Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, wow OK. I know I have responded to your posts before. My stbx had an affair 10 years ago, which I forgave. Then he blindsided me by leaving a year ago. It turns out it was another affair. I've become weird trauma besties with the other woman's husband. My ex also has a drinking problem.

Friend, what are you doing? No. You should be detaching much more than this. I have very intentionally held myself at a distance from my ex. When he tries to dump things on me, I go grey rock and compose funny texts about it to send to my friends later (Heroic Father Congratulates Self for Buying Food). I see how much I can get away with responding only "No way" or "Oh, bummer" in a flat tone of voice to whatever he says.

It has worked. There was the utter grief, then the anger, and now the detachment and indifference (understanding that it is of course fluid and non-linear). My stbx is a flaming dumpster fire of chaos, though to be fair, (currently) not to the level of your ex. When he sent me a sad selfie of himself in the hospital after breaking a bone doing a stupid sport (that he absolutely also sent to his girlfriend), I said, "Oh, bummer." Haha. I didn't ask about his surgery or how he was flying home with a broken bone or anything. Not my circus, not my monkeys. When I made a pointed remark about him driving when he wasn't supposed to, he unleashed a novel's worth of complaints about how he was "supporting both of us" and blah blah blah. I didn't read it carefully or respond. Detach, detach, detach. That is what divorce means.

I think your kids are older? Mine are younger teens. They see him for what he is. They are constantly disappointed. "Daddy literally has no food. Like, what does he expect us to do?" "I hate how Daddy makes us DoorDash ourselves dinner every night while he goes out." "Daddy always says he can give me a ride and then the day before he tells me I have to find a ride." It's frustrating. But I cannot save them from those frustrations. I mean, I'm not going to leave my kid stranded on the side of the road. I will go pick them up. But I do NOT anticipate all the ways he is going to let them down and then problem-solve that for him. I did do that, for many years. That was our marriage. I was really good at it. But I am so, so happy to be freed from that burden. Seriously, sometimes I cry about how happy I am to be relieved of it.

Also . . . dating? Like, right away? When you haven't done the work on your co-dependency?

I don't mean to come down too hard on you or to act like I have all the answers. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, haha. And I know you are trying to hold the world together, just as you always have. But there's no shortcuts here. Take a step back from all the men in your life and just let yourself be. Be alone with yourself for a minute until you can hear your own voice again.

My ex has literally left my kid stranded at a high school football game when he was ~11. Dropped him off. Forgot to pick him up. Phone died. Kid waited under the bleachers so the security guards wouldn’t question him. Called me once it was obvious dad would never show up. These things happen, but he’s now proficient in using uber, and can cook for himself if he doesn’t want door dash. The silver lining is that he’s much more mature and independent than his friends. He knows dad is unreliable but doesn’t completely hate him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here sorry it was Oct 2024. He started moving stuff last week of Oct and started sleeping there first week of Nov.

And yep, I met someone by accident in December and it has been a very slow process. I've been completely honest with him.

Be careful, OP. I don’t know how you’ll be able to continue to take it slow while needing to be the sole responsible parent. And while you may think he seems great, you once thought your ex was a great guy too.

The logistics have changed, OP can’t afford a sitter and will likely have kids more.

OP, in all kindness, a healthy man would not have gotten involved in this given the timing. Has he met your kids?

Given that you have family nearby is there a college aged or YA relative who might want to move in for cheap rent in exchange for help w/childcare and driving?

All these excuses NOT to leave these lying drunk cheating men alone

Telling.

Anonymous wrote:"Stability for the children"? Don't make me laugh. You're the one who can't let go. Your children's father is in a self-destructive spiral. Don't you dare let him near your kids. You are their mother and you owe them safety first. They'll be fine if they never see him again, OP!

Forget dating, OP. Al Anon and Coda for you. You are an enmeshed mesh. No therapist is going to be able to offset the terrible example you are providing for your kids. Do not do an illegal rental, that will also come back to bite you.

