I don't think most people do try to "justify" it. They know it's wrong, but for whatever reasons they do it anyway. There are a lot of reasons that make sense and a lot that don't.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.

Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free

I can assure you they get laid for free.

Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?

Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.

They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.

Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.

Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.

No, using a sex worker is insane. You have a MUCH, MUCH higher chance of passing along a serious disease this way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did he ever say “I regret it” or just a whole lot of what he was thinking?

I don't know who you're asking, but probably the PP above me (I'm the second 10:09 poster).

It took my husband longer to get to regret. Unlike the post above mine, he didn't throw the OW under the bus immediately. He had vilified me and idealized their relationship in order to deal with his guilt. It explained why he had been acting like a tortured martyr for several months and complaining about every little thing ("you don't ask about my day enough" . . . yeah, maybe not compared to the OW who is desperate to land you full-time I don't).

But as soon as the cord was severed with the OW he began to realize it was all smoke and mirrors. He was obliviously exclaiming, "It's like we're on our second honeymoon! I don't even miss her!" like this would be a welcome thing to say to your betrayed wife.

Obviously he regretted it immediately, especially the part where he realized that he blew up a perfectly good marriage over some pretzel logic. He also isn't heartless and he felt bad for leading the OW on, though he didn't think he was at the time. Remorse came later, after he had developed deeper empathy and the emotional resilience to handle his shame.

PP- I wish we were friends IRL. I had the EXACT same experience down to my reaction and our conversations on DDay. Same affair too- solid enough marriage (also the you don't ask about my day thing), villianizing me, AP lived across the country, she had no self esteem and was obsessed with stalking me.

Oh my gosh, I'll be your affair survivor buddy.

The "you don't ask about my day" thing is sooooo silly. We'd been together 15 years, and I was taking care of preschool aged children all day . . . no, I didn't greet him with a martini and give him a back massage while asking about the highlights of his day. I just figured that extroverted him would tell introverted me if anything of note happened. But if you're comparing your wife to the OW who is hanging off your every word as she auditions for the role of wife, then yeah, the wife will appear disinterested by comparison. The bullshlt thing is having it be a comparison at all! "Forsaking all others . . . unless they ask me how my day went more often than you do, in which case all bets are off . . . "

Truly, you are speaking to my soul. How long has it been since you found out? Did you guys reconcile?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did he ever say “I regret it” or just a whole lot of what he was thinking?

I don't know who you're asking, but probably the PP above me (I'm the second 10:09 poster).

It took my husband longer to get to regret. Unlike the post above mine, he didn't throw the OW under the bus immediately. He had vilified me and idealized their relationship in order to deal with his guilt. It explained why he had been acting like a tortured martyr for several months and complaining about every little thing ("you don't ask about my day enough" . . . yeah, maybe not compared to the OW who is desperate to land you full-time I don't).

But as soon as the cord was severed with the OW he began to realize it was all smoke and mirrors. He was obliviously exclaiming, "It's like we're on our second honeymoon! I don't even miss her!" like this would be a welcome thing to say to your betrayed wife.

Obviously he regretted it immediately, especially the part where he realized that he blew up a perfectly good marriage over some pretzel logic. He also isn't heartless and he felt bad for leading the OW on, though he didn't think he was at the time. Remorse came later, after he had developed deeper empathy and the emotional resilience to handle his shame.

PP- I wish we were friends IRL. I had the EXACT same experience down to my reaction and our conversations on DDay. Same affair too- solid enough marriage (also the you don't ask about my day thing), villianizing me, AP lived across the country, she had no self esteem and was obsessed with stalking me.

Oh my gosh, I'll be your affair survivor buddy.

The "you don't ask about my day" thing is sooooo silly. We'd been together 15 years, and I was taking care of preschool aged children all day . . . no, I didn't greet him with a martini and give him a back massage while asking about the highlights of his day. I just figured that extroverted him would tell introverted me if anything of note happened. But if you're comparing your wife to the OW who is hanging off your every word as she auditions for the role of wife, then yeah, the wife will appear disinterested by comparison. The bullshlt thing is having it be a comparison at all! "Forsaking all others . . . unless they ask me how my day went more often than you do, in which case all bets are off . . . "

If you truly are curious - read The State of Affairs by Esther Perel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did he ever say “I regret it” or just a whole lot of what he was thinking?

I don't know who you're asking, but probably the PP above me (I'm the second 10:09 poster).

It took my husband longer to get to regret. Unlike the post above mine, he didn't throw the OW under the bus immediately. He had vilified me and idealized their relationship in order to deal with his guilt. It explained why he had been acting like a tortured martyr for several months and complaining about every little thing ("you don't ask about my day enough" . . . yeah, maybe not compared to the OW who is desperate to land you full-time I don't).

