Anonymous wrote:Who do some parents think test scores should be the most important factor in admissions? People here state that some kids do heavy prep (tutors) or are enrolled in academic extracurriculars which can “inflate” scores. My child did 1 practice test at home. Some of the verbal section questions seem knowledge based rather than measuring purely aptitude. Thus skewing towards kids who prep or are UMC. We are UMC but DC couldn’t identify some of the items on the practice verbal section (picture of a microscope and vocabulary that seemed advanced for a 2nd grader like paleontologist, appliance). DC used process of elimination but that only got down to 2 choices. I didn’t think it fair to prep DC on vocabulary just for the test. DC tested high on quantitative and nonverbal but average on verbal on the CogAT similar to the practice test results. CogAT Cumulative score was 137 which was not in pool for our high SES school. DC got in to LIV.

To me, GBRS is a better reflection of the student than a test. 1st grade and 2nd grade teachers speak highly of DC’s motivation, work, and knowledge acquisition (quickly absorbs and comprehends new concepts). For example, DC took the initiative to write 10 chapters for an in-class book assignment when only 3 were required. I haven’t received the AAP submission packet so I can only assume GBRS was high. I don’t have a child in AAP yet but I assume a child who has a poor GBRS despite high test scores wouldn’t be disciplined or driven enough for AAP.

To be clear, I don’t think my child is “gifted.” Based on the acronym Advanced Academic Program, I assume AAP is meant to be accelerated curriculum and not a Gifted program. I also don’t believe being gifted is an indicator of success. I was identified as gifted as a child (high test results / IQ, was in gifted program in a different state) but am no more successful than my spouse who has a strong work ethic but was not identified gifted.

No one has ever said that having a high IQ is an indicator of success - it can be but it can also be a hindrance. Decades ago, gifted programs were created in schools to 1) foster bright kids and improve the country and 2) engage bright kids and keep them from going off the rails and/or underachieving. Those are still valid reasons today but it isn't in fashion to admit it.

^ “Why do some parents … ” not “who”

Who do some parents think test scores should be the most important factor in admissions? People here state that some kids do heavy prep (tutors) or are enrolled in academic extracurriculars which can “inflate” scores. My child did 1 practice test at home. Some of the verbal section questions seem knowledge based rather than measuring purely aptitude. Thus skewing towards kids who prep or are UMC. We are UMC but DC couldn’t identify some of the items on the practice verbal section (picture of a microscope and vocabulary that seemed advanced for a 2nd grader like paleontologist, appliance). DC used process of elimination but that only got down to 2 choices. I didn’t think it fair to prep DC on vocabulary just for the test. DC tested high on quantitative and nonverbal but average on verbal on the CogAT similar to the practice test results. CogAT Cumulative score was 137 which was not in pool for our high SES school. DC got in to LIV.

To me, GBRS is a better reflection of the student than a test. 1st grade and 2nd grade teachers speak highly of DC’s motivation, work, and knowledge acquisition (quickly absorbs and comprehends new concepts). For example, DC took the initiative to write 10 chapters for an in-class book assignment when only 3 were required. I haven’t received the AAP submission packet so I can only assume GBRS was high. I don’t have a child in AAP yet but I assume a child who has a poor GBRS despite high test scores wouldn’t be disciplined or driven enough for AAP.

To be clear, I don’t think my child is “gifted.” Based on the acronym Advanced Academic Program, I assume AAP is meant to be accelerated curriculum and not a Gifted program. I also don’t believe being gifted is an indicator of success. I was identified as gifted as a child (high test results / IQ, was in gifted program in a different state) but am no more successful than my spouse who has a strong work ethic but was not identified gifted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current grade: 2nd
NNAT/CoGAT: NNAT 149; CoGAT 138; (in pool)
GBRS (if known): 4 CQs
School or center: Mclean Pyramid
In/not in: Not In

My daughter was in pool and the scores are high. It is really puzzling to me why she didn't get in. She needs challenge at school otherwise she would totally be coasting! Can anyone advise appealing strategies?

I don't get it at all. Same exact stats as my (non-URM) child who got in (different pyramid though, but I don't think that should matter). Our AART's language was very supportive of DC getting in. Even though DC got in, reading this thread leaves me with little confidence in the process. I honestly think FCPS should either make this a much smaller, more elite program based only on test scores or parents should launch a class action suit (which would probably end the center program). This can't be what the state has in mind.

