There’s no such thing as a “swing voter.” There are people who don’t want to tell pollsters how they’re going to vote. But they definitely know even if they pretend they haven’t decided.

And then there are voters who sometimes stay home when they aren’t inspired and sometimes they go to the polls when they are. Or if they’re the type who always vote but they don’t like either candidate they may vote 3rd party or write-in.

But the idea that anyone is going to swing between Trump and Biden, or vice versa, is ludicrous. If your point is this hurts Biden’s ability to turn out the vote, or conversely helps Trump do so, say that. But don’t pretend there's some special group of voters of any significant number who actually can be won over or not. Minds are made up already. The question is will they actually vote.

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Newsom wouldn't win over any of the MAGA crowd but he wouldn't need to. Any rational swing voter would pick him over Trump and most swing voters are rational. Who would you pick between Trump and Newsom? If you say Trump, you'd say Trump against anyone. If you say Newsom, you are saying so for the same reasons most swing voters would say Newsom. Not rocket science for the sane people that will decide the election.

Then why does he trail Trump in the matchup polls? Consistently?

Seriously. The idea that all swing voters would want to import California chaos national is ludicrous.

Not all but yes, most swing voters would pick Newsom over Trump. Have you met Trump? Do you think most swing voters are complete idiots? There is no way Trump us beating a normal/average candidate. Newsom isn't very popular nationwide but he is competent and that's all swing voters are asking for.

Except that the polls aka data don’t show that.

There are no polls that suggest Americans prefer Trump over a competent opponent. Think about what you're saying. It's ridiculous.

Are you serious? Of course there are. Check out the polling aggregation sites and filter by candidate and view them yourself. For example, there are polls by Emerson, Fox, Data for Progress and more for candidates including Whitmer, Newsome etc.

I interpret pp's comment to mean that none of the D field is competent. That's the only way to make sense of it.

After researching, it seems that Biden can't be replaced if he doesn't step down. And Jill wont allow that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, DCUM is much better informed on policy and insider politics than the rest of the US.

It doesn't mean they put country over party. It doesn't mean they can't be massive hypocrites when they want to.

Because Biden leads a party whose values align with their own, a lot of posters wave away his decline. It's a grave mistake. It makes them no better than conservatives putting up with Trump because they want to further a conservative agenda.

We should get a new Dem candidate ASAP.

Says the party who put a man with diagnosed Alzheimer in the White House from 1980-1988 and then lionized him until Trump the rapey face rapist took his place as your cult leader. Goodbye Hypocrite. Biden has not been diagnosed with anything remotely close.

+1, and had an awful wife who decorated everything in that hideous red color and brought in astrologer to make his schedule.

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Anonymous wrote:Didn't change my mind any. Tonight Biden came out and gave a strong and lucid rebuke of the SCOTUS immunity decision and sounded more coherent than Trump any day of the week.

People said he had a cold during the debate. Seems to me that's all it was.

Listen if you prefer a man obviously suffering from dementia, then just say so. But let’s stop the attempted gaslighting. Haven’t we all had enough of that?! Biden is mentally and physically unfit for the president today much less for the next four years.

Unlike Biden, a man "suffering from obvious dementia" wouldn't be able to get the part right reading a speech off of a teleprompter and would get lost the minute he took his eyes off of the teleprompter.

That's not "gaslighting" - it's a fact. Just because you don't like hearing the inconvenient contradiction pointed out doesn't make it "gaslighting." Just because you want to post 35x a day about "Biden's dementia" and a lot of people don't buy it doesn't make it "gaslighting."

You could see his dementia in the debate. He would start off strong talking about abortion and then for some reason start talking about immigration. We all saw his ability wax and wane during the evening. Gaslighting is what the DNC and media were doing by suggesting videos showing Biden’s decline were cheap fakes and everything was fine and he is sharp as a tack.

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Newsom wouldn't win over any of the MAGA crowd but he wouldn't need to. Any rational swing voter would pick him over Trump and most swing voters are rational. Who would you pick between Trump and Newsom? If you say Trump, you'd say Trump against anyone. If you say Newsom, you are saying so for the same reasons most swing voters would say Newsom. Not rocket science for the sane people that will decide the election.

Then why does he trail Trump in the matchup polls? Consistently?

Seriously. The idea that all swing voters would want to import California chaos national is ludicrous.

Not all but yes, most swing voters would pick Newsom over Trump. Have you met Trump? Do you think most swing voters are complete idiots? There is no way Trump us beating a normal/average candidate. Newsom isn't very popular nationwide but he is competent and that's all swing voters are asking for.

Except that the polls aka data don’t show that.

There are no polls that suggest Americans prefer Trump over a competent opponent. Think about what you're saying. It's ridiculous.

Are you serious? Of course there are. Check out the polling aggregation sites and filter by candidate and view them yourself. For example, there are polls by Emerson, Fox, Data for Progress and more for candidates including Whitmer, Newsome etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't change my mind any. Tonight Biden came out and gave a strong and lucid rebuke of the SCOTUS immunity decision and sounded more coherent than Trump any day of the week.

People said he had a cold during the debate. Seems to me that's all it was.

Listen if you prefer a man obviously suffering from dementia, then just say so. But let’s stop the attempted gaslighting. Haven’t we all had enough of that?! Biden is mentally and physically unfit for the president today much less for the next four years.

Unlike Biden, a man "suffering from obvious dementia" wouldn't be able to get the part right reading a speech off of a teleprompter and would get lost the minute he took his eyes off of the teleprompter.