But as soon as the cord was severed with the OW he began to realize it was all smoke and mirrors. He was obliviously exclaiming, "It's like we're on our second honeymoon! I don't even miss her!" like this would be a welcome thing to say to your betrayed wife.

Obviously he regretted it immediately, especially the part where he realized that he blew up a perfectly good marriage over some pretzel logic. He also isn't heartless and he felt bad for leading the OW on, though he didn't think he was at the time. Remorse came later, after he had developed deeper empathy and the emotional resilience to handle his shame.

PP- I wish we were friends IRL. I had the EXACT same experience down to my reaction and our conversations on DDay. Same affair too- solid enough marriage (also the you don't ask about my day thing), villianizing me, AP lived across the country, she had no self esteem and was obsessed with stalking me.

Anonymous wrote:Did he ever say “I regret it” or just a whole lot of what he was thinking?

I don't know who you're asking, but probably the PP above me (I'm the second 10:09 poster).

It took my husband longer to get to regret. Unlike the post above mine, he didn't throw the OW under the bus immediately. He had vilified me and idealized their relationship in order to deal with his guilt. It explained why he had been acting like a tortured martyr for several months and complaining about every little thing ("you don't ask about my day enough" . . . yeah, maybe not compared to the OW who is desperate to land you full-time I don't).

But as soon as the cord was severed with the OW he began to realize it was all smoke and mirrors. He was obliviously exclaiming, "It's like we're on our second honeymoon! I don't even miss her!" like this would be a welcome thing to say to your betrayed wife.

Obviously he regretted it immediately, especially the part where he realized that he blew up a perfectly good marriage over some pretzel logic. He also isn't heartless and he felt bad for leading the OW on, though he didn't think he was at the time. Remorse came later, after he had developed deeper empathy and the emotional resilience to handle his shame.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.

Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free

I can assure you they get laid for free.

Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?

Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.

They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.

A “professional” is also very likely to be a trafficked human.

Super ethical.

Did he ever say “I regret it” or just a whole lot of what he was thinking?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s always about $. My ex had an AP that thought she was going to be taken care of. She didn’t work and her husband wasn’t a high earner. She saw out lifestyle and thought it was her ticket to the good life. Joke was on her when she blew up her marriage only after finding out all the $ came from me. And, then when it was out in the open he didn’t want to be with her anyway. Last I heard was she had to get some minimum wage service job.

I was a long term AP and did not care about or want his $. I loved him. Would have been fine with him giving his wife everything (which IMO she deserved under the circumstances) and starting over in whatever situation that meant. Probably moving to a LOCL area like a college town. I work and do okay enough for myself & whatever he could make before aging out would have been a bonus. They had a great life that she deserved to keep. Except that her DH was an incorrigible cheater.

Why would you want to live this way? I just don't get it.

I love how she thinks she is so kind and benevolent towards the wife😅 letting her keep HER OWN things/$ while she moves with the husband to a college town. Talk about strings. Man, what a fantasy world she created in her mind. And she admits the guy was an “incorrigible cheater”. It goes to show how all these ow harbor ill-will and want to end marriages. Though this one thinks she’s not so bad because instead of wishing death or a terminal illness on the wife she lets her keep everything while she rides off into the sunset with her husband. Such an active imagination. And, the wife has no idea she is a starring character or that ow even exists. It’s creepy AF.

Some real whack jobs.

Yeah, I'm the BW who mentioned my husband expecting me to compete with the OW like a chimp. That's what's really effed up about these situations. When you read OW forums, they write about the BW more than they write about the MM. The relationship is exciting because it's a triangle. But as someone who didn't realize I was in a triangle, my reaction was just WTF. I didn't get married to compete for my own spouse. If you don't think I'm the bee's knees then feel free to go be with this super special person who thought a secret, extremely part-time relationship with you was worth her time.

And I understand that just on a human level, it's probably hard to imagine what it's like to have low self-esteem when I had a healthy upbringing and I haven't struggled in that area. I guess I could see how "Oh wow, he thinks I'm so hot that he'll cheat on HER with me" could give you a boost. I mean, it's a boost based on taking someone's right to consent away from her, so that should make someone think twice. But I can understand that some people think, this secret relationship with this guy is the best I can get.

We actually had this conversation on DDay when I was thinking out loud. I literally said, "I don't get it. Why would a single woman who lives really far away WANT a secret relationship with you?" And my husband kind of grimaced and then said, "Well, she has really low self-esteem. She's a string of bad boyfriends." So then I said, "OK, so I still don't get it. Why would YOU want to have a secret relationship with someone with really low self-esteem?"

