Stupid is as stupid does

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think America should close its doors for 4 years for everything. No more imports, no more foreigners. Try it out for 4 years and let’s see how quickly you become Mississippi….

The same Mississippi that has a higher GDP than the EU average and every country except Germany (which exceeds Mississippi by about €1,500?)

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/01/06/how-do-americas-poorest-states-compare-to-europes-largest-economies

Yeah, remove the government spending from that number and come back bragging.

To be clear, Mississippi's "GDP" includes billions in federal payments, SSA and HUD being the top two sources. They are a taker state.

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised (and maybe I’ve missed it) that no one has mentioned grants and subsidies that foreign governments use to fund their students abroad. For example, my kids roommates at an Ivy included two internationals who had most (or all? I didn’t press for details) of their tuition paid for by the governments of their countries. For one of them, repayment required x years of national service in a specific area of government, but it was a country that required national service anyway.

Foreign governments don't just pay tuition. They do fund research at these universities or provide some other enticement.

I’m surprised (and maybe I’ve missed it) that no one has mentioned grants and subsidies that foreign governments use to fund their students abroad. For example, my kids roommates at an Ivy included two internationals who had most (or all? I didn’t press for details) of their tuition paid for by the governments of their countries. For one of them, repayment required x years of national service in a specific area of government, but it was a country that required national service anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not ban foreigners from competing in the US Open Tennis grand slam? That way, more US players can qualify and play in the tournament. Is that a good thing? Will you buy tickets to a much, much more mediocre tournament? Will you enjoy the tournament without foreign players?

Now ask the same question about colleges.

Stupid analogy. The US Open Tennis Tournament is not funded with US taxpayer dollars. US colleges are, both in terms of research grant funds and with substantial financial aid programs without which the colleges would be unable to operate. Since US colleges cannot subsist without federal financial support, it is not unreasonable for the federal government to limit the number of foreigners taking advantage of said institutions.

How do you know the federal government does not fund the US open tennis tournament--have you looked into the subsidies and tax breaks provided to the host venues and American athletes?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think America should close its doors for 4 years for everything. No more imports, no more foreigners. Try it out for 4 years and let’s see how quickly you become Mississippi….

The same Mississippi that has a higher GDP than the EU average and every country except Germany (which exceeds Mississippi by about €1,500?)

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/01/06/how-do-americas-poorest-states-compare-to-europes-largest-economies

Yeah, remove the government spending from that number and come back bragging.

What about domestic students who want opportunities in other countries? No matter where they are, they pay tax to the United States. It's about having the widest footprint possible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

I am for intl students being enrolled, but my kid is at a T20, and I am surprised that probably the 25 I have spoken to are all receiving aid. Zero told me they are full pay. I used to think as you do now.

This appears true to me as well . Uncle Sam - via your taxes and by borrowing- funding it as T20s do not pay commensurate taxes to Uncle Sam like ordinary denizens…Seems quite unfair indeed….In fact brightest internationals will not be able to afford T20 without aid

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not ban foreigners from competing in the US Open Tennis grand slam? That way, more US players can qualify and play in the tournament. Is that a good thing? Will you buy tickets to a much, much more mediocre tournament? Will you enjoy the tournament without foreign players?

Now ask the same question about colleges.

Stupid analogy. The US Open Tennis Tournament is not funded with US taxpayer dollars. US colleges are, both in terms of research grant funds and with substantial financial aid programs without which the colleges would be unable to operate. Since US colleges cannot subsist without federal financial support, it is not unreasonable for the federal government to limit the number of foreigners taking advantage of said institutions.

DP. You are the ignorant one. US colleges are not funded by tax dollars. Research and faculty/student scholars are.

It's actually a good analogy, but you're too blinded by propaganda to notice.

Wrong again, moron. Federal financial aid is sent directly from the government to the schools, not to the students. The colleges thus are funded by the federal government.

dp.. I recall getting my pell grant check.

