Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why anyone is still obsessed with rigid office culture and hours. As long as the work gets done, who GAF where it is done or what hours are worked?

Such boomer thinking.

My old company is building a new office in downtown for GenZ who want to come to office at set hours in person. They need to network, be mentored, trained, find people to date, go to happy hours, go out to lunch with friends, make friends at work. Stuff the old Milenials and Gen X got to do and now they want it.

First, nobody wants to date at work: ugh. GenZ have their own friends and social networks, they do not want to go to happy hours with Gen X coworkers (nor do middle aged people of any generation go to happy hour very much: they have kids waiting at home).
I agree that some things are lost with remote work, although people are using chat tools to regain some of the spontaneity. But what I've found is that even though my Gen Z coworkers will say it's hard to do this or that networking thing remotely, the fact is they like WFH too and don't want to give that up to regain the supposed benefits of in-person culture. You will see them come in for the holiday party but that's it.

Anonymous wrote:Gotta respect Trump’s and Musk’s master stroke at quickly shifting the public’s outrage from (a) big greedy businesses and monopoly power (which costs each taxpayer thousands per year), to (b) government employees and telework (which MAYBE costs each taxpayer $3 a year).

How quickly we forget the 2008 financial crisis, Enron, etc. WHEN another crisis happens, the public will again suddenly shift its anger back to big business. So stupid, random, and arbitrary.

Smoke and mirrors and slight of hand.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Trump has no idea that many of us were working from home long before Covid? And there is no office space for us now??

I am not union either OP...and I think we are most at risk. We will be back first and more. I think there will be many unplanned messy retirements with no transition time.

BS - There is plenty of office space for you. You just don't want to go into your cube or less than lux office. No one is forcing you to retire just because you are too lazy to work. Seems like you retired in place.

DP, but please catch up. The federal government significantly downsized its office footprint since 2020 (and was in the process of that even before COVID). Many of us have shared how we literally don’t have an office to go to, or are hotel-ing so we don’t have space to go 5 days per week. Also some people at my office have union contracts specifying their ADS must have a private office with door that closes because of the type of secure work they are doing. So they cannot just be stuck in a cube farm.

Also at large agencies you need a prospectus and then must solicit bids and then get Congressional approval to sign a new lease.

It’s clear so many of you on this thread have never worked for or with the government in any capacity, so no one really cares about the nonsense you’re pulling out of your @$$.

The “pack them in and have them sit in hallways” crowd has clearly never dealt with PII/PHI. And would absolutely lose their s**t if their own PII/PHI was being discussed on the phone with them or with a manager, judge or program leader in a “pack them in” environment, where 10 people who don’t need to know about their rape or herpes or abortion or ED or whatever could overhear all the intimate details— complete with spelling their name and the SSN to confirm identify or collaborate with a co-worker. Or, even worse IMO, the name and SSI of your kid who underwent a trauma like incest or severe abuse and now needs out program. My ADS contract says I can’t even have a “smart device” with Siri, Alexa or the like activated in my home office and that I have to be able to keep my computer screens and calls protected from everyone else in my home (office door that shuts and white noise machine in my case).

And yes, it usually other Feds with clearance who would overhear info. But, in a packed office, a lot of people overhear. And some of those people will gossip about “it’s messed up situation I overheard today”. That would be the water cooler talk you want so badly. In my office, because we deal with sensitive information, we cant have janitors come in at night when they could see things on desks or rifle through things. So, when I was in the office, janitorial staff did their work between 8 and 5, and had to do their work when there were people around. So, I was limited in what I could do when they were in my office. Add them to the list of people overhearing PII/PHI, SSNs and your STIs amd your 10 year olds abortion because rape baby.

The sheer number of things DOGE has not considered is mind blowing.

We gave up massive amounts of leased space. They don’t have the capacity to “pack them in,” let alone give me a private place for when I work with PII/PHI.

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Anonymous wrote:Saw this directly from Trump not doge https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-challenges-union-deal-remote-work-policies-federal-workers/#

I am not union so no lawsuits to drag out - just a remote employee with stellar performance. Besides looking for jobs in private sector what else can I do? Have been a remote employee since pre pandemic. You all have been sane in your commentary about doge but it seems that all hope is lost with it coming from Trump now. I really love my job and I’d move back if it wasn’t for my kids and schools.

