Anonymous
Post 04/14/2013 09:25     Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:To help clear up the essay issue (btw, my DD - white, GT Center - did get in to TJ, so I've got no agenda or sour grapes)..
The two essays the students take on entrance exam day are unique, in that one has a MORAL component and the other one TJ tells the kids they will grade looking at technique, grammar, etc. From what I hear from teachers and our GT counselor, TJ takes the MORAL essay very seriously. Even though they say there's no right answer, the feeling among teachers is that if a student gives off the wrong vibe in that essay, it doesn't matter if it is written like a Harvard-ready thesis paper, the kid will get a low score.

This year the question was: you are a scientist who worked on a team discovering a cure for cancer, and you discover the cure while you are alone in the lab. Do you take the credit by yourself or do you tell your team and take the credit as a team.


Well, that explains how my DS got in. He wants to be a minister, not a scientist.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2013 09:12     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...a school full of absolutely driven, competitive students who can't even fully comprehend instruction in English...


i agree it's problematic that TJ accepts kids who need ESL, but the above is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? i believe the facts are, that there's only a handful students who need ESL.


It is far more than a handful.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2013 09:10     Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:To be fair, PP, the Wash Post has done at least three negative articles on TJ in the last month (each one centering around the lopsided Asian admittance) and has also run a whole series on the pressure Asian parents put on their kids re: Math and Science, especially in Korea where a huge majority of parents pay for extra tutoring to increase the child's score on tests. It's not just this thread. Personally, my DC got in to TJ this year and we are probably turning it down in favor of the IB program at Marshall, almost entirely due to the fact that my DC doesn't want to go to a school where the supposedly smartest kids in the county/country need remedial English lessons. DC has many friends who should have been shoo-ins get rejection letters. Here's the hard facts - Fairfax[i] County is only 17% Asian. TJ is now 57% Asian. 224 African American students applied and they took only 6, rejecting two AA students at my DC's GT Center School who are straight-A award winning students. So please don't bash the parents on this thread. Facts are the facts, and lots of folks in the media and local government are focusing on this now.


as in, George Marshall HS on Rt 7 in Falls Church? you're out of your mind.

I am leaning towards doing the same thing for my DS.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2013 09:06     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My (Asian) daughter didn't get in after 4.0, 100% on the test, stellar teacher recommendations, Decent Essays, a math passionate person in Algebra2/Trig in 8th grade, Chess champion, Chamber violinist, an all-star basketball player, Science Olympiad participant, Math counts winner. What else do you need? A paid student information sheet writer to write politically pleasing words??

Go figure!


Sorry but this post doesn't ring true to me. How do you know her essays were "decent"?


Do you mean it does not ring TRUE or not ring RIGHT?? It sounds plenty true to me, but not right.


There wasn't a dip in the Asian admittance rate this year so I have to believe she just didn't do well on the essays.
She sounds like someone who' has checked off all the right boxes at this point in life, but maybe she just doesn't write all that persuasively.


1. Essays [25%] - Persuasive writing
2. SIS [20%] - Rated on persuasive writing or true accomplishments that only come with true passion? She was rated deficient in this area
3. Teacher Reqs [20%] - There is no way for teachers to give a rating of exemplary. If they had they would have.
4. Math Test Score [20%]
5. Math & Science GPA [15%]

If they're rating 45%(25%+20%) on persuasive writing there is no way TJ would have needed an ESOL teachers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/as-thomas-jefferson-adds-help-for-poor-english-skills-some-va-parents-fume/2011/03/10/ABK7qVx_story.html

If they were rating accomplishments on SIS, then why did my daughter with so many accomplishments and true passion (she truly spends 15-20/wk doing extra math and that is the only time there is happiness in her). She expressed her passion like a 13 yr old. If it didn't come across as a passion because of average writing skills, does that lower the accomplishment to a nothing?
Is it fair to use 45% writing skills vs 35% academics. Does this point to messed up admissions process letting parents & professionals compete in the SIS space? Applicants get 3 weeks complete the SIS.

Does it sound fair to anyone? I totally agree reading and writing skills are a very important part of everything, but they shouldn't rank higher than Math & Science achievements, passion or their ability to do Math & Science.

Are persuasive writing skills more important than math and science abilities for scientist or mathematician? We do want scientist to be able to express, but also have meaningful material to express.

No, my daughter is not waitlisted.

You left out: race 100% race 100% race 100%
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2013 09:04     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous



No need to wait for the letter

If you are :

Asian-accepted
Black-sorry
White-You really need to be friends with an asian

This would be funny if it was not so racist.

This would be funny if it was not so true.

Actually, it is pretty funny.