Did either of your parents have a drinking problem or other addiction? This is not just about this guy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here-
He started acting depressed Jan 2020
Made worse by the pandemic March 2020
Affair was Feb 2020 til I found out in Jan 2023
I was devastated and got into therapy, he got into therapy and was really trying it appeared.
October 2023 I caught him texted his exgf and I kicked him out.

Between Jan 2020 - October 2023 there was around 5 or 6 instances of binge drinking- a work christmas party + bar after, a hang out with his best childhood guy friend, a wedding, and then 2 or 3 random times.

Those were all spread out enough over 4 years that it didn't feel or register to me as a major issue.

Since he moved out in October, there was one day in December he went to a guys poker night and I heard he was drunk from a mutual friend. But he didn't have the kids and it didn't really raise any red flags for me. Then the DUi happened in June.

Maybe I handled things incorrectly or was used to all my friends' husbands being drunk occassionally or was too preoccupied with the other things (cheating, job searching, parenting etc) to focus in on that.

All I hear from everyone- my kids, my family, his family, mutual friends, neighbors- how good of a dad he is. I understand that being a good dad doesn't happen in a vaccuum and that hurting your kids' mom, causing the family to break up does not equate to being a good dad. But I never thought I shouldn't give him 50% custody or the kids are in any danger in his care.

All I can be is honest and this is certainly not how I thought my life would end up and i am happy for everyone else who has it easier than I do, and I hope that my sharing can be beneficial to someone else who is struggling.

As for dating- I didn't intend to at all. I accidentally met someone. He is the most kind, thoughtful, intelligent, patient person I can imagine. He has become a true friend, confidant, and safe place for me. I have told him a million times that I will absolutely be understanding if this is too much and we have taken everything very slow. Maybe I'm still being selfish.

I'm the person who asked "what the hell happened?" This is so sad, it's almost banal, but wow. He completely self-destructed. I'm really sorry. I really was rooting for you guys, you seem grounded. I can get how someone gets a little depressed, starts sexting (I'm not saying it's right), having a little too much "fun" (drinking culture is out of control)... but to get to the point now, alcoholic, no license, jobless, about to lose his home and (possibly) custody of his kids. To not have insurance for his kids!!! To not be able to drive himself to a job interview!!! He may not even pass the background check because it's so recent. He's completely screwed, it's definitely not because he drove drunk ONE time and just happened to get caught.

Many of your younger siblings, cousins, and friends will see the same play out.

I respect you for giving it your all and fighting through it, while he folded like a deck of cards.

With every chapter of this saga it becomes clear that OP both shielded her STBX from the consequences of his actions and ignored or covered them too.

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Anonymous wrote:I believe the last update I gave DCUM was that soon to be ex husband moved out in October. He moved a couple blocks away, we put a lot of effort into a smooth and cohesive transition for the kids. Kids have been thriving 90%, our 7yo has started to get some anxiety about going back to school again. I don't thin it's divorce related, but on the radar none the less.

Then in June he got a DUI. He is going to lose his license for 9 months beginning in November. This is costing a lot of money and going to force a restructuring of driving logistics for the kids. He will apply for a permit to drive them to/from school, but I do not want them to all of a sudden not be able to do activities, playdates, outings, etc.

I was justttt starting to wrap my brain around options for that. He has not drank since the dui, upped his therapy to twice a week, started running everyday, became more communicative with me, his family/friends and generally spent this summer getting his sh-t together.

He just called me sobbing that he got laid off this morning. He made $200k, I just got a major promotion two weeks ago up to $130k and was SO pumped to beef up my retirement, kids 529s, and generally be less financially stressed. He is getting 6 weeks severance. We are all on his health insurance, my job doesn't offer it at all. He already drained his half of our savings from the dui.

I cannot afford the house, his rent, all utilities, his dui, childcare, etc etc etc.

I have spent a year really building an independent life for myself. I have put SO MUCH into the kids stability and being a great mom and therapy and professional development and not letting the dissolution of my life eat me alive.

This is not top priority at all but I have been dating someone absolutely wonderful since December and I was so looking forward to steadily progressing that relationship.

