Current Grade: 2nd
NNAT: 160
CoGAT: 149
In Pool (Yes/No): Yes
iReady Math Percentile: 99 (522 for Spring)
iReady Reading Percentile: 99
HOPE (good/bad/etc, # of exceptional subjects): No idea
VALLS: Low risk for all, 700+ (don't feel like looking up the scores)

Pyramid: Westfields

In/not in: In

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top athletes are being "prepped" as well. By top, I mean the very best in any league in any sport in our area. They have parents who played D1, D2, or D3 and spend time with their kids perfecting the sport, working on them from a very young age. Some can even afford to get trainers for additional workouts....It's the same game, people. Just the sport happens to be academia. So stop complaining.

Prepping for an aptitude test makes the tests unreliable. When kids who are gifted are losing out on gifted education because other kids are being prepped, parents have the right to complain, just like you do.

HA! So then prepping for a tryout makes the tryout unreliable?? When kids that are athletic are losing out on spots at top teams in the DMV because John was prepared/conditioned to excel from an early age, how many parents' complain? NONE.

Because oh John is just "naturally talented".

Giftedness is a type of neurodivergence. There are supposed to be gifted education classes to meet the needs of gifted kids. FCPS essentially provides advanced classes, not gifted education support— in part because of all this prepping. Bless you if you do not need to understand the difference.

Oh, so you don't like the parallel between prepping for an academic test and prepping for sports? And therefore, you are making this about "giftedness" and what "FCPS provides." You have the choice of completely opting out of all tests if you do not like the format or offerings. But here you are, complaining on an AAP forum about the "advanced support" that kids receive because parents are "prepping" and how that's diluting the service offerings and keeping gifted kids from getting in.

My point is simple, its preparing to excel at something else. It isn't all that different. Namaste!

Prepping for sports versus prepping for a certain aptitude test are completely different. If you prep and train and practice for a sport you become better and continue to perform at a high level when on the team. If you prep for specific tests but your hope score/what you show in the class isn’t that great or iready scores aren’t 95%+ then you likely won’t be able to keep up with the faster paces of the class and all the writing that is involved. Sports prep to make a team and AAP prep to do well on cogat aren’t comparable

The assumption is that, as a parent, you will continue to support your child. In your point, a child with a high CoGAT score (because they were prepped) and low HOPE likely won't get into AAP. Even if they do get in somehow, that child may struggle to keep up with the fast-paced classes, as you mentioned. Consequently, the child suffers, and parents must decide whether to keep their child in AAP or move them to Gen Ed.

I "prep" my two kids who are both in AAP now. I will continue to offer support at home as I have been throughout these years. Excelling at anything requires discipline.

To generalize that all these kids are idiots who wouldn't make it in without parental prep is ignorant.

Anonymous wrote:So far I'm not seeing people report kids in the 80th percentile as accepted into AAP. All the prior posts are kids with generally high scores in the 90s.

This is 5 years old, but you can get a general idea of the scores for kids admitted to AAP in the Equity report document. https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BPLQKV69B096/$file/FCPS%20final%20report%2005.05.20.pdf
See page 66, which has stats for LIV eligible kids.

Also, no one is going to report on dcum that their kid with low test scores got admitted.

Anonymous wrote:love how 10. People posted the results because there's like 10 people on this stupid forum and now it's evolved into this prep versus no prep versus innate iq vs cheater debate.

It happened as a result of people coming on here... all in their feeling about how all these kids get in due to prep. Like STFU. Enough with that bs. You're a lazy parent. Do some self-reflection. Put some effort into your kids.

Before you come after those parents that get outside enrichment, pick up a CoGAT prep book off of Amazon. Nothing is that complicated in second grade. If you can't help your child navigate those problems, you are the problem. They aren't throwing calculus problems at them.

Anonymous wrote:So far I'm not seeing people report kids in the 80th percentile as accepted into AAP. All the prior posts are kids with generally high scores in the 90s.

Kids in lower SES schools get in with 80th percentile range. Their parents just don't have time sitting around and posting on DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I'm laughing at the idea that FCPS needs to guess which kids might have been prepped and misuse a teacher profile tool (HOPE) to keep them out of AAP.

Kids who are prepped have involved parents who value academics. They're going to be the ones in enrichment classes. If they struggle, the parents will get tutors. They can handle the program just fine.

