Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Yeah, I have reservations about those early time trials. The problem is there aren't officials from another team, so it's run entirely by the swim team. One of our A-meet swimmers had a bad false start problem, and she never beat her time trial time all summer. I had a video, she didn't really false start, but wow she was off that wall fast. It'd be pretty easy to just hit the timer when she started. I thought it was interesting my DD actually had better starts at the other team's starters at the A-meets. I think the other teams knew what she was up to. They made them stand down several times.

Anonymous wrote:Ohhh...I love PMSL. No A/B meets and relaxed vibes (once you are in a lower division.) Our meet manager/team reps never even see the seeding.

Fellow PMSL parent here and I agree! I feel like our team has the right balance of competition and fun.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

A year ago I would have scoffed at the possibility of this kind of dirty officiating, but it happens all over the league. Not every team, of course, but I’ve witnessed it in a lower division.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

I agree, they just need lane timers. The stratified practices are pretty annoying. Our club sets aside a couple lanes for the faster kids. Thirteen to eighteen kids per lanes in some instances or age groups.

I am ready for summer league to be over.

Stratified practices can be necessary if kids are literally running into each other, which happens with the club swimmers on our summer team. The coaches sometimes have them practice up an age group so they fit in better. It's not like they're prodigies - it's just that they've chosen to work on this thing year-round while other kids have been getting good at other, different stuff. So stratified practices become a solution that offers both (some) challenge and (perhaps a bit more) safety, to cut down on collisions.

This definitely happens where a kid has a late birthday after summer swim season. Our coaches also know that the best swimmers are practicing with their club teams and are fine with them just showing up to A meets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

Yikes! Maybe I don't watch closely enough. Or maybe (being in PMSL - even Division A) it's not as cutthroat as NVSL and MCSL. But...wow. That's so unethical and gross. I can't imagine putting that much time and energy into training and certifying to be an official and then using that power to affect a meet like that. Ew.

I saw one meet where a dad was officiating where his own daughter was swimming an event and she DQ'd at the end (no separate 2-hand touch in butterfly) - he claimed he didn't see anything even though it was plain as day from where I stood. Unfortunately, it was in his "quadrant" of the pool and I couldn't call it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

Yikes! Maybe I don't watch closely enough. Or maybe (being in PMSL - even Division A) it's not as cutthroat as NVSL and MCSL. But...wow. That's so unethical and gross. I can't imagine putting that much time and energy into training and certifying to be an official and then using that power to affect a meet like that. Ew.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

DP here. Summer swim meets are supposed to be fun - but they are still a competition. Kids learn to win graciously and lose honorably, or whatever way you want to characterize things. Kids who choose to swim year-round are going to have an advantage over those who don't. Teams want to win, and having year-round kids swim in A meets increases the chances of this happening. This is no different than a team having "starters" and "backups", with the latter "riding the pine" more than the former. Yet when the team wins, all members of the team win.

Parents are always going to complain when their kid isn't getting the attention they think s/he deserves. I'm a summer swim official and save my indignation for officials from the other team who are playing favorites (ignoring DQs or issuing DQs) to help their team win. That's flat out wrong in my book.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

So do you think everyone should take turns swimming on Saturdays? That the swimmers who go to relay carnival get picked out of a hat? I have 2 kids. One is super fast and swims in everything. The other one has never made a Saturday meet. Both love summer swim and participate in all of the team activities and have made great summer friends. Personally I find it annoying when I sit and listen to parents complain that their child isn’t in a faster lane when they clearly don’t belong in it or complain because a coach isn’t giving them enough attention or just complain at all. Summer swim is cheap and can be the best 5 weeks of the summer for your kid if you just chill out, let them have fun and stop thinking that everything has to be absolutely equal at all times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre.
Teammates should be teammates.

Remember that swimming is also an objective sport: you either do or don't have the time for opportunity X. And yes, the kids who swim all winter are more likely to be able to post better times in the summer. So yes, sometimes in summer you are going to see the club kids reaping the benefit of their hard work by making A meets and relay carnivals. It's just the same as when the kids who take dance or voice outside of school try out for a show. They have a better chance because they have been working at these skills for more hours and more deeply. Less experienced kids can join in in various ways, but they are unlikely to be eligible for precisely the same opportunities.

Swimming tends to be a sore spot with people in this regard, perhaps because the performances are public, visible, and (again) objective. A great summer team with great culture will make every kid feel included and valued (which is by far the most important part of summer swim), but they can't make the times all equal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

fine, some kids will keep showing up to the A meets and the awards banquet and everyone else can "practice" 20 to a lane for an hour in freezing water then maybe go to a B meet. Its just bizarre. Teammates should be teammates.

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh I felt this yesterday. Another mom
Pointing out that her daughter moved up a lane. Just have fun it’s just summer swim.

This....why is nothing fun for kids anymore.

Northern VA is not a fun place every one is living through their kids and in constant competition mode. Sad.

No doubt it is highly competitive, but the most competitive parents are not necessarily living vicariously through their kids, but expecting the same level of excellence they achieved. This is a highly educated, top-of-the-class professional area. I have to check myself from time to time on expectations because I was fortunate to come from nothing, work really hard, and reach goals. We also have a diverse area, with many Asian and Indian families, and African families, bringing the overachiever/high expectations culture as well. Think Mommy Dearest without the wire hangers, not Mama Rose.

You sound like one of the parents contributing to the problem. I know several adults who grew up in this area with parents who pushed like this. They are a mess mentally. So much anxiety and imposter syndrome. Their own kids are struggling mentally too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

I agree, they just need lane timers. The stratified practices are pretty annoying. Our club sets aside a couple lanes for the faster kids. Thirteen to eighteen kids per lanes in some instances or age groups.

I am ready for summer league to be over.

Stratified practices can be necessary if kids are literally running into each other, which happens with the club swimmers on our summer team. The coaches sometimes have them practice up an age group so they fit in better. It's not like they're prodigies - it's just that they've chosen to work on this thing year-round while other kids have been getting good at other, different stuff. So stratified practices become a solution that offers both (some) challenge and (perhaps a bit more) safety, to cut down on collisions.

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

So don't join then. You know how it works and you understand the terms of participation and you prefer not to live with them, which is understandable - no one thing suits everyone. But some of us love summer swim and are willing to contribute to it. Live and let live.

Ohhh...I love PMSL. No A/B meets and relaxed vibes (once you are in a lower division.) Our meet manager/team reps never even see the seeding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole system is offensive. Mine were A meet kids and year round swimmers. But if they are all on the same team, they should all be able to swim at the same meet. Otherwise, why pay 200-300$ (or more ?) over your membership to have your kid attend packed, chaotic practices? Then get sent to the "B Meet" if your team is even "lucky" enough to have any.

I agree, they just need lane timers. The stratified practices are pretty annoying. Our club sets aside a couple lanes for the faster kids. Thirteen to eighteen kids per lanes in some instances or age groups.

I am ready for summer league to be over.

They can all swim at the same meets (every Monday), and they can all swim at the same practices (although many/most club swimmers go to their summer club practices, which actually frees up lane space for summer swimmers). Our registration is $150/swimmer or something really cheap, probably less/swimmer with multiples. Don’t really think you can get cheaper than that.