What do I do now? Kids stability and financial stability need to be prioritized.
I have an inlaw suite in my basement. Do I tell him to break his lease and move in there (his rent + utilities are $2200/m)? How would this affect the kids after they are doing great with all the transitions we've had this past year? It would absolutely put my mental health in the gutter to have to share a living space with him. I want to die thinking of having a non-working, non-driving ex living in my basement and sharing all living spaces.

Do I try to rent my basement to someone else? It is not a legal rental but maybe could airbnb or find a friend of a friend under the table thing.

Do I pull our little one out of daycare? ($1700/m) She is 4.5yo and really loves it there.

Do I tell him to figure it out and I'm done? Our divorce should be final in a couple months and if I owe him alimony and child support, I won't be able to keep the house.

I'm sorry, what? WHAT?! You started dating someone two months after your husband moved out? That is INSANE. I couldn't even read past that point.

Meh, he was cheating on her for 3 years, plus how ever long he's been checked out for. Good for her for trying to move on.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of puritanical scolding of divorced or single moms for dating.

Issue now is with the lack of a stable co-parent is if dating is logistically feasible.

It's always so crazy to me that no one gives the same admonishing for men dating *during* their marriage, but oh no, two months after is too soon?! For a woman we can never do right. I'm assuming OP has enough on her plate right now that dating isn't top priority but you never know.

I dated while I was separated before I was divorced (and met my current husband then) BUT I didn't have kids, hadn't been cheated on, etc. OP kicked her husband out of the house in October and started dating someone right after that and she's really into him? How does she have time for that nonsense while dealing with all of this stuff, never mind her kids.

From her previous posts things had simmered down. He moved close by, was still an active and involved parent, and now she had 50% time alone. Sounds like the perfect time, it doesn't seem odd at all.

I want to know what the hell happened. I've been following since her first post and I was rooting for them. In her updates, things seemed to be going fairly well. She was talking about how he was in therapy and learning how to communicate and was answering all her questions. Then he backslid and started talking to an old HS girlfriend. It was like, at that point maybe the marriage wasn't going to work out, but he still seemed like a solid person and stable co-parent, and now he's completely off the deep end.

I can relate to OP in that it took me a long time (and being blindsided with a separation) to figure out just how chaotic my stbx is. I get the sense that OP is also really good at looking down the road and anticipating problems. I focused so much on the positives and giving grace that I just didn't see him for the self-absorbed man-child that he is. He was always so convinced that he carried us and I was a non-factor.

So it's been kind of delicious to watch his world implode as he eliminates me from the equation. He immediately (I mean immediately . . . 4 days after he suddenly left me) bought himself an expensive house which was a terrible decision because he didn't know how our finances would be split and he also wanted to keep our vacation home. He didn't catch the basement flooding issue on the inspection and the house has a mold problem, which triggered an autoimmune disease that made all the skin on his face fall off.

We had to get lawyers because he would not budge on insisting that I accept these weird investments that he always said were a huge disappointment, so that was more stress and time and money. Yesterday we chatted about back to school night and he said, "Oh by the way, it's a good thing I kept those investments because they've been a total headache, and they changed something so I had to invest more money just to have it retain its value, and I'm really glad I saved you from dealing with that." And I was like, right right, sure, you are the hero in this situation in which you first made a bad investment and then triggered an expensive, less amicable divorce, only "saving me" because I held firm and refused what you were trying to dump on me. Like that's just how he views the world . . . he's a hero, and all the bad stuff that happens to him is just random and unpredictable.

His best friend chose me in the divorce, he's broken bones, a tooth fell out when he bit into a taco, he's started going bald, our kids think he's an incompetent idiot, his skin FELL OFF, he can't afford to get divorced (he's a super high earner, he's just a fool about what he does with it), his has flooding issues in both his attic and his basement, and the dog keeps peeing on his rug (ruining the 100 year old hardwoods underneath), but true to his personality, he simply doesn't believe the pee is happening. My daughter always reports to me: "Well, the dog is peeing on the rug every day, but Daddy thinks he isn't." Um right, I remember that guy clearly, the one who simply refused to believe anything inconvenient, and would look at me like I was some psycho who wanted the dog to be peeing on the rugs just so I could have something to talk about, I guess.