That's not "gaslighting" - it's a fact. Just because you don't like hearing the inconvenient contradiction pointed out doesn't make it "gaslighting." Just because you want to post 35x a day about "Biden's dementia" and a lot of people don't buy it doesn't make it "gaslighting."

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Newsom wouldn't win over any of the MAGA crowd but he wouldn't need to. Any rational swing voter would pick him over Trump and most swing voters are rational. Who would you pick between Trump and Newsom? If you say Trump, you'd say Trump against anyone. If you say Newsom, you are saying so for the same reasons most swing voters would say Newsom. Not rocket science for the sane people that will decide the election.

Then why does he trail Trump in the matchup polls? Consistently?

Seriously. The idea that all swing voters would want to import California chaos national is ludicrous.

Not all but yes, most swing voters would pick Newsom over Trump. Have you met Trump? Do you think most swing voters are complete idiots? There is no way Trump us beating a normal/average candidate. Newsom isn't very popular nationwide but he is competent and that's all swing voters are asking for.

Except that the polls aka data don’t show that.

There are no polls that suggest Americans prefer Trump over a competent opponent. Think about what you're saying. It's ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy the idea that spending money in an overseas engagement means the odds that troops will be involved later go down. It’s entanglement, its involvement. If not in your eyes than definitely to the combatant’s.

I see the Vietnam war has been forgotten. Dang, that was quick.

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Ugh. This is getting so tiresome. The relevant question isn’t whether Newsome would definitely beat Trump. It’s whether Newsome or anyone else MIGHT beat Trump. We know Biden will not.

Who in their right mind would choose Trump over a normal candidate? A small minority of swing voters would. The majority would pick the normal candidate. We already know the MAGA crowd is voting for Trump but he can't win without winning a majority of the swing voters in swing states. Get it?

Now show us poll data showing who can beat Trump. I’ll wait.

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Anonymous wrote:Voting for him, or whoever the dem nominee is, no matter what.

That's intelligent.

It is. Very. Biden will serve this country better than trump despite his age. That is the calculation for every voter. If you look at these two men and their administrations and choose trump, you are making a foolish choice.

Did you watch the debate? Trump stood there and spouted total nonsense for 90 minutes. He does not give a crap about this country.

Biden’s body is serving unknown persons to secretly make executive decisions through. He’s an increasingly ill puppet conduit for unelected puppet masters.

Let me introduce you to Leonard Leo…

Is he the new Norquist?

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Ugh. This is getting so tiresome. The relevant question isn’t whether Newsome would definitely beat Trump. It’s whether Newsome or anyone else MIGHT beat Trump. We know Biden will not.

Who in their right mind would choose Trump over a normal candidate? A small minority of swing voters would. The majority would pick the normal candidate. We already know the MAGA crowd is voting for Trump but he can't win without winning a majority of the swing voters in swing states. Get it?

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Anonymous wrote:Didn't change my mind any. Tonight Biden came out and gave a strong and lucid rebuke of the SCOTUS immunity decision and sounded more coherent than Trump any day of the week.

People said he had a cold during the debate. Seems to me that's all it was.

+1

+1 and weren’t we all a little slack jawed by the stupid lies Trump spewed ?

Yep, Trump delivered a gish gallop of complete BS. The man is completely delusional.

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Anonymous wrote:Voting for him, or whoever the dem nominee is, no matter what.

Baaaa baaa goes the sheep.

You should be demanding a better candidate, Instead of settling for “anybody but Trump” type.

They are falling back in line just like the DNC wanted them to, just in time for next big lie they can perpetuate.

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Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter if Biden had a cold during the debate. All that matters is how he came across. Nixon was sick during his televised debate with JFK, and probably because of it, lost the election (just barely though).

The average American voters have no understanding of Politics 101. Perception is everything; reality matters sometimes. Maybe Biden is fit to serve until 2029.. maybe not but the perception too many swing voters have is clear and they perceive him to be unfit as it is now. Hopefully they perceive Trump as equally unfit so that Biden still has a fighting chance. It sure would be great if Biden got the out of the way so we wouldn't have to worry about a loss to Trump in November.

Who else would you run that would cause you to "not have to worry about a loss to Trump in November?"

Which alternate Dem would definitely beat him?

Any current Dem governor under the age of 65 and many of our current Dems in congress. We don't need someone that can beat an Obama or a Reagan; just an average candidate is all we need to beat Trump. Too much is at stake to risk running a very unpopular 81 year old with questionable mental fitness. There are few people Trump can beat. Why run one of them? All this being said; I realize this decision. Is completely up to Biden. Let's hope he does the right thing.

So you think Gavin Newsom would definitely beat Trump? There is no doubt in your mind?

Most of the alternate Dem candidates you allude to either have no national brand or come with serious flaws. Not saying they couldn't win, but the idea that any of them would be some type of lock is wishful thinking.

Newsom wouldn't win over any of the MAGA crowd but he wouldn't need to. Any rational swing voter would pick him over Trump and most swing voters are rational. Who would you pick between Trump and Newsom? If you say Trump, you'd say Trump against anyone. If you say Newsom, you are saying so for the same reasons most swing voters would say Newsom. Not rocket science for the sane people that will decide the election.

Then why does he trail Trump in the matchup polls? Consistently?

Seriously. The idea that all swing voters would want to import California chaos national is ludicrous.

Not all but yes, most swing voters would pick Newsom over Trump. Have you met Trump? Do you think most swing voters are complete idiots? There is no way Trump us beating a normal/average candidate. Newsom isn't very popular nationwide but he is competent and that's all swing voters are asking for.

Except that the polls aka data don’t show that.