Anonymous wrote:Chief of School Support is not new, used to be admin services— Cintia Johnson’s position. Reorg moved things around and renamed positions. Funny to say COS has new responsibilities like it’s a bad thing?

New or additional responsibilities?
If additional, probably because there are so many more staff to oversee -- and also because COS now acts as buffer between Superintendent and everybody else. So I guess the question then becomes: what is the superintendent doing?

Musical chairs it all you want, Syphax has grown and there are a number of people there who nobody knows what they really do. HR could use more people; DEI could use far less; facilities and transportation could use more who actually know what they're doing or perhaps just the same number but only filled with people who know what they're doing.

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Anonymous wrote:Cutting the aquatics field trip will save almost no money. APS barely funds field trips. Mostly to planetarium, outdoor lab and pools. PTAs fundraise for Jamestown and the like.

Kids like pool week. No sense in cutting it. And APS is not going to fund something better.

Careful. I'm sure people would like to eliminate the Planetarium trips, too. Don't remind them!

How much does APS spend on the planetarium?

The planetarium nonprofit “The Friends” took over a lot of the spending during a previous round of budget cuts. There are many things APS used to fund that are now funded through donations and by volunteers. I guess it’s a trend all over the country. The expectations for government services are just much lower than in the olden days.

are you kidding? in the olden days, my school system sure as h*ll did not have its own auditorium or private forest.

IMO, the planetarium, the outdoor forest, and sending kids to TJHSST are the 3 things that stand out for APS. Both the planetarium and outdoor lab are unique to APS and EVERY student has access. TJHSST, I've gone back and forth on; but I've settled on it being a good thing. Maybe some costs can be reduced/recovered with scaled transportation fees or maybe Arlington TJ parents can expand carpooling; but participating in the program does not cost more per pupil than APS spends and provides a very unique opportunity that APS cannot provide.

Therefore, IMO, these 3 aspects of APS are worth the relatively minimal investments. The real luxury items are all the option programs and iPads for every student through 8th grade. These are the first things that should be looked at the very instant step one - eliminating the fluff at Syphax, eliminating all the paid vacation for Syphax employees, and reducing the Superintendent's benefit package (does that position still get a provided car???) - is done. Then get the County serious about coordinating ART routes and get all 6th - 12th graders off yellow school buses.

I agree with you that every kid doesn’t need an iPad, but I have never understood why people think option programs are so expensive. It’s not like kids in option programs would all move to private. APS would still have to pay for teachers, principals and buy textbooks etc if the schools became neighborhood schools.

1. Additional transportation. yes, many would be on buses anyway, but to the same schools and not buses collecting students from across the county.
2. Can't just hire any old teacher or re-allocate teachers from other schools. You need bilingual/Spanish-speaking teachers for immersion; Montessori requires specialized training; etc.
3. Montessori also requires more teachers - an additional teacher in every classroom.
4. Paying extra for additional/different materials and curriculum.
5. IB programs/schools require a fee to the IB Organization to be recognized as an IB school.
6. IB teachers also require specialized training.
7. Running multiple options is a collective expense.

Eliminating option programs isn't going to save huge amounts of money that people like to think it will.

1. Additional transportation. yes, many would be on buses anyway, but to the same schools and not buses collecting students from across the county.- So the difference is a little mileage and a little driver time. Not a lot of savings there. The busses to our neighborhood school are pretty full already.
2. Can't just hire any old teacher or re-allocate teachers from other schools. You need bilingual/Spanish-speaking teachers for immersion; Montessori requires specialized training; etc.- I can't speak to APS specifically, but IME schools generally seek bilingual teachers based on the population they are teaching. So if there is a large Spanish speaking population at a neighborhood school that school still tries to recruit bilingual teachers even though it isn't an immersion program. Besides, it is only a 5%-20% pay difference according to this website. https://www.ibo.org/become-an-ib-school/fees-and-services/fees-for-authorized-schools/ Again, not huge dollar amounts.
3. Montessori also requires more teachers - an additional teacher in every classroom.- I can't speak to Montessori as I have no experience with the program.
4. Paying extra for additional/different materials and curriculum.- Is there a significant difference in the cost of different curriculum? IME most major curriculum developers have moved to offering curriculum in multiple languages because there are so many ELL in this country AND also the increasing popularity of immersion programs. Is the cost of a textbook at ATS really that different from the cost of a textbook at Campbell vs. a neighborhood school?
5. IB programs/schools require a fee to the IB Organization to be recognized as an IB school.- $12K per year per school, according to this website. https://www.ibo.org/become-an-ib-school/fees-and-services/fees-for-authorized-schools/
6. IB teachers also require specialized training.- Wouldn't the teacher need the training before being hired by APS? So not an APS cost. Even if APS paid for the training, the cost is $618/credit hour.
7. Running multiple options is a collective expense.- I'm not sure what this means.

