Anonymous
Post 05/23/2012 00:50     Subject: (AAP) All About Prepping?
The SAT is not an ability test- see 00:29 above.

And this thread is not about the SAT; this thread is about the CogAT and other tests taken by first and second graders and used for identification of students for the Advanced Academics Program.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2012 00:49     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
The name of the SAT was changed years ago. The "A" used to stand for "Aptitude" but it was changed to "Achievement."


Too funny. The College Board has a great marketing department...straight out of Northwestern School of Business. Very low cost makeover.

Sounds like "The Scarlet Letter".
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2012 00:47     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
The name of the SAT was changed years ago. The "A" used to stand for "Aptitude" but it was changed to "Achievement."

Here's the answer to the question "What is the SAT?" directly from the SAT website:

"The SAT doesn’t test logic or abstract reasoning. It tests the skills you’re learning in school: reading, writing and math. Your knowledge and skills in these subjects are important for success in college and throughout your life.

The critical reading section includes reading passages and sentence completions.
The writing section includes a short essay and multiple-choice questions on identifying errors and improving grammar and usage.
The mathematics section includes questions on arithmetic operations, algebra, geometry, statistics and probability."


____________________________________________________


When I took the SAT ability test many decades ago (well before the change you mention) the test included:

critical reading sections including reading passages and sentence completion
antonyms and synonyms, analogies
the quantitative section (math) had arithematic operations, algebra, geometry a little probabilty and statistics

I think you are very gullible. If the College Board was going to join the money makers they clearly had to change the marketing. From what I have seen each decade there is no material difference in subject matter (except for the essay or writing component and elimination of analogies).

There is no such creature as an ability test. The College Board never had one. The College Board owned up and reversed it's untenable scientific position and posture. All these tests are simply variations and mixtures of components of subject tests. Exposure, familiarity and repetitious practise with the subject matter can very definetley significantly improve scores and performance. It did in the 1960s and 1970s and it still does today.

There are no man made "ability" tests yet developed that are impervious to practise and prepping.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2012 00:36     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
Why do so many students prep for both the SAT reasoning ability and aptitude test; as well as the SAT subject achievement tests? Isn't it unethical to "prep" and get familiar with the SAT reasoning ability and aptitude test because it's an "ability" test? Why are so many people do it?

The textbooks (by Pearson) and fancy brochures say you cannot improve your performance by "prepping" or getting familiar with "ability" tests like you can with "subject" and achievement tests? When I was a student the College Board admonished us for preparing. "prepping" ar getting familiar with their SAT reasoning ability and aptitude test. They claimed prepping would not improve score and performance. I didn't believe them so I decided to test their hypothesis and took one of the early Kaplan courses. Guess what, I hit the ceiling as my scores went up an average of 150 points. Since this is an N of 1 the College Board claimed this outlier performance is likely pure randomness! My nephews and nieces are now taking the SAT reasoning ability and aptitude test and noticed the College Board (blue book) now markets a review book for this test similar to Barons, Princeton, and Kaplan. If you can't lick em then join em in shaking that money maker.

Hmm. Does the SAT ability and aptitude test test any subjects?

Anonymous
Post 05/23/2012 00:29     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
Anonymous wrote:
The SAT is an achievement test, it is not intended to be an ability test. The Cognitive Abilities Test (or CogAT) is intended to be an ability test. One may or may not believe that it is possible to measure ability, but the fact remains that that is the intended purpose of the test. The CogAT and the SAT are different types of tests and are used for different purposes.


The SAT reasoning ability test is an aptitude test. The SAT subject tests are achievement tests. This are two different types of tests with different costs and times administered during the school year. According to you, ability and achievement tests are different creatures. Not so? I suspect you are from the hinterlands in the midwest and took the ACT exam in your day.


The name of the SAT was changed years ago. The "A" used to stand for "Aptitude" but it was changed to "Achievement."