Isn't it kind of obvious that pyramids will matter? It's clearly more difficult to qualify in the Mclean pyramid than Mt. Vernon.

Last year they switched to in-pool being top 10% of the grade your school is in, so at some schools the cutoff to be in pool is over 140 while others are closer to 120. It used to be around 131-132 was the cutoff to be considered in pool.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current grade: 2nd
NNAT/CoGAT: NNAT 149; CoGAT 138; (in pool)
GBRS (if known): 4 CQs
School or center: Mclean Pyramid
In/not in: Not In

My daughter was in pool and the scores are high. It is really puzzling to me why she didn't get in. She needs challenge at school otherwise she would totally be coasting! Can anyone advise appealing strategies?

I don't get it at all. Same exact stats as my (non-URM) child who got in (different pyramid though, but I don't think that should matter). Our AART's language was very supportive of DC getting in. Even though DC got in, reading this thread leaves me with little confidence in the process. I honestly think FCPS should either make this a much smaller, more elite program based only on test scores or parents should launch a class action suit (which would probably end the center program). This can't be what the state has in mind.

Isn't it kind of obvious that pyramids will matter? It's clearly more difficult to qualify in the Mclean pyramid than Mt. Vernon.

This whole program seems very arbitrary. And probably weighted in the advantage of any child from a "squeaky wheel" home. Do 20% of FPS kids really qualify? That seems way higher than it should be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current grade: 2nd
NNAT/CoGAT: NNAT 149; CoGAT 138; (in pool)
GBRS (if known): 4 CQs
School or center: Mclean Pyramid
In/not in: Not In

My daughter was in pool and the scores are high. It is really puzzling to me why she didn't get in. She needs challenge at school otherwise she would totally be coasting! Can anyone advise appealing strategies?

I don't get it at all. Same exact stats as my (non-URM) child who got in (different pyramid though, but I don't think that should matter). Our AART's language was very supportive of DC getting in. Even though DC got in, reading this thread leaves me with little confidence in the process. I honestly think FCPS should either make this a much smaller, more elite program based only on test scores or parents should launch a class action suit (which would probably end the center program). This can't be what the state has in mind.

DP. You realize this talk of litigation is nuts, right? Bonkers?

Anonymous wrote:Current grade: 2nd
NNAT/CoGAT: NNAT 149; CoGAT 138; (in pool)
GBRS (if known): 4 CQs
School or center: Mclean Pyramid
In/not in: Not In

My daughter was in pool and the scores are high. It is really puzzling to me why she didn't get in. She needs challenge at school otherwise she would totally be coasting! Can anyone advise appealing strategies?

I don't get it at all. Same exact stats as my (non-URM) child who got in (different pyramid though, but I don't think that should matter). Our AART's language was very supportive of DC getting in. Even though DC got in, reading this thread leaves me with little confidence in the process. I honestly think FCPS should either make this a much smaller, more elite program based only on test scores or parents should launch a class action suit (which would probably end the center program). This can't be what the state has in mind.

Current grade: 2nd
NNAT/CoGAT: NNAT 149; CoGAT 138; (in pool)
GBRS (if known): 4 CQs
School or center: Mclean Pyramid
In/not in: Not In

My daughter was in pool and the scores are high. It is really puzzling to me why she didn't get in. She needs challenge at school otherwise she would totally be coasting! Can anyone advise appealing strategies?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What is a good GBRS score? Below are my DC creds.

2nd grade
NNAT - 133 (98th percentile)
COGAT- Composit 132(98th percentile), Non verbal 123, Quant 138, Verbal 119
GBRS - 4 FO
For Areas of strength - Math AND Reading marked Y, currently level 2 AAP
The teacher left very positive comments throughout the GBRS, with no behavioral issues
Iready - 86+ percentile for reading and Math
School - Westgate
Results - Not in.

Any feedback is appreciated. Are these mediocre stats? not good enough for AAP level 4?