For the record, the affair betrayal was a horrible trauma. But I'm glad that I got some good zingers in on DDay, and I didn't compete with the OW. No thank you. I know what I deserve.

I actually have a running list of things my DH has said that shed light into his little self justifications. He's working on this in therapy because he will say til he's blue in the face that it was wrong, there's no justification for his actions, he has not blame shifted at all, but then these little tidbits sneak out and I know these are things he was telling himself to be able to live with himself:

-I never intended to hurt you.

-I never thought OW was better than you in any way

-I never talked to her about our marriage or family

-Everything I said to her was a lie. I didn't mean any of it- it was like a pretend escape world.

-95% of the lying I did to you was lies of omission. 99% of the lies I said to her were lies of commission. I tried to never deliberately lie to you and didn't care or feel guilty at all about lying to her.

-I never once considered a future with her. We would make a horrible couple in the real world

-Every choice I made with you about our family during the affair was real and intentional. I never stopped loving you or wanting to continue building our marriage and family.

Shouldn’t have married a creep then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s always about $. My ex had an AP that thought she was going to be taken care of. She didn’t work and her husband wasn’t a high earner. She saw out lifestyle and thought it was her ticket to the good life. Joke was on her when she blew up her marriage only after finding out all the $ came from me. And, then when it was out in the open he didn’t want to be with her anyway. Last I heard was she had to get some minimum wage service job.

I was a long term AP and did not care about or want his $. I loved him. Would have been fine with him giving his wife everything (which IMO she deserved under the circumstances) and starting over in whatever situation that meant. Probably moving to a LOCL area like a college town. I work and do okay enough for myself & whatever he could make before aging out would have been a bonus. They had a great life that she deserved to keep. Except that her DH was an incorrigible cheater.

Why would you want to live this way? I just don't get it.

I love how she thinks she is so kind and benevolent towards the wife😅 letting her keep HER OWN things/$ while she moves with the husband to a college town. Talk about strings. Man, what a fantasy world she created in her mind. And she admits the guy was an “incorrigible cheater”. It goes to show how all these ow harbor ill-will and want to end marriages. Though this one thinks she’s not so bad because instead of wishing death or a terminal illness on the wife she lets her keep everything while she rides off into the sunset with her husband. Such an active imagination. And, the wife has no idea she is a starring character or that ow even exists. It’s creepy AF.

Some real whack jobs.

I found that the most unsettling- that some woman was fixated on me like that and scouring the internet (and his phone when ex left it around) to find info about me for years that I didn’t know she existed. Someone praying for you to fail or harm to come to you, just an obstacle they need to remove. It’s like you had an arrow on your back or some psycho beatch was out there putting pins in a voodoo doll. Someone blowing negative energy your way and dissecting you with her girlfriends. Creepy AF, indeed. And I was so pissed, as a person that values privacy, that my kids and I were potentially exposed to a bunny burner and some crazy beatch knew anything about my kids and me.

This is how I feel too. It REALLY creeps me out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.

Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free

I can assure you they get laid for free.

Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?

Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.

They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.

Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.

Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.

I hope he lives in that fear for the rest of his life.

And her too! (someone tells her spouse)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ABC cared because their employees and America cared. I mean if you don’t care what others think just keep doing you without trying to justify lying and sneaking around. I mean if you don’t care, why are you hiding in the shadows? Is it because whoever you are banging doesn’t want anyone to see you? Are you that hideous? I mean, why not just tell the guy’s wife? It doesn’t matter right? Or are you afraid to do that because he will dump you and call you a psycho? I guess I don’t understand people that can’t find D that is available.

Its often about the lifestyle and money, as PP noted. My exH AP was his direct subordinate at work, dependent on him with her salary, consulting contracts and so on. It happens more often than you think: married men don't get laid for free

I can assure you they get laid for free.

Then why do so many men pay for sex? Paying to be able to leave, as the comedy joke says?

Yes. They want someone who won’t cause problems or have emotional entanglements. Many men see this as more ethical than an affair.

They're also less likely to get caught. A professional is much more likely to keep her mouth shut and not have any contact with your social or work circle.

Honestly I agree with this perspective. Much better a pro than a love affair.

Agree. But the men that don't want to pay (because it ain't cheap) and don't want spouse to find out--settle for a married woman thinking she has too much to lose to tell. But--that is where it gets messy. They are looking for exit affairs and think it means more, then he has to lie to keep it going--kick the can down the road. Then-they wish they had just paid in the first place as it gets way too complicated to easily get out of. The fear of her getting mad and telling the wife.

I hope he lives in that fear for the rest of his life.