Here's the answer to the question "What is the SAT?" directly from the SAT website:

"The SAT doesn’t test logic or abstract reasoning. It tests the skills you’re learning in school: reading, writing and math. Your knowledge and skills in these subjects are important for success in college and throughout your life.

The critical reading section includes reading passages and sentence completions.
The writing section includes a short essay and multiple-choice questions on identifying errors and improving grammar and usage.
The mathematics section includes questions on arithmetic operations, algebra, geometry, statistics and probability."

Anonymous
Post 05/23/2012 00:18     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
The SAT is an achievement test, it is not intended to be an ability test. The Cognitive Abilities Test (or CogAT) is intended to be an ability test. One may or may not believe that it is possible to measure ability, but the fact remains that that is the intended purpose of the test. The CogAT and the SAT are different types of tests and are used for different purposes.


The SAT reasoning ability test is an aptitude test. The SAT subject tests are achievement tests. This are two different types of tests with different costs and times administered during the school year. According to you, ability and achievement tests are different creatures. Not so? I suspect you are from the hinterlands in the midwest and took the ACT exam in your day.
Anonymous
Post 05/23/2012 00:11     Subject: (AAP) All About Prepping?
The SAT is an achievement test, it is not intended to be an ability test. The Cognitive Abilities Test (or CogAT) is intended to be an ability test. One may or may not believe that it is possible to measure ability, but the fact remains that that is the intended purpose of the test. The CogAT and the SAT are different types of tests and are used for different purposes.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2012 23:54     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
Prepping for a test that measures knowledge is expected

Prepping for a test that measures ability is questionable...in both ethics and effectiveness

They are not even remotely the same thing.


Since there are no tests that measure ability ( in a large measure despite false claims to the contrary) therefore exposure, familiarity and knowledge of the test subject material cannot be unethical. Exposure and familiarity of the test subject material is effective.

By your logic, the hundreds of millions of students (and parents) who have taken the SAT reasoning ability and aptitude test over the decades after "prepping" are unethical despite the claim of ineffectiveness in improving scores and performance. It's a wonder the Big 3 and other educational institutions around the land even continue to sponsor year -round and summer "prep" courses (for $$$$) for their students taking the SAT reasoning ability and aptitude test! Why? For the money or for the ethics? Isn't this pure irony or hypocrisy? Which reasoning ability and aptitude tests qualify for "prepping" and which of these tests would you prefer children to take a one year vacation in Papua New Guinea without computers, books and access to information of the type on your selected test or exam prior to sitting for your vaulted "aptitude" test?
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2012 23:29     Subject: (AAP) All About Prepping?
Anonymous wrote:Prepping for a test that measures knowledge is expected

Prepping for a test that measures ability is questionable...in both ethics and effectiveness

They are not even remotely the same thing.


Anonymous
Post 05/22/2012 23:02     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
All the man made tests of "ability" in fact measure prior exposure, familiarity and knowledge. Simple trace the history of the development of the SAT aptitude and reasoning test many decades ago. Recall the prevailing mantra then (for a decade): preparation ("prep") and exposure is useless one cannot increase one's score or performance through "prepping" . I think you remain frozen in time and biology has moved on. Can you explain the variablity in your so-called "ability" testing in children? They must get smarter and dumber over time based on the Kool aid they drink?

All known "ability" test administered to children for entrance into schools, to date, are more tests of prior exposure and knowledge than true ability. Simply review the history (from leading psychologists and educators of the day) of the development of the SAT reasoning ability and aptitude test still administered today used for entrance to colleges and universities.

