You people have too much free time

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Anonymous wrote:I can accept every list being proposed on this thread with the exception of those that include Cornell

Cornell CS, Engineering, Business(Dyson) are very prestigious.
Hotel Management NO

all very good programs, and Cornell is a great school - but agree not the tippy top kids. Think T15 in US News is cutoff in my circle for prestige

WashU and Rice are better than Cornell?

yes

We’re talking prestige here. Rice is hardly a household name. Same with Washington U. Sorry.

Agree that WashU is a little mystifying. But Rice is very prestigious. However those kids tend not to go into investment banking or consulting, which are the most prestige driven industries. But for engineering or medical school and most other fields, there really aren't many schools that are better. Bur Rice is pretty small. It's in Texas. And they're not well represented in finance, so it flies below the radar in the popular imagination.

Also, agree with the poster that noted that most of the kids at the top 10 schools - with the exception of MIT - are legacies or rich or URMs or athletes. The real talent is going to t10-30 schools. And the public honors programs. Eventually, public perception will catch up. Harvard will always be Harvard. Stanford will always be Stanford. But I think eventually people will realize that the kids at Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan are the genuine smart ones.

If I were hiring, I'd be very suspect of a recent Harvard or Yale degree. They're useful because of connections, but I know I'm not getting the best and brightest.

No... just no. You think Notre Dame isn't full of legacies and donor admits? It's always been one of the least diverse top colleges. The smartest kids are still at Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, and Princeton. Sure there are some legacy and donor admits, but the regular kids who get in tend to be the best overall. After that, the next best kids tend to enroll at UPenn (especially Wharton), Duke, Yale, and Columbia (this might change with their scandal). Berkeley also sticks out as attracting some of the best talent in the country and also internationally. I will agree Rice gets incredibly strong students, but they're limited by enrolling ~40% of their class from Texas.

I don't think this is really true anymore. I'll give you Notre Dame though. We visited. It's not very diverse. I'm sure legacy admits are a big deal for them. Notre Dame is basically a cult. Very nice kids though.

Caltech is such a small and specialized school. It can't really be used to make any point at all. MIT does get the best and brightest however. They don't do legacy. They're no longer test optional. They don't have any problem admitting Asian Americans. Obviously, athletic recruits are not significant. No one is rooting for MIT football. MIT does their own thing.

But I don't think for a minute that Harvard and Stanford are getting the really talented kids. Maybe in the 90s, but their "institutional needs" are absolutely ridiculous these days. A smart, unhooked, suburban middle class student is not getting in.

Princeton is a little better. And, unlike Harvard, they've invested in their STEM programs. Yale is an absolute disaster. DEI central.

Columbia is a very cynical school. And the Core is not for everyone. Penn, of course, is very preprofessional and dominated by Wharton. And 18 year olds that want to be hedge fund managers tend to be douchebags.

Duke is better. They seem to be admitting students beyond their country club roots. Have heard good things.

I think the list of desirable, prestigious schools is changing. More southern. More publics. But I think the days of New England Ivys being the ultimate thing are done. Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rice, Duke, USC, Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA are where things are trending.

Replace Michigan with Emory and I agree to an extent

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top 25 privates. +UCLA and Berkeley.

Why UCLA specifically, if you’re excluding other top publics? Berkeley I get as a more unusual case.

I’m not pro or anti state school here, just curious.

The other publics have good academics but they're too easy to get into, especially instate students. I know students at Umich with 3.6s and 1200. But they were instate.

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Anonymous wrote:I can accept every list being proposed on this thread with the exception of those that include Cornell

Cornell CS, Engineering, Business(Dyson) are very prestigious.
Hotel Management NO

all very good programs, and Cornell is a great school - but agree not the tippy top kids. Think T15 in US News is cutoff in my circle for prestige

WashU and Rice are better than Cornell?

yes

We’re talking prestige here. Rice is hardly a household name. Same with Washington U. Sorry.

Agree that WashU is a little mystifying. But Rice is very prestigious. However those kids tend not to go into investment banking or consulting, which are the most prestige driven industries. But for engineering or medical school and most other fields, there really aren't many schools that are better. Bur Rice is pretty small. It's in Texas. And they're not well represented in finance, so it flies below the radar in the popular imagination.

Also, agree with the poster that noted that most of the kids at the top 10 schools - with the exception of MIT - are legacies or rich or URMs or athletes. The real talent is going to t10-30 schools. And the public honors programs. Eventually, public perception will catch up. Harvard will always be Harvard. Stanford will always be Stanford. But I think eventually people will realize that the kids at Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan are the genuine smart ones.

