All the fkwits on here who are twisting them themselves into pretzels trying to establish at what point a pregnant woman must be “sick enough” and close enough to death to justify “really” needing an abortion are disgusting. You are honestly complete pieces of dogsht.

Anonymous wrote:
Consulting a Texas ob-gyn would yield your answers. Apparently this woman has none of the symptoms you are listing.

The things you list occur as symptoms that indicate and supports a specific medical diagnosis. The diagnosis is the supported by the labs and vitals and degree of blood loss, etc. Each diagnosis can have some or all of the symptoms. Each symptom can have different degrees of severity. A medical doctor would know how severely the patient was affected by the symptoms that caused the patient to be diagnosed with a medical condition.

I didn’t have any input into the Texas law nor do I practice as an attorney or medical doctor in Texas. I assume you don’t either. You must have a reason to want to know these things for your personal knowledge, and you could reach out to medical and legal professionals in Texas.

I hope you are never in this position as this woman, or have a loved one go through this.

Rs have literally created a "death list", ie, when a baby can be aborted.

I never ever ever want to hear about ACA and death panels. EVER.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, every pregnancy has risks. So her pregnancy is not unusual in that regard.

Also, termination of a pregnancy has risks, and studies have shown termination of a pregnancy can cause issues with fertility.

It’s really a tragic situation being used in a political manner. I have seen lots of people in life threatening medical situations and this currently isn’t one of them. It could rapidly develop into a life threatening situation, and the mother would receive medical care in that case.

So you are admitting that you’d rather this woman and mother be actively dying before getting medical care?

Neither the mother or baby is actively dying. If either occurs, the doctors will provide medical care and save the mother’s life.

Complications can occur in pregnancy without the mother dying.

So the answer is yes, then? You’d rather she suffer severe complications possibly resulting in her death instead of receiving medical care now. Got it.

I get you are incapable of having a discussion without being intellectually dishonest.

She would not be receiving medical care now because doctors don’t abort babies in hospitals unless there are urgent or emergent medical issues. Doctors don’t consider abortion medical care unless someone’s life is in danger. Mom is ok and baby is not able to be “fixed” with a surgical procedure.

She can drive to NM and have an elective abortion.

Abortions occur in clinics and not hospitals because doctors don’t want to perform abortions unless the medical necessity is great. They use their skill and training to save lives.

why the heck does any women NEED to go out of state to get a medical procedure because some man in an authority position who is not a doctor told her she can't.

The women was in the ER 4x due to her pregnancy. FFS. If she waits too long, she may end up sterile.

Talk about " intellectually dishonest. " There's just no "intellect" there at all.

Ohio says hold my beer...A 33-year-old Ohio woman who was 22 weeks pregnant when she suffered the loss of her pregnancy is now being charged with abuse of a corpse, a fifth-degree felony.

Brittany Watts is experiencing right now is exactly what every person capable of pregnancy feared when Roe vs. Wade was overturned in 2022. In this strange, new world, a nonviable clump of cells has more legal rights than the grieving parents who suffered a medical emergency.

Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article282803013.html#storylink=cpy

Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article282803013.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

Consulting a Texas ob-gyn would yield your answers. Apparently this woman has none of the symptoms you are listing.

The things you list occur as symptoms that indicate and supports a specific medical diagnosis. The diagnosis is the supported by the labs and vitals and degree of blood loss, etc. Each diagnosis can have some or all of the symptoms. Each symptom can have different degrees of severity. A medical doctor would know how severely the patient was affected by the symptoms that caused the patient to be diagnosed with a medical condition.

I didn’t have any input into the Texas law nor do I practice as an attorney or medical doctor in Texas. I assume you don’t either. You must have a reason to want to know these things for your personal knowledge, and you could reach out to medical and legal professionals in Texas.

Truly fascinating that the same people always screeching about freedom and making government small enough to drown in a bathtub are the same people that are in favor of legislating the crap out of healthcare they don't agree with.

Probably because they’re not very bright but they’re big old hypocrites.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

Consulting a Texas ob-gyn would yield your answers. Apparently this woman has none of the symptoms you are listing.