DCUMs understand this which explains why this group is among the most dedicated "preppers" of their children, even if they sheepishly fail to own up to it (all those tutors, camps and educational aids they purchase for their kids then try to get their tax preppers to deduct from their annual taxes...if they pay any). Just read this board for a few years ... you get their concerns and the real picture.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2012 22:58     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
Anonymous wrote:
I don't know if Barron and Princeton Review produce CogAT study materials, but if they do, that is exactly the type of "test prep" to which the OP was referring. Sure, one could refer to a family atmosphere which engenders a love of reading and art and music as "test prep," but really, that is not what is in the average person's mind when the term "test prep" is used. When people ask which CogAT form will be used this year or which book they should buy to prep a rising second grader for the CogAT this Fall, the answer they are looking for does not involve reading to their children every night or going to art museums or enjoying good music together. All the other ways of "prepping" mentioned here are surely good for a child's well-being and long term education, but they are not what the average person means by the use of the term "test prep."


Sounds like you are suspicious of this method of preparation (at least for babies) but it's ok when they grow up into teenagers and adults?


No suspicion of any method mentioned here, just discussing the general understanding of the meaning of the term "test prep."


Anonymous
Post 05/22/2012 22:41     Subject: (AAP) All About Prepping?
Prepping for a test that measures knowledge is expected

Prepping for a test that measures ability is questionable...in both ethics and effectiveness

They are not even remotely the same thing.
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2012 22:35     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
I don't know if Barron and Princeton Review produce CogAT study materials, but if they do, that is exactly the type of "test prep" to which the OP was referring. Sure, one could refer to a family atmosphere which engenders a love of reading and art and music as "test prep," but really, that is not what is in the average person's mind when the term "test prep" is used. When people ask which CogAT form will be used this year or which book they should buy to prep a rising second grader for the CogAT this Fall, the answer they are looking for does not involve reading to their children every night or going to art museums or enjoying good music together. All the other ways of "prepping" mentioned here are surely good for a child's well-being and long term education, but they are not what the average person means by the use of the term "test prep."


Sounds like you are suspicious of this method of preparation (at least for babies) but it's ok when they grow up into teenagers and adults?
Anonymous
Post 05/22/2012 22:02     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
Anonymous wrote:
Generally, when people refer to prepping they are talking about time spent working on the types of questions they expect to see on a particular test. That is why people ask which form of the test will be given.
They are not talking about general exposure to "western humanity and books."


So you are telling me if studying arithematic, reading, vocabulary, analogies and similies will not prepare me for test questions? Who needs the actual questions if you know and are familiar what subject domains are tested? One can indeed "prep" without taking a course, attending a "prep" salon, working on the next Princeton or Barons review guidebook. One does not need secondary sources (questions) to "prep" for a test. You can prep with the primary source (exposure to good literature and books). What do you think folk did before Princeton Review when there were libraries, pen and paper..."prep" my dear "prep". The best "prep" is to actually anticipate and make up your own questions based on the subject matter/content of test. In the days before Baron and Princeton review we tried to predict the questions and at least 1/3 to 1/2 would show up in some shape or form.

You can "prep" with spending time working on the types of questions (e.g., Princeton review) and you can "prep" studying the subject material and thinking about the types of questions you may encounter. It's all "prep" for heaven's sake. Increasing "prep" is positively correlated with increasing SES (it matters not the flavor of "prep"...the end is the same).



I don't know if Barron and Princeton Review produce CogAT study materials, but if they do, that is exactly the type of "test prep" to which the OP was referring. Sure, one could refer to a family atmosphere which engenders a love of reading and art and music as "test prep," but really, that is not what is in the average person's mind when the term "test prep" is used. When people ask which CogAT form will be used this year or which book they should buy to prep a rising second grader for the CogAT this Fall, the answer they are looking for does not involve reading to their children every night or going to art museums or enjoying good music together. All the other ways of "prepping" mentioned here are surely good for a child's well-being and long term education, but they are not what the average person means by the use of the term "test prep."

Anonymous
Post 05/22/2012 20:29     Subject: Re:(AAP) All About Prepping?
Yeah, some prefer to stuff themselves with modern Burger King "fast food" (Princeton Review); others prefer a longer 4 course meal with wine (primary sources..."whole" food). In the end, given our appetites, we all get terribly fat and obese.