lot of (incorrect) assumptions here.

You do understand that there are several people on this thread. The Gen X pp above, is not the same person as the PP who came to the US with $2k (me).

If you think that you get free degrees and don't pay any tuition overseas then you are willfully ignorant. You realize, you just made a wide sweeping statement about every other country in the world. And where was their any mention of parents or in laws who may or may not need support?

As for, how I bought a house -- the same way that you did, no doubt. I arrived, I found a job and made sure that my expenses were less than my earnings and I saved. More specifically, I lived in a shared house for 5 years where the rent was split between me and the six other young people I lived with. I found a temp job paying $15 an hour when I first arrived, and a professional job at a non profit soon after. I continued to live frugally. My downpayment was about $15k, a large chunk of which came from the only Christmas bonus I have ever received. I did 5 percent down and had a second loan (HELOC) to avoid PMI. House cost somewhat less than $300k, I was rounding up. Closing costs were rolled into the loan. When I bought the house I was earning about $70k. It's not possible to buy a house as soon as your arrive in the country even if I'd had tens of thousands of dollars. You need a US work history and a credit history, neither of which I had.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education. But I think we're slipping away from that. I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads. Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged. But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations. Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.

I am a Gen X-er, just cracked into the 40's, I am not *that* much older. When I graduated with a tech degree in the late 90s, we were hit with the tech bubble burst, followed by a stressful recession. The generation before me can talk about how unemployment cracked over 10% in the early 80's. My point is every generation can talk about some economic issue. What's been annoying is that the millenials are thus far the only generation to blame their lack of success on external factors, along with a sense of entitlement. This is not just me talking here, but a general trend of your generation.

Yes, tuition costs are higher now in absolute terms but it's the rate of increase that is most indicative of "who had it worst". Take a look:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-rates-growth-published-charges-decade

As you can see, the annual tuition increases were worse for my generation and even Gen-Y than yours. You don't hear us complaining about it. Okay, I did actually complain about it - I remember going to the MD general assembly and protesting tuition increases together with a bunch of other students. But the point is we didn't let that be an excuse for excessive student loan debt or not being able to get a good education. One significant difference, however, is that student loans and other forms of financial aid are far more plentiful now than it was when I went to college. It was rare for college kids to rack up huge debts because it was tougher to get loans. Also, fewer of your contemporaries are working their way through school, as shown here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/how-many-students-can-actually-work-their-way-through-school/258836/

I recruit/hire people for my company and we have plenty of junior level positions that we simply are unable to fill. When my wife and I started working in our early 20s, we understood that our strength was not experience, but youth and energy. We were willing to work hard, travel, be willing to put in some strange hours because the older guys with family weren't. Instead of eager and energetic go-getters, we get a bunch of laid back slackers with no ambition and who think their degree should automatically guarantee them a $60k salary.

1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education. But I think we're slipping away from that. I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads. Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged. But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations. Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.

I am a Gen X-er, just cracked into the 40's, I am not *that* much older. When I graduated with a tech degree in the late 90s, we were hit with the tech bubble burst, followed by a stressful recession. The generation before me can talk about how unemployment cracked over 10% in the early 80's. My point is every generation can talk about some economic issue. What's been annoying is that the millenials are thus far the only generation to blame their lack of success on external factors, along with a sense of entitlement. This is not just me talking here, but a general trend of your generation.

Yes, tuition costs are higher now in absolute terms but it's the rate of increase that is most indicative of "who had it worst". Take a look:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-rates-growth-published-charges-decade

As you can see, the annual tuition increases were worse for my generation and even Gen-Y than yours. You don't hear us complaining about it. Okay, I did actually complain about it - I remember going to the MD general assembly and protesting tuition increases together with a bunch of other students. But the point is we didn't let that be an excuse for excessive student loan debt or not being able to get a good education. One significant difference, however, is that student loans and other forms of financial aid are far more plentiful now than it was when I went to college. It was rare for college kids to rack up huge debts because it was tougher to get loans. Also, fewer of your contemporaries are working their way through school, as shown here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/how-many-students-can-actually-work-their-way-through-school/258836/

I recruit/hire people for my company and we have plenty of junior level positions that we simply are unable to fill. When my wife and I started working in our early 20s, we understood that our strength was not experience, but youth and energy. We were willing to work hard, travel, be willing to put in some strange hours because the older guys with family weren't. Instead of eager and energetic go-getters, we get a bunch of laid back slackers with no ambition and who think their degree should automatically guarantee them a $60k salary.

1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did. And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age? You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates. It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?[/quote]

You are making a lot of (incorrect) assumptions here.

You do understand that there are several people on this thread. The Gen X pp above, is not the same person as the PP who came to the US with $2k (me).

If you think that you get free degrees and don't pay any tuition overseas then you are willfully ignorant. You realize, you just made a wide sweeping statement about every other country in the world. And where was their any mention of parents or in laws who may or may not need support?

As for, how I bought a house -- the same way that you did, no doubt. I arrived, I found a job and made sure that my expenses were less than my earnings and I saved. More specifically, I lived in a shared house for 5 years where the rent was split between me and the six other young people I lived with. I found a temp job paying $15 an hour when I first arrived, and a professional job at a non profit soon after. I continued to live frugally. My downpayment was about $15k, a large chunk of which came from the only Christmas bonus I have ever received. I did 5 percent down and had a second loan (HELOC) to avoid PMI. House cost somewhat less than $300k, I was rounding up. Closing costs were rolled into the loan. When I bought the house I was earning about $70k. It's not possible to buy a house as soon as your arrive in the country even if I'd had tens of thousands of dollars. You need a US work history and a credit history, neither of which I had.