Elon’s going to find out pretty quickly that sending people to Mars will be so much easier than sending them back to their desks.

Sending people to Mars is going to be quite the challenge when all the retirement-eligible people at NASA quit if they have to go in 5 days per week.

Why do we need NASA when we have SpaceX?

SpaceX and NASA aren’t competitors. NASA is an anchor client for SpaceX. Also, do you like things like weather satellites? That’s NASA. Want to pay a subscriber fee for hurricane warnings instead?

Weather satellites are actually DoD and NOAA. NASA usually runs climate satellites and of course space telescopes which everyone loves. I doubt SpaceX has any interest in astronomy or Plankton, Aerosol, Cloud, ocean Ecosystem type missions. NASA is about basic science and research; day to day is more domain of other agencies.

Perfect example of people knowing a little bit and thinking they are experts.
Yes, NOAA OPERATES the weather satellites. Guess who designs and builds them - that's right, NASA.

And as a PP said, without NASA SpaceX wouldn't have anyone to sell their products to. Nearly all of SpaceX launches are to support the US government.

It goes deeper in that NOAA operates the GOES weather satellites, but NASA oversees the design and manufacture. The actual build is contracted out to the likes of Lockheed Martin.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why anyone is still obsessed with rigid office culture and hours. As long as the work gets done, who GAF where it is done or what hours are worked?

Such boomer thinking.

My old company is building a new office in downtown for GenZ who want to come to office at set hours in person. They need to network, be mentored, trained, find people to date, go to happy hours, go out to lunch with friends, make friends at work. Stuff the old Milenials and Gen X got to do and now they want it.

Gotta respect Trump’s and Musk’s master stroke at quickly shifting the public’s outrage from (a) big greedy businesses and monopoly power (which costs each taxpayer thousands per year), to (b) government employees and telework (which MAYBE costs each taxpayer $3 a year).

How quickly we forget the 2008 financial crisis, Enron, etc. WHEN another crisis happens, the public will again suddenly shift its anger back to big business. So stupid, random, and arbitrary.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why anyone is still obsessed with rigid office culture and hours. As long as the work gets done, who GAF where it is done or what hours are worked?

Such boomer thinking.

It's because this is cover for layoffs. They are hoping for attrition. The people making these orders don't care about the work getting done - they have nothing but disdain for the federal workforce (or any workforce). They want to reduce the size of the federal workforce.

I don't know why anyone is still obsessed with rigid office culture and hours. As long as the work gets done, who GAF where it is done or what hours are worked?

Such boomer thinking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Saw this directly from Trump not doge https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-challenges-union-deal-remote-work-policies-federal-workers/#

I am not union so no lawsuits to drag out - just a remote employee with stellar performance. Besides looking for jobs in private sector what else can I do? Have been a remote employee since pre pandemic. You all have been sane in your commentary about doge but it seems that all hope is lost with it coming from Trump now. I really love my job and I’d move back if it wasn’t for my kids and schools.

Elon’s going to find out pretty quickly that sending people to Mars will be so much easier than sending them back to their desks.

Sending people to Mars is going to be quite the challenge when all the retirement-eligible people at NASA quit if they have to go in 5 days per week.

Why do we need NASA when we have SpaceX?

SpaceX and NASA aren’t competitors. NASA is an anchor client for SpaceX. Also, do you like things like weather satellites? That’s NASA. Want to pay a subscriber fee for hurricane warnings instead?

Weather satellites are actually DoD and NOAA. NASA usually runs climate satellites and of course space telescopes which everyone loves. I doubt SpaceX has any interest in astronomy or Plankton, Aerosol, Cloud, ocean Ecosystem type missions. NASA is about basic science and research; day to day is more domain of other agencies.

Perfect example of people knowing a little bit and thinking they are experts.
Yes, NOAA OPERATES the weather satellites. Guess who designs and builds them - that's right, NASA.

And as a PP said, without NASA SpaceX wouldn't have anyone to sell their products to. Nearly all of SpaceX launches are to support the US government.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is a govt work at home. Log on respond some emails, open word doc put coffee mug on key board so it types away nonsense, go get dressed come back push some more buttons.