If I were hiring, I'd be very suspect of a recent Harvard or Yale degree. They're useful because of connections, but I know I'm not getting the best and brightest.

No... just no. You think Notre Dame isn't full of legacies and donor admits? It's always been one of the least diverse top colleges. The smartest kids are still at Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, and Princeton. Sure there are some legacy and donor admits, but the regular kids who get in tend to be the best overall. After that, the next best kids tend to enroll at UPenn (especially Wharton), Duke, Yale, and Columbia (this might change with their scandal). Berkeley also sticks out as attracting some of the best talent in the country and also internationally. I will agree Rice gets incredibly strong students, but they're limited by enrolling ~40% of their class from Texas.

40% of Stanford is from California.

Eh, Stanford is closer to 35% California, and California is 1.5x the population of Texas.

It's 40%. https://ucomm.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2023/03/CDS_2022-2023_v3.pdf

Where does it say 40%?

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Anonymous wrote:I can accept every list being proposed on this thread with the exception of those that include Cornell

Cornell CS, Engineering, Business(Dyson) are very prestigious.
Hotel Management NO

all very good programs, and Cornell is a great school - but agree not the tippy top kids. Think T15 in US News is cutoff in my circle for prestige

WashU and Rice are better than Cornell?

yes

We’re talking prestige here. Rice is hardly a household name. Same with Washington U. Sorry.

Agree that WashU is a little mystifying. But Rice is very prestigious. However those kids tend not to go into investment banking or consulting, which are the most prestige driven industries. But for engineering or medical school and most other fields, there really aren't many schools that are better. Bur Rice is pretty small. It's in Texas. And they're not well represented in finance, so it flies below the radar in the popular imagination.

Also, agree with the poster that noted that most of the kids at the top 10 schools - with the exception of MIT - are legacies or rich or URMs or athletes. The real talent is going to t10-30 schools. And the public honors programs. Eventually, public perception will catch up. Harvard will always be Harvard. Stanford will always be Stanford. But I think eventually people will realize that the kids at Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan are the genuine smart ones.

If I were hiring, I'd be very suspect of a recent Harvard or Yale degree. They're useful because of connections, but I know I'm not getting the best and brightest.

No... just no. You think Notre Dame isn't full of legacies and donor admits? It's always been one of the least diverse top colleges. The smartest kids are still at Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, and Princeton. Sure there are some legacy and donor admits, but the regular kids who get in tend to be the best overall. After that, the next best kids tend to enroll at UPenn (especially Wharton), Duke, Yale, and Columbia (this might change with their scandal). Berkeley also sticks out as attracting some of the best talent in the country and also internationally. I will agree Rice gets incredibly strong students, but they're limited by enrolling ~40% of their class from Texas.

40% of Stanford is from California.

Eh, Stanford is closer to 35% California, and California is 1.5x the population of Texas.

It's 40%. https://ucomm.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2023/03/CDS_2022-2023_v3.pdf

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can accept every list being proposed on this thread with the exception of those that include Cornell

Cornell CS, Engineering, Business(Dyson) are very prestigious.
Hotel Management NO

all very good programs, and Cornell is a great school - but agree not the tippy top kids. Think T15 in US News is cutoff in my circle for prestige

WashU and Rice are better than Cornell?

yes

We’re talking prestige here. Rice is hardly a household name. Same with Washington U. Sorry.

Agree that WashU is a little mystifying. But Rice is very prestigious. However those kids tend not to go into investment banking or consulting, which are the most prestige driven industries. But for engineering or medical school and most other fields, there really aren't many schools that are better. Bur Rice is pretty small. It's in Texas. And they're not well represented in finance, so it flies below the radar in the popular imagination.

Also, agree with the poster that noted that most of the kids at the top 10 schools - with the exception of MIT - are legacies or rich or URMs or athletes. The real talent is going to t10-30 schools. And the public honors programs. Eventually, public perception will catch up. Harvard will always be Harvard. Stanford will always be Stanford. But I think eventually people will realize that the kids at Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan are the genuine smart ones.

If I were hiring, I'd be very suspect of a recent Harvard or Yale degree. They're useful because of connections, but I know I'm not getting the best and brightest.