The things you list occur as symptoms that indicate and supports a specific medical diagnosis. The diagnosis is the supported by the labs and vitals and degree of blood loss, etc. Each diagnosis can have some or all of the symptoms. Each symptom can have different degrees of severity. A medical doctor would know how severely the patient was affected by the symptoms that caused the patient to be diagnosed with a medical condition.

I didn’t have any input into the Texas law nor do I practice as an attorney or medical doctor in Texas. I assume you don’t either. You must have a reason to want to know these things for your personal knowledge, and you could reach out to medical and legal professionals in Texas.

Truly fascinating that the same people always screeching about freedom and making government small enough to drown in a bathtub are the same people that are in favor of legislating the crap out of healthcare they don't agree with.

Neither the mother or baby is actively dying. If either occurs, the doctors will provide medical care and save the mother’s life.

Complications can occur in pregnancy without the mother dying.

Even if a fetus is "actively dying" they cannot act as long as there is a heartbeat. This has come up in spontaneous abortions (aka miscarriages) where a fetal heartbeat is detected. As long as that's there, they cannot intervene.

"actively dying" is referred to by medical professionals (hospice providers generally refer to this as the last 3 or so days of life), most often when referring to people for whom medical intervention is certainly possible but generally futile (e.g. the very elderly who do not have a DNR or whose family overrules the DNR) although certainly in a previously healthy adult, especially a young adult, they are going to do everything they can to reverse that, and depending on what is going on medically there can be a possibility of survival and even recovery. But it is also the case that obstetric complications can go from concerning to catastrophic in a very short point of time.

The way some people talk about this reminds me of the opioid users who, I hear, rely on Narcan to pull them back from the brink after getting as close as they can to that brink. It can work, or not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

Consulting a Texas ob-gyn would yield your answers. Apparently this woman has none of the symptoms you are listing.

The things you list occur as symptoms that indicate and supports a specific medical diagnosis. The diagnosis is the supported by the labs and vitals and degree of blood loss, etc. Each diagnosis can have some or all of the symptoms. Each symptom can have different degrees of severity. A medical doctor would know how severely the patient was affected by the symptoms that caused the patient to be diagnosed with a medical condition.

I didn’t have any input into the Texas law nor do I practice as an attorney or medical doctor in Texas. I assume you don’t either. You must have a reason to want to know these things for your personal knowledge, and you could reach out to medical and legal professionals in Texas.

American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology:

"ACOG asserts that it is impossible to create an inclusive list of conditions that qualify as "medical emergencies." In addition, it is dangerous to attempt to create a finite list of conditions to guide the practice of clinicians attempting to navigate their state's abortion restrictions. Reasons this type of exhaustive list is neither feasible nor advisable include:
The practice of medicine is complex and requires individualization—it cannot be distilled down to a one-page document or list that is generalizable for every situation
No single patient's condition progresses at the same pace
A patient may experience a combination of medical conditions or symptoms that, together, become life-threatening
Pregnancy often exacerbates conditions or symptoms that are stable in nonpregnant individuals
There is no uniform set of signs or symptoms that constitute an "emergency"
Patients may be lucid and appear to be in stable condition but demonstrate deteriorating health
Any such list that does not center a clinician's ability to make and act upon appropriate medical judgments in each unique situation will almost certainly result in refusal and denial of care (e.g., when a physician determines a pregnant person's life or health is at risk, but their condition is not included on the list)
Clinicians must be able to act before a patient acutely decompensates when a medical complication occurs. ACOG asserts that doctors and other health care professionals must be able to intervene when they feel it is medically necessary and provide abortion care before a patient is critically ill. Hospitals and other medical institutions should not require meeting particular criteria (e.g., admission to the ICU or unstable vital signs) before allowing clinicians to proceed with abortion care.
Doctors and other health care professionals must be able to assess the unique patient and clinical situation in front of them and make reasonable, evidence-based decisions about when to intervene without fear of prosecution, loss of license, or fines."

https://www.acog.org/news/news-articles/2022/08/understanding-medical-emergency-exceptions-in-abortion-bans-restrictions

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does the state defined cutoffs for estimated blood loss level, hemoglobin level, vital signs, at which point an abortion is allowed to be performed for emergent reasons?