Here is a worker at the office:

Logon, go get coffee. Stand around chatting with coworkers. Respond to a few emails. Take break to sign kids up for camp and to make doctor’s appointments. Login to meeting (virtual because not everyone is in the same locality). Take lunch break to go walk around or run errands. …

c’mon now, having a butt in a chair in office doesn’t mean you’re working harder than the person at home.

Or you could actually go to Sheetz to work a shift, sit behind the counter, and watch customers use the self check out computer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Trump has no idea that many of us were working from home long before Covid? And there is no office space for us now??

I am not union either OP...and I think we are most at risk. We will be back first and more. I think there will be many unplanned messy retirements with no transition time.

BS - There is plenty of office space for you. You just don't want to go into your cube or less than lux office. No one is forcing you to retire just because you are too lazy to work. Seems like you retired in place.

DP, but please catch up. The federal government significantly downsized its office footprint since 2020 (and was in the process of that even before COVID). Many of us have shared how we literally don’t have an office to go to, or are hotel-ing so we don’t have space to go 5 days per week. Also some people at my office have union contracts specifying their ADS must have a private office with door that closes because of the type of secure work they are doing. So they cannot just be stuck in a cube farm.

Also at large agencies you need a prospectus and then must solicit bids and then get Congressional approval to sign a new lease.

It’s clear so many of you on this thread have never worked for or with the government in any capacity, so no one really cares about the nonsense you’re pulling out of your @$$.

And I will add the reason large expensive leases require open bids and congressional approval is because somewhere along the way someone wanted more oversight of how money was being spent on office space. Yes it’s more inefficient to some extent, but your overlords at DOGE love some accountability and oversight right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Trump has no idea that many of us were working from home long before Covid? And there is no office space for us now??

I am not union either OP...and I think we are most at risk. We will be back first and more. I think there will be many unplanned messy retirements with no transition time.

BS - There is plenty of office space for you. You just don't want to go into your cube or less than lux office. No one is forcing you to retire just because you are too lazy to work. Seems like you retired in place.

this is just willful ignorance at this point. I am not surprised; that's the MAGA MO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Trump has no idea that many of us were working from home long before Covid? And there is no office space for us now??

I am not union either OP...and I think we are most at risk. We will be back first and more. I think there will be many unplanned messy retirements with no transition time.

BS - There is plenty of office space for you. You just don't want to go into your cube or less than lux office. No one is forcing you to retire just because you are too lazy to work. Seems like you retired in place.

DP, but please catch up. The federal government significantly downsized its office footprint since 2020 (and was in the process of that even before COVID). Many of us have shared how we literally don’t have an office to go to, or are hotel-ing so we don’t have space to go 5 days per week. Also some people at my office have union contracts specifying their ADS must have a private office with door that closes because of the type of secure work they are doing. So they cannot just be stuck in a cube farm.

Also at large agencies you need a prospectus and then must solicit bids and then get Congressional approval to sign a new lease.

It’s clear so many of you on this thread have never worked for or with the government in any capacity, so no one really cares about the nonsense you’re pulling out of your @$$.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming there is some period of time
Before these RTO orders actually go into effect, do you all plan to go in to the office before then? Knowing that politicals will view that more favorably? Or just wait until you’re actually required to be there every day?

Well I don’t have an office (even though I’m local to DC). I have a place where I can go to pick up a new badge or get my computer fixed. But I have to arrange for someone to let me in because I don’t have direct building access and then no one I work with would be there because they’re spread all over. So no I won’t be going into a place that doesn’t exist.

Right. Our building does not have enough space for everyone. Forget office space. There aren’t enough chairs or places to put desks, unless people work in conference rooms and not sure that will even be enough.

If everyone returns 5 days a week at my agency, we will be sitting on the floor in the halls.

Wow that's great, you will start collaborating and thinking outside the box.

Exactly - they can work on a office Christmas production since they are so dramatic!

Anonymous wrote:So Trump has no idea that many of us were working from home long before Covid? And there is no office space for us now??

I am not union either OP...and I think we are most at risk. We will be back first and more. I think there will be many unplanned messy retirements with no transition time.

BS - There is plenty of office space for you. You just don't want to go into your cube or less than lux office. No one is forcing you to retire just because you are too lazy to work. Seems like you retired in place.