Anonymous
02/21/2024 10:10
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:You're thinking about it all wrong. There are many more great schools, students, and professors than there were when we were kids. That's cause for celebration, not despair. It's only if you refuse to broaden your view to acknowledge that improvement beyond the traditional elites that things look grim. Adjust your thinking to fit reality for the sake of your own mental health--and especially for your kid's.
+1000
Look outside the T25 and your kid will have many excellent choices. Many of those will give excellent merit as well
But if you choose to only apply to Reach/High Reach schools, you will end up disappointed in most cases. Find the true targets and true safeties that your kid loves and you won't have many concerns.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 10:08
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.
Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.
It's not really that black and white.
It is that black and white, and should be. There are benefits to ED for both the student and the college, and those result in potential compromise for EVERY family who applies ED. That's the value exchange.
And furthermore, if it's not affordable at all, they are shut out altogether. The point is that the MONEY matters. A lot. Even if they are smart enough, capable enough, and ambitious enough to want a top school. You all come on here like is so super easy for everyone to just apply full pay at the top schools.
Stop strawman-ing, I never said that. Of course college is WAY too expensive. My point is that problem exists whether you apply ED or RD, so ED is available to you.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:57
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.
Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.
It's not really that black and white.
And furthermore, if it's not affordable at all, they are shut out altogether. The point is that the MONEY matters. A lot. Even if they are smart enough, capable enough, and ambitious enough to want a top school. You all come on here like is so super easy for everyone to just apply full pay at the top schools.
It isn't. And that should be acknowledged as a problem more widely in this country. Esp. when going to a low ranked school can keep you perpetually in the plebe class. Look at all the smug opinions of the various schools on this board . . . .
The thing is everyone is subject to the same financial aid formula. So you don't need to be full pay--you just need to save what is estimated to be reasonable based on your income/assets. And there is room for exacerbating expenses like medical expenses to be figured in. You may not like that number, but we're all subjected to the same financial assessment. ED doesn't require being full pay--it requires being able to pay what you are estimated to need based on a federal and sometimes also institutional formula. We're all expected to save some, cash flow some and borrow some.
And there's little evidence that going to a low-ranked school holds you back. Students that could get into a T20 school have similar outcomes if they go to even a much lower ranked school. On average the only real social mobility factor from college ranking is if you are low-income and go to a top school. Otherwise it really is the student not the school.
You are still making the point. "You just need to save." Oh, is that all?
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:53
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.
Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.
It's not really that black and white.
And furthermore, if it's not affordable at all, they are shut out altogether. The point is that the MONEY matters. A lot. Even if they are smart enough, capable enough, and ambitious enough to want a top school. You all come on here like is so super easy for everyone to just apply full pay at the top schools.
It isn't. And that should be acknowledged as a problem more widely in this country. Esp. when going to a low ranked school can keep you perpetually in the plebe class. Look at all the smug opinions of the various schools on this board . . . .
Whether or not you stay in the plebe class is entirely based on what you do after you enter the working world. Just look at the actual undergrad colleges of multi-millionaires, billionaires, basic 5%ers. Hint: most did not attend top undergrad schools.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:51
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.
Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.
It's not really that black and white.
And furthermore, if it's not affordable at all, they are shut out altogether. The point is that the MONEY matters. A lot. Even if they are smart enough, capable enough, and ambitious enough to want a top school. You all come on here like is so super easy for everyone to just apply full pay at the top schools.
It isn't. And that should be acknowledged as a problem more widely in this country. Esp. when going to a low ranked school can keep you perpetually in the plebe class. Look at all the smug opinions of the various schools on this board . . . .
The thing is everyone is subject to the same financial aid formula. So you don't need to be full pay--you just need to save what is estimated to be reasonable based on your income/assets. And there is room for exacerbating expenses like medical expenses to be figured in. You may not like that number, but we're all subjected to the same financial assessment. ED doesn't require being full pay--it requires being able to pay what you are estimated to need based on a federal and sometimes also institutional formula. We're all expected to save some, cash flow some and borrow some.
And there's little evidence that going to a low-ranked school holds you back. Students that could get into a T20 school have similar outcomes if they go to even a much lower ranked school. On average the only real social mobility factor from college ranking is if you are low-income and go to a top school. Otherwise it really is the student not the school.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:50
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
How can you apply ED to two different schools? I thought the point of ED is that it is for one school only?