If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said I was happy in my marriage. We didn't fight, we had a good sex life, we had fun together. I was just in total denial about what a complete doofus he is. That's how I dealt with the stress of living with someone who was always trying to derail our lives . . . I just anticipated how things would go wrong and headed them off at the pass. I soothed, I encouraged, I absorbed all his complaints.

I mean, it is hilarious that this man left me. For a female version of himself who is definitely not going to manage his life for him! And I was so sad, and I cried so much. I really was. But my god this is one of the best things that has ever happened to me.

When he told me about the investment I said, "Well I have impeccable instincts." [Mic drop.] And he chuckled nervously.

Sorry, I don't have my kids this weekend and have lots of time to write a novel! But the point is, I simply couldn't see how stressful the marriage was for me. My doctor (for my chronic illness management) said to me the other week, "Now I don't want to say that you are thriving because I know that divorce is hard, but you really seem to be doing so well on so many metrics. Do you think it's possible that your husband is a narcissist?"

Anonymous wrote:I only read the first six pages- but why has no one suggested Al Anon for this OP?! Stop trying to keep him from failing, keeping him propped up will only extend this. He should also go to AA where they can call him out on his BS.

Yeah, I wrote the response directly above and that was my thought too.

On the day he left me, I told my stbx that he had a drinking problem. He said, "Thank you so much for telling me," like I had said something really nice. Um, OK. I told him he couldn't drive our kids if he'd been drinking. We put it in our separation agreement. My kids know not to drive with him if he's had more than two drinks. There's nothing else I can do. I can't make him stop drinking. He hasn't faced any consequences (directly) for it yet.

I did have 48 hours a couple of months ago where I felt like I should write him a letter about it. I spent some time writing the letter. "You say you don't always see things clearly . . ." Then I realized, no. I already told him this. I'm just frustrated that my speech didn't magically fix him, so now I'm going to try again. No. There's no point. The urge to send him a letter passed. I think it was also part of the grief process, that I never got the emotional consideration/apology/empathy/remorse that I deserve for all that he did and didn't do. But I'm really coming to know, deep down in my bones, that it doesn't matter. That nothing he could say or do would make the situation better. That my closure is in accepting his flaws and the impact they had on my life. I don't need to forgive him or help him or teach him.

And I know I've detached because I just really don't care. I don't care that he's taking his girlfriend on a trip we were going to take. I don't care when he asks for updates about stuff in my life . . . I don't wish him ill, but I don't respect him or his opinion, so I don't see any point in chatting with him. It's fine, we have a history, we share a love of our amazing children. But his path is his and mine is mine.

You've got to let him go, OP.

Hi OP, wow OK. I know I have responded to your posts before. My stbx had an affair 10 years ago, which I forgave. Then he blindsided me by leaving a year ago. It turns out it was another affair. I've become weird trauma besties with the other woman's husband. My ex also has a drinking problem.

Friend, what are you doing? No. You should be detaching much more than this. I have very intentionally held myself at a distance from my ex. When he tries to dump things on me, I go grey rock and compose funny texts about it to send to my friends later (Heroic Father Congratulates Self for Buying Food). I see how much I can get away with responding only "No way" or "Oh, bummer" in a flat tone of voice to whatever he says.

It has worked. There was the utter grief, then the anger, and now the detachment and indifference (understanding that it is of course fluid and non-linear). My stbx is a flaming dumpster fire of chaos, though to be fair, (currently) not to the level of your ex. When he sent me a sad selfie of himself in the hospital after breaking a bone doing a stupid sport (that he absolutely also sent to his girlfriend), I said, "Oh, bummer." Haha. I didn't ask about his surgery or how he was flying home with a broken bone or anything. Not my circus, not my monkeys. When I made a pointed remark about him driving when he wasn't supposed to, he unleashed a novel's worth of complaints about how he was "supporting both of us" and blah blah blah. I didn't read it carefully or respond. Detach, detach, detach. That is what divorce means.