It means all the seemingly minor costs add up and eliminating those costs is one drop in the big bucket of cuts that isn't going to be filled with one big cut in one area.

Doesn't matter if there's a difference in costs for different curriculums - the point is having to pay for MORE curriculums (curricula).
Teachers, even IF they were specially trained before being hired by APS so they can teach IB, AP, whatever, still have to keep up with that specialized training -- in addition to the regular "trainings" and professional development APS requires.
ATS is the lowest-hanging-fruit example of why option programs need to be looked at and possibly eliminated or streamlined. Its curriculum is not any different than a neighborhood school and its expectations and discipline and whatever else can be incorporated into every neighborhood school "program."
Is it best to run two immersion schools funneling into one middle school and one even smaller high school program - or make one immersion K-8 or K-12 program - or only elementary immersion - or no immersion - or????

I'd cut swimming even if it had zero cost. I'd rather my kid spend time in class. It's super disruptive for so little benefit.

Cut Syphax, end 1:1 devices for K-3, end swimming field trips.

I have been happy with some of the recent elementary curriculum changes, which were really really needed. Lucy Caulkins was so awful. I'm so much happier with the new phonics and CKLA programs. My kid especially loves CKLA. It's been great for her writing and analytical thinking. Hopefully those stick around.

I wish they'd adopt an elementary math curriculum that allows advanced students to really stretch themselves. Currently my kid finishes early and ends up reading independently in math class instead of doing math. There needs to be more available for the advanced kids. How awesome would it be if APS found a classroom friendly version of something analogous to Beast Academy?

They do need to stop paying for awful evaluation software. Just have elementary kids take math tests on paper. Not everything needs to be on an iPad. There's a huge benefit to having the teacher be able to see the kid's work next to their solution. That's how math should be done.

Chief of School Support is not new, used to be admin services— Cintia Johnson’s position. Reorg moved things around and renamed positions. Funny to say COS has new responsibilities like it’s a bad thing?

Anonymous wrote:It’s absurd. Keep the things for our kids. Planetarium, swimming, tj access, outdoor lab. Cut early elementary tech and syphax. Done.

I hate TJ but I’m willing to give up that dumb fight for this!

I neglected to include the website I found the $618 number on. https://education.gmu.edu/ib-education/certificate

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Anonymous wrote:Cutting the aquatics field trip will save almost no money. APS barely funds field trips. Mostly to planetarium, outdoor lab and pools. PTAs fundraise for Jamestown and the like.

Kids like pool week. No sense in cutting it. And APS is not going to fund something better.

Careful. I'm sure people would like to eliminate the Planetarium trips, too. Don't remind them!

How much does APS spend on the planetarium?

The planetarium nonprofit “The Friends” took over a lot of the spending during a previous round of budget cuts. There are many things APS used to fund that are now funded through donations and by volunteers. I guess it’s a trend all over the country. The expectations for government services are just much lower than in the olden days.

are you kidding? in the olden days, my school system sure as h*ll did not have its own auditorium or private forest.

IMO, the planetarium, the outdoor forest, and sending kids to TJHSST are the 3 things that stand out for APS. Both the planetarium and outdoor lab are unique to APS and EVERY student has access. TJHSST, I've gone back and forth on; but I've settled on it being a good thing. Maybe some costs can be reduced/recovered with scaled transportation fees or maybe Arlington TJ parents can expand carpooling; but participating in the program does not cost more per pupil than APS spends and provides a very unique opportunity that APS cannot provide.

Therefore, IMO, these 3 aspects of APS are worth the relatively minimal investments. The real luxury items are all the option programs and iPads for every student through 8th grade. These are the first things that should be looked at the very instant step one - eliminating the fluff at Syphax, eliminating all the paid vacation for Syphax employees, and reducing the Superintendent's benefit package (does that position still get a provided car???) - is done. Then get the County serious about coordinating ART routes and get all 6th - 12th graders off yellow school buses.

I agree with you that every kid doesn’t need an iPad, but I have never understood why people think option programs are so expensive. It’s not like kids in option programs would all move to private. APS would still have to pay for teachers, principals and buy textbooks etc if the schools became neighborhood schools.