No... just no. You think Notre Dame isn't full of legacies and donor admits? It's always been one of the least diverse top colleges. The smartest kids are still at Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, and Princeton. Sure there are some legacy and donor admits, but the regular kids who get in tend to be the best overall. After that, the next best kids tend to enroll at UPenn (especially Wharton), Duke, Yale, and Columbia (this might change with their scandal). Berkeley also sticks out as attracting some of the best talent in the country and also internationally. I will agree Rice gets incredibly strong students, but they're limited by enrolling ~40% of their class from Texas.

40% of Stanford is from California.

Eh, Stanford is closer to 35% California, and California is 1.5x the population of Texas.

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Anonymous wrote:West Point
Annapolis
Nearly any of the other service academies

No offense but these folks have multiple talents to include athleticism, leadership and spatial, community service.

You are going to enter the last true meritocracy in America.

All of the others can be bought.

I’m sorry, but overall the kids at the service academies are academically blown out of the water by most kids at T10 schools. And many of those kids will just work out/participate in intramural or club sports on their own. People who are going to push the boundaries in math, science, etc. don’t enroll at service academies.

NP. Agree with the PP. The post didn’t specify best academic institution. It asked about most prestigious. The service academies are absolutely equally prestigious as many school mentioned due to requiring multiple talents and mental/physical fortitude far beyond other institutions. You can’t buy your way in and a perfect test score won’t help you either. You need to be a far more well rounded person than just a good test taker and starting a non profit.

+1 if the conversation is laser focused on "prestige" then West Point and Annapolis are up there.

You military boosters are hilarious. West Point and Annapolis are akin to Notre Dame in my eyes - culty and prestigious for a certain group of people (Catholics for Notre Dame, veterans for West Point/Annapolis). No one is taking West Point or Annapolis over a T10 unless they have a deep family military history or a weirdly strong desire to join the military. The kids who feel this way and who are smart enough to get into a T10 are likely in the single digits each year. Their 75th percentile test scores don't even reach the 25th percentile test scores at T10s.

I’m pro-Capitalism, but this discussion makes me want to dress up in one of those Antifa outfits & lay siege to a country club.

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Anonymous wrote:I can accept every list being proposed on this thread with the exception of those that include Cornell

Cornell CS, Engineering, Business(Dyson) are very prestigious.
Hotel Management NO

all very good programs, and Cornell is a great school - but agree not the tippy top kids. Think T15 in US News is cutoff in my circle for prestige

WashU and Rice are better than Cornell?

yes

We’re talking prestige here. Rice is hardly a household name. Same with Washington U. Sorry.

Agree that WashU is a little mystifying. But Rice is very prestigious. However those kids tend not to go into investment banking or consulting, which are the most prestige driven industries. But for engineering or medical school and most other fields, there really aren't many schools that are better. Bur Rice is pretty small. It's in Texas. And they're not well represented in finance, so it flies below the radar in the popular imagination.

Also, agree with the poster that noted that most of the kids at the top 10 schools - with the exception of MIT - are legacies or rich or URMs or athletes. The real talent is going to t10-30 schools. And the public honors programs. Eventually, public perception will catch up. Harvard will always be Harvard. Stanford will always be Stanford. But I think eventually people will realize that the kids at Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan are the genuine smart ones.

If I were hiring, I'd be very suspect of a recent Harvard or Yale degree. They're useful because of connections, but I know I'm not getting the best and brightest.

No... just no. You think Notre Dame isn't full of legacies and donor admits? It's always been one of the least diverse top colleges. The smartest kids are still at Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, and Princeton. Sure there are some legacy and donor admits, but the regular kids who get in tend to be the best overall. After that, the next best kids tend to enroll at UPenn (especially Wharton), Duke, Yale, and Columbia (this might change with their scandal). Berkeley also sticks out as attracting some of the best talent in the country and also internationally. I will agree Rice gets incredibly strong students, but they're limited by enrolling ~40% of their class from Texas.

40% of Stanford is from California.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:West Point
Annapolis
Nearly any of the other service academies

No offense but these folks have multiple talents to include athleticism, leadership and spatial, community service.

You are going to enter the last true meritocracy in America.

All of the others can be bought.

I’m sorry, but overall the kids at the service academies are academically blown out of the water by most kids at T10 schools. And many of those kids will just work out/participate in intramural or club sports on their own. People who are going to push the boundaries in math, science, etc. don’t enroll at service academies.

NP. Agree with the PP. The post didn’t specify best academic institution. It asked about most prestigious. The service academies are absolutely equally prestigious as many school mentioned due to requiring multiple talents and mental/physical fortitude far beyond other institutions. You can’t buy your way in and a perfect test score won’t help you either. You need to be a far more well rounded person than just a good test taker and starting a non profit.