What if the state prosecutor thinks the hemoglobin level wasn't low enough? Is an abortion allowed to be performed if only one reading is outside of normal?

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/HS/htm/HS.171.htm

I am not your unpaid research assistant.

I didn't find the lab cutoffs requested but get back to me if I missed them. At what degree of blood loss, hemoglobin level and blood pressure can a doctor perform an abortion based on this document? If hemorrhage, what are the cutoff levels at which this is defined? If only blood pressure is low but hemoglobin is within normal limits, or vice versa, is a doctor allowed to proceed? They have to consult with the hospital lawyer and/or local attorney general first?

Consulting a Texas ob-gyn would yield your answers. Apparently this woman has none of the symptoms you are listing.

The things you list occur as symptoms that indicate and supports a specific medical diagnosis. The diagnosis is the supported by the labs and vitals and degree of blood loss, etc. Each diagnosis can have some or all of the symptoms. Each symptom can have different degrees of severity. A medical doctor would know how severely the patient was affected by the symptoms that caused the patient to be diagnosed with a medical condition.

I didn’t have any input into the Texas law nor do I practice as an attorney or medical doctor in Texas. I assume you don’t either. You must have a reason to want to know these things for your personal knowledge, and you could reach out to medical and legal professionals in Texas.

I literally work in healthcare so I'm all too familiar with how complicated healthcare decisions can be even when guidelines supposedly seem specific. I'm also very aware of how different providers may make different decisions in light of tons of nuance. Literally every day throughout the day. However, when it comes to abortion, now their licenses are on the line because they have to report the abortion while feeling comfortable enough to determine if their argument for abortion aligns with the local health dept, attorney general office, etc. and how conservative it is in reviewing abortion cases

Everything you just said essentially equates to "wait until sick enough" even when risk/outcome is known. The TX law limits a doctor's ability to make calls until risk has passed into an extreme level so that the physician feels comfortable enough that they won't be prosecuted. The cancer example is one such version of that. Waiting until a woman is in shock when it's known she is heading there is another.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, every pregnancy has risks. So her pregnancy is not unusual in that regard.

Also, termination of a pregnancy has risks, and studies have shown termination of a pregnancy can cause issues with fertility.

It’s really a tragic situation being used in a political manner. I have seen lots of people in life threatening medical situations and this currently isn’t one of them. It could rapidly develop into a life threatening situation, and the mother would receive medical care in that case.

So you are admitting that you’d rather this woman and mother be actively dying before getting medical care?

Neither the mother or baby is actively dying. If either occurs, the doctors will provide medical care and save the mother’s life.

Complications can occur in pregnancy without the mother dying.

So the answer is yes, then? You’d rather she suffer severe complications possibly resulting in her death instead of receiving medical care now. Got it.

I get you are incapable of having a discussion without being intellectually dishonest.

She would not be receiving medical care now because doctors don’t abort babies in hospitals unless there are urgent or emergent medical issues. Doctors don’t consider abortion medical care unless someone’s life is in danger. Mom is ok and baby is not able to be “fixed” with a surgical procedure.

She can drive to NM and have an elective abortion.

Abortions occur in clinics and not hospitals because doctors don’t want to perform abortions unless the medical necessity is great. They use their skill and training to save lives.

Complicated abortions where the mother’s life or health is in jeopardy absolutely occur at hospitals. And doctors do want to perform them when they’re necessary to save their patients. Including this woman’s doctor who has been to court with her.

It’s terrifying that this PP doesn’t understand that therepeutic abortions are medical care ..

It’s terrifying you don’t understand this patient isn’t entitled to a medical abortion under Texas law at this time.

Her ob-gyn will not perform a medical abortion because the patient doesn’t meet the criteria. The patient can get an abortion in NM, wait until the baby’s heart stops, or be legit diagnosed with a life threatening medical condition and receive a medical abortion in Texas.

I do understand that and most of the other PPs here do. What we don’t understand is why you or anyone else thinks that’s OK.

Waiting on a response for this.