1. Additional transportation. yes, many would be on buses anyway, but to the same schools and not buses collecting students from across the county.
2. Can't just hire any old teacher or re-allocate teachers from other schools. You need bilingual/Spanish-speaking teachers for immersion; Montessori requires specialized training; etc.
3. Montessori also requires more teachers - an additional teacher in every classroom.
4. Paying extra for additional/different materials and curriculum.
5. IB programs/schools require a fee to the IB Organization to be recognized as an IB school.
6. IB teachers also require specialized training.
7. Running multiple options is a collective expense.

Eliminating option programs isn't going to save huge amounts of money that people like to think it will.

1. Additional transportation. yes, many would be on buses anyway, but to the same schools and not buses collecting students from across the county.- So the difference is a little mileage and a little driver time. Not a lot of savings there. The busses to our neighborhood school are pretty full already.
2. Can't just hire any old teacher or re-allocate teachers from other schools. You need bilingual/Spanish-speaking teachers for immersion; Montessori requires specialized training; etc.- I can't speak to APS specifically, but IME schools generally seek bilingual teachers based on the population they are teaching. So if there is a large Spanish speaking population at a neighborhood school that school still tries to recruit bilingual teachers even though it isn't an immersion program. Besides, it is only a 5%-20% pay difference according to this website. https://www.ibo.org/become-an-ib-school/fees-and-services/fees-for-authorized-schools/ Again, not huge dollar amounts.
3. Montessori also requires more teachers - an additional teacher in every classroom.- I can't speak to Montessori as I have no experience with the program.
4. Paying extra for additional/different materials and curriculum.- Is there a significant difference in the cost of different curriculum? IME most major curriculum developers have moved to offering curriculum in multiple languages because there are so many ELL in this country AND also the increasing popularity of immersion programs. Is the cost of a textbook at ATS really that different from the cost of a textbook at Campbell vs. a neighborhood school?
5. IB programs/schools require a fee to the IB Organization to be recognized as an IB school.- $12K per year per school, according to this website. https://www.ibo.org/become-an-ib-school/fees-and-services/fees-for-authorized-schools/
6. IB teachers also require specialized training.- Wouldn't the teacher need the training before being hired by APS? So not an APS cost. Even if APS paid for the training, the cost is $618/credit hour.
7. Running multiple options is a collective expense.- I'm not sure what this means.

Anonymous wrote:It’s absurd. Keep the things for our kids. Planetarium, swimming, tj access, outdoor lab. Cut early elementary tech and syphax. Done.

Wisest proposal I’ve seen

It’s absurd. Keep the things for our kids. Planetarium, swimming, tj access, outdoor lab. Cut early elementary tech and syphax. Done.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The superintendent's cabinet used to be the executive leadership team (ELT) and the ELT was more like 10-11 people. It's not a new layer.

It is a new layer, old ELT was assistant supt’s, and a couple of others. New cabinet added COO overseeing assistant superintendents for Finance, Facilities, Information Tech., and HR. New council. COS had more responsibility than it did under PE supt. Asst. Supt for T&L became chief of academics. Reorg creares chief of school support. And DEI was new under Cintia Johnson.

+1
Also, the creation of this "cabinet" distanced the superintendent from those previous leadership team people, removing him further from the people actually doing the work and the teachers and parents.

Have you been to his office? He's walled it off. You used to walk in and see his secretary's desk right outside his office. Now you walk into a hallway leading you past that area and his work area isn't even visible because of the new wall.

Anonymous wrote:The superintendent's cabinet used to be the executive leadership team (ELT) and the ELT was more like 10-11 people. It's not a new layer.

It is a new layer, old ELT was assistant supt’s, and a couple of others. New cabinet added COO overseeing assistant superintendents for Finance, Facilities, Information Tech., and HR. New council. COS had more responsibility than it did under PE supt. Asst. Supt for T&L became chief of academics. Reorg creares chief of school support. And DEI was new under Cintia Johnson.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Cutting the aquatics field trip will save almost no money. APS barely funds field trips. Mostly to planetarium, outdoor lab and pools. PTAs fundraise for Jamestown and the like.

Kids like pool week. No sense in cutting it. And APS is not going to fund something better.

Careful. I'm sure people would like to eliminate the Planetarium trips, too. Don't remind them!

How much does APS spend on the planetarium?

The planetarium nonprofit “The Friends” took over a lot of the spending during a previous round of budget cuts. There are many things APS used to fund that are now funded through donations and by volunteers. I guess it’s a trend all over the country. The expectations for government services are just much lower than in the olden days.

are you kidding? in the olden days, my school system sure as h*ll did not have its own auditorium or private forest.