You'll figure it all out when it is your turn: ED1, ED2, SCEA, REA, EA, RD, and then the WL "off yield" games, the alternate campus, alternate semester start, the first year abroad, etc. etc. etc. Oh, the games you will be forced to play.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:47
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have been lurking on this board and College Confidential since DC started freshman year in the fall and I am so shocked and sad for so many of what seem to be stellar students on paper getting deferred or even outright rejected from what used to be deemed "safety' schools. I know we're in a bit of a bubble in the DC area and it can be more competitive trying to get into certain schools from certain school systems (or at least that's what I'm told) but it seems to be especially bad this year? Do you think some of it is a result of COVID with '21 and '22 students taking gap years, and will normalize over time or do you think it will only get worse?
Parents say that every year.. this year is especially bad?? No its been like this
Agree. It's just when your own kid's situation starts to come into focus that it really hits home how different admissions are today and how many people need to reset their understanding of the range of great colleges.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:43
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.
Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.
It's not really that black and white.
And furthermore, if it's not affordable at all, they are shut out altogether. The point is that the MONEY matters. A lot. Even if they are smart enough, capable enough, and ambitious enough to want a top school. You all come on here like is so super easy for everyone to just apply full pay at the top schools.
It isn't. And that should be acknowledged as a problem more widely in this country. Esp. when going to a low ranked school can keep you perpetually in the plebe class. Look at all the smug opinions of the various schools on this board . . . .
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:41
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.
Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.
+1 The idea that people are shut out of ED because of finances is not accurate. You run the NPC calculator and see how much the school costs with estimated financial aid (and some do estimated merit aid based on kid's scores). If it's affordable, you ED. If they gave you FA that differs from the NPC, it is not binding. I do see people saying they want to see how merit awards play out among different schools, but that's desiring to spend less money and not having a strong preference for any school, not saying a favorite school isn't affordable. At this point, too, it's fairly apparent the size of merit awards offered to kids at a given school based on their stats.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:37
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
How can you apply ED to two different schools? I thought the point of ED is that it is for one school only?
At some schools, particularly small liberal arts colleges, there's ED1 and ED2. One is earlier, if you get denied/deferred from your ED1, you can apply ED2 to another. So people often do their ED1 to a reach and ED2 to a target.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:35
Subject: Re:All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Great point about many schools going TO. That said, I'm also seeing an incredible number of students with 1400+ SAT scores. I get that I need to not draw from my experience in the 90s when it was rare to hear of someone getting such high or near perfect scores but what is up with so many high scores these days? Has the scoring changed since I remember it? Or has the test itself gotten easier? Or maybe those are the only ones we hear about on here?
SAT scores have been "recentered" a couple of times since the 90s. Subtract about 150 points for the score equivalent back then.
It's not quite so easy as that--and there is some disagreement over point equivalencies. The tests have changed, a wider population takes them, and there are more preparatory materials available. It's more meaningful to focus on the percentile of a score than to think to the nominal rate.
Though TO is wrecking percentiles--making high scores and percentiles harder to get because weaker students opt out of the test altogether based on their PSAT score.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:35
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
How can you apply ED to two different schools? I thought the point of ED is that it is for one school only?
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:35
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Having just gone through this with my DC, I can only tell everyone fretting to tell their kid to spend a lot of time writing sincere and unique essays. The test score is a hurdle only; I was skeptical of this but I now believe it. Same with GPA. What matters is truly standing out. Another 20 points on the SAT or one more AP won't matter if you're over the bar; at that point it really is the uniqueness, sincerity, and writing of the kid. For parents tempted to interfere... I can only say that it will hurt. Let your kid write whatever crazy stuff they want. Remember, they're 17.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:30
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.
Have you run the NPC? If the college is not affordable, it is such whether ED or RD, so there is no reason you cannot apply ED if there is a clear first choice.
Anonymous
02/21/2024 09:28
Subject: All these rejections and deferrals reported on DCUM and CC are shocking and discouraging
Anonymous wrote:My 3.7/1300s (and submitted) kid did well. My feeling is that some people are overestimating their odds given the stats, AND not playing the ED game if they are in the fortunate position to do so. ED1 to a reach, fine. If it doesn’t work out and it’s a deferral, ED2 somewhere more reasonable for gods sake unless your kid is satisfied with a couple safeties they hopefully got into EA. Don’t hang around waiting on the ED1 deferral which is likely NOT to happen. Play the odds. Our kid wanted to wait out RD from the ED1, we and her counselor strongly advised ED2 to her 2nd choice, and she got in and was THRILLED. Just my two cents from our experience.
Love how you throw that in there. As you know, many people are shut out of this due to not being in a position to do so.