There is no need for qualified AA students to apply at TJ -- the privates will take them in a heartbeat + FA. Life is good!
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2013 09:02     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:My (Asian) daughter didn't get in after 4.0, 100% on the test, stellar teacher recommendations, Decent Essays, a math passionate person in Algebra2/Trig in 8th grade, Chess champion, Chamber violinist, an all-star basketball player, Science Olympiad participant, Math counts winner. What else do you need? A paid student information sheet writer to write politically pleasing words??

Go figure!


She can have my DDs place, but wait, my DD is Hispanic.
Anonymous
Post 04/14/2013 09:00     Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:You may think of this note as a usual complaint, but I just wanted to let you know that TJ will have to start preparing a serious remediation program for its upcoming freshmen class. Last year, I was part of a coaching program for students interested in joining TJ. All the mediocre students (scoring generally <70% in math, verbal and writing in sample tests at our Centre) who were semi-finalists for TJ class of 2017 made it to TJ. All the top kids from this class have been rejected by TJ admissions. Not even one out of 15 made it to TJ. It came as a shock to me. They all scored above 48 in Math and above 45 in Verbal. These kids are among the top performers in their middle schools and possess superior writing and math skills. These top kids did not need to be at our Centre because they were naturally talented. If the goal of the admissions office was to select the students with true interest in STEM, I can assure you, most of the selected students from our coaching Centre will disappoint TJ.
The admission process has miserably failed TJ yet again. It is such a shame for a school that wants to maintain its top status. TJ will find out next year that most of these students lack fundamental understanding in arithmetic and algebra 1. My understanding is that the math portion of the test was very easy and that even 6th graders could have solved most of these problems easily. This allowed even the mediocre kids to score between 38 and 45 in math portion of the test. I know the school always claims that its admission process is fair and holistic. The school will find out about this group of freshmen capabilities from its teachers next year. TJ admission office truly has done a disservice to the school yet again because it has selected undeserving students over the genuinely talented ones. I guarantee you about this because I know I dealt with this group closely for over 12 months.


After 5 years in the AAP program, you get to know the other students. Going to a center school, you meet most if not all of the students. You know who is the top and most motivated students. Do the math with ease. Science project awards. Invent apps and win National awards. And so on. The top tier. Then there is the second tier. Do the math but with some struggle and not but so interested. Do the science but not really an interest. The "pushed by parents" group. The smart but EMO group. As a former teacher with years of experience, it is not hard to see who is who.
Admission rolls around: Across the board, as the other poster said, the top tier are rejected, the second tier are accepted. I do not think that the admission process is failing as much as I think it has an agenda. Not sure what the agenda is, but it is not to accept the best students.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2013 13:21     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
^^Agree! Try going down there and see for yourself.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2013 13:15     Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You may think of this note as a usual complaint, but I just wanted to let you know that TJ will have to start preparing a serious remediation program for its upcoming freshmen class. Last year, I was part of a coaching program for students interested in joining TJ. All the mediocre students (scoring generally <70% in math, verbal and writing in sample tests at our Centre) who were semi-finalists for TJ class of 2017 made it to TJ. All the top kids from this class have been rejected by TJ admissions. Not even one out of 15 made it to TJ. It came as a shock to me. They all scored above 48 in Math and above 45 in Verbal. These kids are among the top performers in their middle schools and possess superior writing and math skills. These top kids did not need to be at our Centre because they were naturally talented. If the goal of the admissions office was to select the students with true interest in STEM, I can assure you, most of the selected students from our coaching Centre will disappoint TJ.
The admission process has miserably failed TJ yet again. It is such a shame for a school that wants to maintain its top status. TJ will find out next year that most of these students lack fundamental understanding in arithmetic and algebra 1. My understanding is that the math portion of the test was very easy and that even 6th graders could have solved most of these problems easily. This allowed even the mediocre kids to score between 38 and 45 in math portion of the test. I know the school always claims that its admission process is fair and holistic. The school will find out about this group of freshmen capabilities from its teachers next year. TJ admission office truly has done a disservice to the school yet again because it has selected undeserving students over the genuinely talented ones. I guarantee you about this because I know I dealt with this group closely for over 12 months.


It seems incredibly sleazy for you to post this, assuming this isn't fabricated. It's not like being a coach is privileged, like being a doctor, lawyer or priest, but weren't you purportedly mentoring kids interested in going to TJ? If so, you should be congratulating them, not second-guessing TJ's decision to admit them.