IMO, the planetarium, the outdoor forest, and sending kids to TJHSST are the 3 things that stand out for APS. Both the planetarium and outdoor lab are unique to APS and EVERY student has access. TJHSST, I've gone back and forth on; but I've settled on it being a good thing. Maybe some costs can be reduced/recovered with scaled transportation fees or maybe Arlington TJ parents can expand carpooling; but participating in the program does not cost more per pupil than APS spends and provides a very unique opportunity that APS cannot provide.

Therefore, IMO, these 3 aspects of APS are worth the relatively minimal investments. The real luxury items are all the option programs and iPads for every student through 8th grade. These are the first things that should be looked at the very instant step one - eliminating the fluff at Syphax, eliminating all the paid vacation for Syphax employees, and reducing the Superintendent's benefit package (does that position still get a provided car???) - is done. Then get the County serious about coordinating ART routes and get all 6th - 12th graders off yellow school buses.

I agree with you that every kid doesn’t need an iPad, but I have never understood why people think option programs are so expensive. It’s not like kids in option programs would all move to private. APS would still have to pay for teachers, principals and buy textbooks etc if the schools became neighborhood schools.

1. Additional transportation. yes, many would be on buses anyway, but to the same schools and not buses collecting students from across the county.
2. Can't just hire any old teacher or re-allocate teachers from other schools. You need bilingual/Spanish-speaking teachers for immersion; Montessori requires specialized training; etc.
3. Montessori also requires more teachers - an additional teacher in every classroom.
4. Paying extra for additional/different materials and curriculum.
5. IB programs/schools require a fee to the IB Organization to be recognized as an IB school.
6. IB teachers also require specialized training.
7. Running multiple options is a collective expense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given how close to capacity our high schools are with no 4th building in sight maybe we should be asking to send more kids to TJ

Arlington Tech will be finished in a couple years and it will be roughly the size of Meridian HS in Falls Church (in terms of capacity). And in fact larger if you include the part time Career Center students bussed in from all the Arlington and the City of Falls Church high schools. So the capacity crunch will be solved at that time. And APS saved a ton of money from not having to build another pool, athletic stadium and fields, auditorium, etc.

???
Part time Career Center students are also part time at their high schools; so doesn't change enrollment.
We bus students from Falls Church schools to take classes at the CC???

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cutting the aquatics field trip will save almost no money. APS barely funds field trips. Mostly to planetarium, outdoor lab and pools. PTAs fundraise for Jamestown and the like.

Kids like pool week. No sense in cutting it. And APS is not going to fund something better.

Careful. I'm sure people would like to eliminate the Planetarium trips, too. Don't remind them!

How much does APS spend on the planetarium?

The planetarium nonprofit “The Friends” took over a lot of the spending during a previous round of budget cuts. There are many things APS used to fund that are now funded through donations and by volunteers. I guess it’s a trend all over the country. The expectations for government services are just much lower than in the olden days.

are you kidding? in the olden days, my school system sure as h*ll did not have its own auditorium or private forest.

IMO, the planetarium, the outdoor forest, and sending kids to TJHSST are the 3 things that stand out for APS. Both the planetarium and outdoor lab are unique to APS and EVERY student has access. TJHSST, I've gone back and forth on; but I've settled on it being a good thing. Maybe some costs can be reduced/recovered with scaled transportation fees or maybe Arlington TJ parents can expand carpooling; but participating in the program does not cost more per pupil than APS spends and provides a very unique opportunity that APS cannot provide.

Therefore, IMO, these 3 aspects of APS are worth the relatively minimal investments. The real luxury items are all the option programs and iPads for every student through 8th grade. These are the first things that should be looked at the very instant step one - eliminating the fluff at Syphax, eliminating all the paid vacation for Syphax employees, and reducing the Superintendent's benefit package (does that position still get a provided car???) - is done. Then get the County serious about coordinating ART routes and get all 6th - 12th graders off yellow school buses.

100% agree with you except for TJ but that is a completely small potatoes fight. The APS bloated bureaucracy at Syphax is the REAL problem—not just the ridiculous paid time off—but also the sheer # of them.

I posted above about how it’s my opinion that the bureaucrats then justify their existence with constant textbook/curriculum revisions, different testing metrics every five minutes, massive technology investments (iPads for all the students is such an enormous terrible waste), etc (I’m sure posters can think of other examples). Every single one of these things is actually terrible for the vast majority of students but you’ve paid somebody to find the best fourth grade writing curriculum and they’ve identified this amazing new program so here we go again. You hire and pay them and all of a sudden we have teachers constantly changing their teaching every minute.

Agree re the curriculum chases.

The superintendent's cabinet used to be the executive leadership team (ELT) and the ELT was more like 10-11 people. It's not a new layer.