I think your kids are older? Mine are younger teens. They see him for what he is. They are constantly disappointed. "Daddy literally has no food. Like, what does he expect us to do?" "I hate how Daddy makes us DoorDash ourselves dinner every night while he goes out." "Daddy always says he can give me a ride and then the day before he tells me I have to find a ride." It's frustrating. But I cannot save them from those frustrations. I mean, I'm not going to leave my kid stranded on the side of the road. I will go pick them up. But I do NOT anticipate all the ways he is going to let them down and then problem-solve that for him. I did do that, for many years. That was our marriage. I was really good at it. But I am so, so happy to be freed from that burden. Seriously, sometimes I cry about how happy I am to be relieved of it.

Also . . . dating? Like, right away? When you haven't done the work on your co-dependency?

I don't mean to come down too hard on you or to act like I have all the answers. I don't know what the hell I'm doing, haha. And I know you are trying to hold the world together, just as you always have. But there's no shortcuts here. Take a step back from all the men in your life and just let yourself be. Be alone with yourself for a minute until you can hear your own voice again.

I only read the first six pages- but why has no one suggested Al Anon for this OP?! Stop trying to keep him from failing, keeping him propped up will only extend this. He should also go to AA where they can call him out on his BS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here sorry it was Oct 2024. He started moving stuff last week of Oct and started sleeping there first week of Nov.

And yep, I met someone by accident in December and it has been a very slow process. I've been completely honest with him.

Be careful, OP. I don’t know how you’ll be able to continue to take it slow while needing to be the sole responsible parent. And while you may think he seems great, you once thought your ex was a great guy too.

OP, take it fwiw I don’t know you or the guy you are seeing but like others, alarm bells are going off for me. You are in an extremely vulnerable place right now and you have young children. It’s horrible to say but also the truth that many men look for women in exactly your situation bc they want to get to your child or children. Do not be naive. Let’s be honest you have a lot going on and it is all quite recent. The BF may be well intentioned but most men are not going to step into your situation right now unless there is something that makes it interesting for them. Not saying that you will never find someone and will end up alone forever, far from it! But the timing right here is suspect. You have done so much to try to salvage your children’s sense of stability and happiness and build anew from the wreckage don’t risk everything by being blind to potential risks to your children’s wellbeing. Even if this man is well intentioned, I think you need to focus all of your energy right now on understanding why and how you ended up with your DH and being sure you will not make another mistake. It’s all way too soon.

update?

Gave up*

Anonymous wrote:I’m sorry, I’m a little embarrassed and did a deep dive here on this because these post are just so long and a lot. There are so many inconsistencies throughout from the very beginning- she admitted to writing a post before the affair post about many instances of secret drinking, she has family all around her in one set of posts, now her inlaws live in a different town and she has no one? While some things are oddly specific, it’s just a lot of inconsistencies to all be true.

My in laws sold their house and built an out of state retirement home.

I definitely changed some details in earlier posts because I didn't want to be identified but honestly have up with that because I received a ton of thoughtful feedback that was extemely valuable to me at the time when I wasn't really telling anyone what was going on. My extended family is all around me.

Do NOT let him move into the basement. No way.

Follow your lawyer’s advice on this because you do not want to wind up paying this guy spousal support. I didn’t read this entire thread, so I don’t know what industry he’s in or how employable he is. I’m sure the DUI doesn’t help. But even if he has to get some kind of minor job, he has to find something and work. It is definitely not your job to give him emotional support through this latest development. It sounds like you’ve done a good job making progress for yourself and your kids, and that is the only thing you should be focusing on.

Anonymous wrote:Op here sorry it was Oct 2024. He started moving stuff last week of Oct and started sleeping there first week of Nov.

And yep, I met someone by accident in December and it has been a very slow process. I've been completely honest with him.

This makes me feel sad that you lived with him for almost two years after the affair. That sounds horrible. I am sorry.