Since AAP is at best a mildly accelerated program, it should be available for any kid who can handle it. That would include the kids with high scores on the CogAT or NNAT, prepped or otherwise. It would also include kids with high iready scores, whether or not they're in enrichment. And it should include the kids that the teachers think belong. There's no reason to restrict access.

Keep rationalizing your craziness!

Keep rationalizing your misuse of the HOPE scale. The NAGC documentation provided earlier in this thread and again here says:
"In other words, some students scored high on the achievement measure, but did not receive high teacher ratings on the HOPE Scale. Perhaps such students have negative behaviors, and they may be at risk of underachievement and not being placed in a program if the program requires high scores and teacher recommendations. We believe that their high scores on either measure should result in placement."
https://davis.agendaonline.net/public/Meeting/Attachments/DisplayAttachment.aspx?AttachmentID=238383&IsArchive=0

In the same paper, they advocate using HOPE for inclusion rather than exclusion, meaning HOPE should be used to lift kids into AAP who otherwise don't have the stats. It's not intended to keep kids out who do.

The HOPE scale was never designed to detect possible test preppers or exclude kids from receiving gifted services who otherwise seem to have the stats. It's purely a tool to lift kids into programs like AAP who show potential and who might have otherwise been overlooked.

So far I'm not seeing people report kids in the 80th percentile as accepted into AAP. All the prior posts are kids with generally high scores in the 90s.

Anonymous wrote:I'm laughing at all the anti-prep talk and children not being a good fit because they're not qualified.

AAP isn't hard. It's mildly more advanced than the general classroom. 50%+ of students could easily be comfortable with this level of education. While it's advertised as FCPS's state mandated G&T program, it doesn't serve the needs of those students, as it's truly a program designed to accommodate rich parents who want to brag their children are advanced.

If prepping gets your 20% FCPS percentile child into the 15% of those accepted, you're in good company with most of the kids in the program already.

You've gamed the (designed to be game-able) system and it's worked. You can continue to feel good about yourselves, while your child will do just fine.

This from a parent of a borderline kid who prepped and has no regrets. Blame the system and not the parents. If it was for the top 1-2%, no one would be having this discussion.

Kids who need tutoring to be in AAP should not be in AAP. Part of the reason the program has slowed down is because kids are being admitted who should be in the Gen Ed class because they don't need AAP. But the more parents apply for kids who are borderline and appeal to get their borderline kids in, the more slowly the class moves. It is why the program needs to be able to remove kids who are not able to handle the material.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm laughing at all the anti-prep talk and children not being a good fit because they're not qualified.

AAP isn't hard. It's mildly more advanced than the general classroom. 50%+ of students could easily be comfortable with this level of education. While it's advertised as FCPS's state mandated G&T program, it doesn't serve the needs of those students, as it's truly a program designed to accommodate rich parents who want to brag their children are advanced.

If prepping gets your 20% FCPS percentile child into the 15% of those accepted, you're in good company with most of the kids in the program already.

You've gamed the (designed to be game-able) system and it's worked. You can continue to feel good about yourselves, while your child will do just fine.

This from a parent of a borderline kid who prepped and has no regrets. Blame the system and not the parents. If it was for the top 1-2%, no one would be having this discussion.

Speaking from experience, clearly. Sorry, I don't think you represent the majority and you are the reason FCPS is going towards an increasingly 'holistic' process.

DP and FCPS has been talking about "wholistic" admissions since 2001 when I was at TJ and yet another admissions controversy there (they have been happening since the 1980s when TJ opened) erupted...again.

Wherever there are gifted program admissions there will be a discussion of making them wholistic. The two go together like PB & jelly.

Anonymous wrote:I actually prep my kid on cogat many times. I don't see significant improvements...very frustrated

Most people will tell you prepping can only twiddle around the edges of the score. It might help a nervous kid who shuts down if they don't immediately understand a question (which is per our favorite AAP-qualified 3rd grade teacher a very typical profile for an AAP kid), but it won't actually make your kid smarter. So it won't move the needle much.

Anonymous wrote:DP. I'm laughing at the idea that FCPS needs to guess which kids might have been prepped and misuse a teacher profile tool (HOPE) to keep them out of AAP.