Oh look, OP. The WSJ Editorial Board disagrees with you. That’s embarrassing considering how conservative they are and pulled the entire board out in this one.

“The Trump Administration has frozen billions in federal grants to Harvard University, threatened its tax-exempt status, and sought to dictate its curriculum and hiring. Now the government seems bent on destroying the school for the offense of fighting back. And for what purpose?”

AND

“Even if it’s modified, Ms. Noem’s order will echo around the world as a signal that the U.S. is no longer open to educate the world’s brightest young people. Foreign students will get the message and take their talents elsewhere.”

We’re going to have a huge brain drain if Trump doesn’t correct this now. The US’s grip on AI is at risk. Do you want to lose those professors OP?

https://apple.news/AEcQtW-OcQZ-vORuyucwYdg

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not ban foreigners from competing in the US Open Tennis grand slam? That way, more US players can qualify and play in the tournament. Is that a good thing? Will you buy tickets to a much, much more mediocre tournament? Will you enjoy the tournament without foreign players?

Now ask the same question about colleges.

Stupid analogy. The US Open Tennis Tournament is not funded with US taxpayer dollars. US colleges are, both in terms of research grant funds and with substantial financial aid programs without which the colleges would be unable to operate. Since US colleges cannot subsist without federal financial support, it is not unreasonable for the federal government to limit the number of foreigners taking advantage of said institutions.

DP. You are the ignorant one. US colleges are not funded by tax dollars. Research and faculty/student scholars are.

It's actually a good analogy, but you're too blinded by propaganda to notice.

Wrong again, moron. Federal financial aid is sent directly from the government to the schools, not to the students. The colleges thus are funded by the federal government.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

I am for intl students being enrolled, but my kid is at a T20, and I am surprised that probably the 25 I have spoken to are all receiving aid. Zero told me they are full pay. I used to think as you do now.

International students at Harvard get the same financial aid as US citizens. I can’t find a number for Harvard, but USNWR says 40% of international students (from schools that report a #) are on financial aid, and I would assume that number would be higher for Harvard, since they are so much more generous with regard to aid in general.

What schools charge higher tuition for international students?

International students cannot receive Federal aid. The packages are a combo of merit aid, campus low-pay jobs and private loans at interest rates that are much higher than the Treasury rate.
Signed, a former international student with financial aid at an Ivy.

Small but important clarification, it is not "merit aid." Ivies do not give merit, period; they only give need-based aid. You are referring to institutional grants, which also form the bulk of financial aid that universities give to domestic students. Sometimes colleges confusingly refer to these grants as scholarships, but they are not based on merit at Ivies.

The only "federal" aid types are Pell grants, which are small, and federal student loans, which are also small.

Anonymous wrote:I think America should close its doors for 4 years for everything. No more imports, no more foreigners. Try it out for 4 years and let’s see how quickly you become Mississippi….

Stop having common sense! It is not allowed here….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think America should close its doors for 4 years for everything. No more imports, no more foreigners. Try it out for 4 years and let’s see how quickly you become Mississippi….

The same Mississippi that has a higher GDP than the EU average and every country except Germany (which exceeds Mississippi by about €1,500?)

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/01/06/how-do-americas-poorest-states-compare-to-europes-largest-economies

If you are happy becoming Mississippi, by all means….keep going

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

I am for intl students being enrolled, but my kid is at a T20, and I am surprised that probably the 25 I have spoken to are all receiving aid. Zero told me they are full pay. I used to think as you do now.

International students at Harvard get the same financial aid as US citizens. I can’t find a number for Harvard, but USNWR says 40% of international students (from schools that report a #) are on financial aid, and I would assume that number would be higher for Harvard, since they are so much more generous with regard to aid in general.

What schools charge higher tuition for international students?

International students cannot receive Federal aid. The packages are a combo of merit aid, campus low-pay jobs and private loans at interest rates that are much higher than the Treasury rate.
Signed, a former international student with financial aid at an Ivy.