It's not fabricated at all. Of course I am proud of all the students who got accepted to TJ. I was just making a point that TJ admission process is ridiculous. A large percentage of deserving kids are being rejected by the TJ admission office. My problem is that I did a straight talk and unfortunately, I have the data to support my assertion.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2013 10:03     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
^^at TJ.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2013 10:03     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
I think this would be my DS, as he is a minority and did not score well. Very active in outside activites. Sounds like a lot of tutoring next year.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2013 18:37     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions
The model seems to be working for the Harvard and UVAs of the country. Remember, diversity is a good thing, not a bad thing. High test scores/grades alone do not make great students or great peers!
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2013 14:41     Subject: Re:TJ Admissions

Wow, what makes you assume these students were not qualified?
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2013 14:26     Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You may think of this note as a usual complaint, but I just wanted to let you know that TJ will have to start preparing a serious remediation program for its upcoming freshmen class. Last year, I was part of a coaching program for students interested in joining TJ. All the mediocre students (scoring generally <70% in math, verbal and writing in sample tests at our Centre) who were semi-finalists for TJ class of 2017 made it to TJ. All the top kids from this class have been rejected by TJ admissions. Not even one out of 15 made it to TJ. It came as a shock to me. They all scored above 48 in Math and above 45 in Verbal. These kids are among the top performers in their middle schools and possess superior writing and math skills. These top kids did not need to be at our Centre because they were naturally talented. If the goal of the admissions office was to select the students with true interest in STEM, I can assure you, most of the selected students from our coaching Centre will disappoint TJ.
The admission process has miserably failed TJ yet again. It is such a shame for a school that wants to maintain its top status. TJ will find out next year that most of these students lack fundamental understanding in arithmetic and algebra 1. My understanding is that the math portion of the test was very easy and that even 6th graders could have solved most of these problems easily. This allowed even the mediocre kids to score between 38 and 45 in math portion of the test. I know the school always claims that its admission process is fair and holistic. The school will find out about this group of freshmen capabilities from its teachers next year. TJ admission office truly has done a disservice to the school yet again because it has selected undeserving students over the genuinely talented ones. I guarantee you about this because I know I dealt with this group closely for over 12 months.


Thank you for posting this. It seems a lot has changed after the long time admissions director retired a few years ago and the new person was hired. The attempt to get more African American and hispanic students means they will turn away many more qualified students who will be successful and admit many students who are not capable of doing well in the rigorous classes. But they can claim they have more diversity.


TJ offers admission to 5 African Americans and 15 Hispanics this year. Past years had similar numbers. Now do this math: How many "more qualified students" have been turned away to seat those 20 students? Assuming of course that none of them is qualified.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2013 14:09     Subject: TJ Admissions
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


So why is this happening? I don't understand. What is the admissions looking for and why are they selecting students with poorer math skills? Is it in favor of kids who are stroner is Science?


I meant "stronger in Science."

My feeling is that TJ wants all minorities to do well in math test and therefore, it has lowered the test standard especially the math portion of the test. You may not believe this, but in the last test there was not even a single word algebra problem. The geometry problems were also very easy, so no effort was made to distinguish between those students who are good in math vs the mediocre or poor students. The TJ also rejected a lot kids who did a great job on SIS because it assumed that these kids were coached and not naturally talented. However, as part of SIS guidance, the school emphasized that students conduct research about various clubs it offers and research opportunities it provides including internship opportunities. Those who took their guidance seriously did a fine job on SIS, but TJ deemed them as being coached and not possessing aptitude for STEM. The admission office needs to hire a psychiatrist to give some sense to the people who are running the office. I am positive that this school is going down the drain. Currently enrolled students do not have enough time to think creatively...it is predominately cramming. I have yet to find a famous alumni of this school... some one who has made a significant difference in people's lives because of his or her research in medical or IT or any other scientific field.


Do you know what the SIS questions were this year? When my child applied, they were asked, among other things, to write about their academic and non-academic interests outside of school. My child had a time-consuming non-academic interest which became the topic for some of the short answer questions. I am sure the committee could tell how genuine my child's pursuit of this particular interest is.

I wonder if part of the reason some students may not be accepted is that they spend very little time in non-academic pursuits. I think that a child who has a high GPA and high test scores while also spending many hours in activities that are unrelated to academics will be more likely to be successful at TJ. They've shown that they can be successful at the middle school level with time left over, so they are more likely to do well at a high school that will require many hours of homework. A kid who has already learned to manage his or her time well in middle school will likely continue to do so. On the other hand a child who does well but spends all his outside of school hours in academic interests (math club, science club, tutoring, going to the TJ coaching centre) runs the risk of being seen as someone who is doing well only because of a lot of outside support.

Homework at TJ takes a lot of time, no two ways about it. If it takes all of a child's time to be successful in middle school, is that child going to be able to manage the demands of TJ?


This also happens with college admissions. Colleges are looking for students who will contribute to the college community. Applicants who can achieve at a high level academically while still being engaged with outside the classroom activities have proven that they can handle the college workload while being part of organizations such as sports teams, musical and theatre groups, and philanthropic groups. Kids who have the time to play an instrument in the band or orchestra, sing in a musical, act in a play, run with the track team, or work to help others add to the the experience of all at a school.