+1 if the conversation is laser focused on "prestige" then West Point and Annapolis are up there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can accept every list being proposed on this thread with the exception of those that include Cornell

Cornell CS, Engineering, Business(Dyson) are very prestigious.
Hotel Management NO

all very good programs, and Cornell is a great school - but agree not the tippy top kids. Think T15 in US News is cutoff in my circle for prestige

WashU and Rice are better than Cornell?

yes

We’re talking prestige here. Rice is hardly a household name. Same with Washington U. Sorry.

Agree that WashU is a little mystifying. But Rice is very prestigious. However those kids tend not to go into investment banking or consulting, which are the most prestige driven industries. But for engineering or medical school and most other fields, there really aren't many schools that are better. Bur Rice is pretty small. It's in Texas. And they're not well represented in finance, so it flies below the radar in the popular imagination.

Also, agree with the poster that noted that most of the kids at the top 10 schools - with the exception of MIT - are legacies or rich or URMs or athletes. The real talent is going to t10-30 schools. And the public honors programs. Eventually, public perception will catch up. Harvard will always be Harvard. Stanford will always be Stanford. But I think eventually people will realize that the kids at Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan are the genuine smart ones.

If I were hiring, I'd be very suspect of a recent Harvard or Yale degree. They're useful because of connections, but I know I'm not getting the best and brightest.

No... just no. You think Notre Dame isn't full of legacies and donor admits? It's always been one of the least diverse top colleges. The smartest kids are still at Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, and Princeton. Sure there are some legacy and donor admits, but the regular kids who get in tend to be the best overall. After that, the next best kids tend to enroll at UPenn (especially Wharton), Duke, Yale, and Columbia (this might change with their scandal). Berkeley also sticks out as attracting some of the best talent in the country and also internationally. I will agree Rice gets incredibly strong students, but they're limited by enrolling ~40% of their class from Texas.

I don't think this is really true anymore. I'll give you Notre Dame though. We visited. It's not very diverse. I'm sure legacy admits are a big deal for them. Notre Dame is basically a cult. Very nice kids though.

Caltech is such a small and specialized school. It can't really be used to make any point at all. MIT does get the best and brightest however. They don't do legacy. They're no longer test optional. They don't have any problem admitting Asian Americans. Obviously, athletic recruits are not significant. No one is rooting for MIT football. MIT does their own thing.

But I don't think for a minute that Harvard and Stanford are getting the really talented kids. Maybe in the 90s, but their "institutional needs" are absolutely ridiculous these days. A smart, unhooked, suburban middle class student is not getting in.

Princeton is a little better. And, unlike Harvard, they've invested in their STEM programs. Yale is an absolute disaster. DEI central.

Columbia is a very cynical school. And the Core is not for everyone. Penn, of course, is very preprofessional and dominated by Wharton. And 18 year olds that want to be hedge fund managers tend to be douchebags.

Duke is better. They seem to be admitting students beyond their country club roots. Have heard good things.

I think the list of desirable, prestigious schools is changing. More southern. More publics. But I think the days of New England Ivys being the ultimate thing are done. Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Rice, Duke, USC, Michigan, Berkeley, UCLA are where things are trending.

Anonymous wrote:Top 25 privates. +UCLA and Berkeley.

Why UCLA specifically, if you’re excluding other top publics? Berkeley I get as a more unusual case.

I’m not pro or anti state school here, just curious.

Anonymous wrote:Top 25 privates. +UCLA and Berkeley.

Nice simple correct

Then next 25 are semi-elite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:West Point
Annapolis
Nearly any of the other service academies

No offense but these folks have multiple talents to include athleticism, leadership and spatial, community service.

You are going to enter the last true meritocracy in America.

All of the others can be bought.

I’m sorry, but overall the kids at the service academies are academically blown out of the water by most kids at T10 schools. And many of those kids will just work out/participate in intramural or club sports on their own. People who are going to push the boundaries in math, science, etc. don’t enroll at service academies.

NP. Agree with the PP. The post didn’t specify best academic institution. It asked about most prestigious. The service academies are absolutely equally prestigious as many school mentioned due to requiring multiple talents and mental/physical fortitude far beyond other institutions. You can’t buy your way in and a perfect test score won’t help you either. You need to be a far more well rounded person than just a good test taker and starting a non profit.

Duke, Indiana, Kansas, North Caroline, Kentucky, and UCLA