DC is bummed


I've never commented on this forum before but am doing so now because your child's scores are very similar to my child (NNAT 132, COGAT 134, GBRS 4FOs) a few years ago when we were trying to decide whether to appeal. We were very on the fence about it, didn't think the chances were very good based on the info in this forum, and did not get a positive impression from the AART on our appeal prospects. We decided to try the appeal anyways (with a detailed parent referral letter and work samples, and no WISC), and my child got in on appeal. When we got in on appeal, I was worried my child may not be able to keep up since she "barely" got in, but has been doing really well in the program for three years. I highly recommend you appeal because you never know unless you try.

Thanks, this was very helpful and left me optimistic. Any tips on the parent letter?
If

My advice for the parent letter: use the GBRS categories as your guide and give specific examples of the ways your child has demonstrated those four categories, using the same language they use in those scales. If you can, tie in the additional work samples you submit into the letter. Don't say your child is bored in school and don't blame the teacher for the lower GBRS scores, but if you can explain why your child didn't demonstrate these traits in this year's class as much as she does at home or in other contexts (such as outside activities), that might help. Explain how and why your child needs AAP to thrive and succeed. I think the work samples we submitted were also an important part of the appeal. The year we appealed was a COVID year, so my child had several samples from online classes in creative and poetry writing and advanced math puzzles that we had signed her up for to pass the time. For each work sample, I included a short description of how the sample demonstrated one or more of the GBRS categories as a caption to the work sample.

Anonymous wrote:
What is a good GBRS score? Below are my DC creds.

2nd grade
NNAT - 133 (98th percentile)
COGAT- Composit 132(98th percentile), Non verbal 123, Quant 138, Verbal 119
GBRS - 4 FO
For Areas of strength - Math AND Reading marked Y, currently level 2 AAP
The teacher left very positive comments throughout the GBRS, with no behavioral issues
Iready - 86+ percentile for reading and Math
School - Westgate
Results - Not in.

Any feedback is appreciated. Are these mediocre stats? not good enough for AAP level 4?

DC is bummed


I've never commented on this forum before but am doing so now because your child's scores are very similar to my child (NNAT 132, COGAT 134, GBRS 4FOs) a few years ago when we were trying to decide whether to appeal. We were very on the fence about it, didn't think the chances were very good based on the info in this forum, and did not get a positive impression from the AART on our appeal prospects. We decided to try the appeal anyways (with a detailed parent referral letter and work samples, and no WISC), and my child got in on appeal. When we got in on appeal, I was worried my child may not be able to keep up since she "barely" got in, but has been doing really well in the program for three years. I highly recommend you appeal because you never know unless you try.

Thanks, this was very helpful and left me optimistic. Any tips on the parent letter?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why isn't a 145 WISC from FCPS's preferred facility, GMU, an auto-admit?

That is an excellent question. It definitely should be. Especially since AAP serves as the FCPS gifted program required by law. And a 145 on a WISC is definitely gifted.

At some point a parent will litigate. The state law requires that testing be part of the gifted identification process. If the test can be so easily disregarded, you can make an argument that the county is either not complying with the state law or with their own process that they had to submit to the state.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why isn't a 145 WISC from FCPS's preferred facility, GMU, an auto-admit?

That is an excellent question. It definitely should be. Especially since AAP serves as the FCPS gifted program required by law. And a 145 on a WISC is definitely gifted.

Scores don’t matter — You’re only gifted in FCPS if your teacher says so!

We appealed last year, the guy who tested her was absolutely shocked she hadn't gotten in. He said if anything her score was lower than it should be due to COVID precautions making kids a bit uneasy during the test.

Like others I was going to let the wisc score guide whether I would appeal. He said I definitely should. Her 2nd grade teachers didn't like her much, but I thought her teachers this year did... So I was hopeful that it would.

We parent referred this and last year, she is in Lvl 3 for 3 of the 4 main subjects, all her closest friends are in Lvl 4. Principal had initially told me he would principal place unless her teachers said no way, then said he couldn't as it wouldn't be fair to other children...

Anonymous wrote:Why isn't a 145 WISC from FCPS's preferred facility, GMU, an auto-admit?

Because there is no auto-admit. Are you new here?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why isn't a 145 WISC from FCPS's preferred facility, GMU, an auto-admit?

That is an excellent question. It definitely should be. Especially since AAP serves as the FCPS gifted program required by law. And a 145 on a WISC is definitely gifted.

Scores don’t matter — You’re only gifted in FCPS if your teacher says so!