Kids who are prepped have involved parents who value academics. They're going to be the ones in enrichment classes. If they struggle, the parents will get tutors. They can handle the program just fine.

Since AAP is at best a mildly accelerated program, it should be available for any kid who can handle it. That would include the kids with high scores on the CogAT or NNAT, prepped or otherwise. It would also include kids with high iready scores, whether or not they're in enrichment. And it should include the kids that the teachers think belong. There's no reason to restrict access.

Keep rationalizing your craziness!

Anonymous wrote:I'm laughing at all the anti-prep talk and children not being a good fit because they're not qualified.

AAP isn't hard. It's mildly more advanced than the general classroom. 50%+ of students could easily be comfortable with this level of education. While it's advertised as FCPS's state mandated G&T program, it doesn't serve the needs of those students, as it's truly a program designed to accommodate rich parents who want to brag their children are advanced.

If prepping gets your 20% FCPS percentile child into the 15% of those accepted, you're in good company with most of the kids in the program already.

You've gamed the (designed to be game-able) system and it's worked. You can continue to feel good about yourselves, while your child will do just fine.

This from a parent of a borderline kid who prepped and has no regrets. Blame the system and not the parents. If it was for the top 1-2%, no one would be having this discussion.

Speaking from experience, clearly. Sorry, I don't think you represent the majority and you are the reason FCPS is going towards an increasingly 'holistic' process.

DP. I'm laughing at the idea that FCPS needs to guess which kids might have been prepped and misuse a teacher profile tool (HOPE) to keep them out of AAP.

Kids who are prepped have involved parents who value academics. They're going to be the ones in enrichment classes. If they struggle, the parents will get tutors. They can handle the program just fine.

Since AAP is at best a mildly accelerated program, it should be available for any kid who can handle it. That would include the kids with high scores on the CogAT or NNAT, prepped or otherwise. It would also include kids with high iready scores, whether or not they're in enrichment. And it should include the kids that the teachers think belong. There's no reason to restrict access.

I'm laughing at all the anti-prep talk and children not being a good fit because they're not qualified.

AAP isn't hard. It's mildly more advanced than the general classroom. 50%+ of students could easily be comfortable with this level of education. While it's advertised as FCPS's state mandated G&T program, it doesn't serve the needs of those students, as it's truly a program designed to accommodate rich parents who want to brag their children are advanced.

If prepping gets your 20% FCPS percentile child into the 15% of those accepted, you're in good company with most of the kids in the program already.

You've gamed the (designed to be game-able) system and it's worked. You can continue to feel good about yourselves, while your child will do just fine.

This from a parent of a borderline kid who prepped and has no regrets. Blame the system and not the parents. If it was for the top 1-2%, no one would be having this discussion.

If FCPS maintains the local norms it will be able to maintian a program that allows more kids from Title 1 schools to be in-pool and screened for AAP. And while AAP is a nice to have for parents at UMC, it is essential fro kids at Title 1 schools.

Parents at UMC schools have options for supporting their childs academic growth. Most of us are willing to send our child to academic programs that are more engaging then school. A lot of families are sending their kids to language schools, which offer coding classes, math classes, science classes and the like. Parents are willing to take the time to work through the Beast Academy books or send their kid to Curie/RSM/Mathansium to solidify or advance their kids math progress. Parents look for academic based summer camps to enrich their kids. Realistically, if there was no AAP offered at the UMC ES, the peer group at the schools would lead to good opportunities for the kids.

Title 1 schools are in a very different place. So many kids are starting with no academic knowledge, kids not knowing their letters, number, sounds, colors, shapes that any kid who starts with what a lot of UMC families consider basic knowledge, are going to be ignored in K. Kids who are on grade level, never mind ahead, are ignored in every grade. AAP offers a place for the kids who are slightly advanced to be moved to a classroom where they are the focus of the class, which is a huge difference then what you see for AAP at UMC schools.

I hope they keep the local norms for this very reason. We deferred AAP in favor of language immersion for my kid. He stepped into AAP at his MS, which is a center but his base school, and he has not had any issues in his classes. His ES did not have local LIV but LI is a different cohort of kids that is probably closer to LIV then gen ed. We all know that many of the kids from MC/UMC HS will take AP/IB classes and do well in them, regardless of being in AAP or not. The same cannot be said for the Title 1 schools.