No plane noise in AU Park!

So essentially, jets push particles directly into you, especially children, and you are taking a much larger than previously thought risk by living under a flight path. That includes the Palisades, Foxhall and parts of Kent. Also, MD/VA. There are plenty of areas not like this, including, gasp, EOTP. If people behaved with full knowledge and rationally, the desirable neighborhoods would move eastwards over time (especially WOTP)

I will also note how words anger, crazy, abnormal are used only by one side of this argument. Quite frankly that’s what motivated me to jump into the fray.

There is no anger. I can’t speak for others on this thread, but I posted the UWA study because there is a huge gap in understanding of the risks. It’s not fair on the people to do their own research when these are so little known. It’s also not fair to gaslight. So, I’m happy to share the research rather than invest in treatment years down the line when my field can do little to help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s worsened significantly and the health studies came out; plus new generations are not as keen on things that could kill them

It worsened significantly in 2015 and prices kept going up. There was no meaningful change in noise since then except the first months of the pandemic when planes were just not flying.

I can’t imagine anyone wealthy buying there in 10 years time if nothing changes. I wouldn’t now.

Non-wealthy people also need a place to live.. Let people do their own research and figure out the trade-offs for themselves. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here with your angry shouting.

Apparently linked to the prostrate cancer too

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s worsened significantly and the health studies came out; plus new generations are not as keen on things that could kill them

It worsened significantly in 2015 and prices kept going up. There was no meaningful change in noise since then except the first months of the pandemic when planes were just not flying.

I can’t imagine anyone wealthy buying there in 10 years time if nothing changes. I wouldn’t now.

Ultrafine particles are less than 100 nanometers in diameter — one one-thousandth the width of a human hair — and their impact on health is only beginning to be studied. Ultrafines aren’t specifically regulated by any state or federal air quality standards.

A higher proportion of the ultrafine particles (UFPs) in jet emissions are so small they can penetrate the central nervous system when inhaled, the report said.

Communities under flight paths, like SeaTac, Des Moines, Highline, Angle Lake, Beacon Hill and Rainier Valley, are exposed to those “ultra-ultrafines” when planes take off and land, researchers found.

The UW study adds to a growing international body of research on the particles, including some preliminary reports showing correlations between exposure to ultrafines and higher incidences of some kinds of cancer, as well as lung diseases that cause trouble breathing and deep, throaty coughs.

“Strong and consistent evidence from animal studies indicates that long-term exposure to UFPs is related to negative effects on the brain, nervous and respiratory system,” the state Department of Health concluded in a separate review of research on ultrafine particles released this month, funded by the Port of Seattle.

Generally, Austin said, ultrafine particles tend to agglomerate as they travel through the air — they stick together and become larger particles, which aren’t able to pass from the airways into the bloodstream. That’s typically what happens near busy roads.

But the super-small particles emitted by airplanes are forced directly downward by air currents and wing vortexes so rapidly that they haven’t agglomerated by the time they reach the ground, her team found.

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s worsened significantly and the health studies came out; plus new generations are not as keen on things that could kill them

It worsened significantly in 2015 and prices kept going up. There was no meaningful change in noise since then except the first months of the pandemic when planes were just not flying.

That’s where the science would say you are *dead* wrong. This is all carefully worded but shows why under a flight path is way worse — in layman terms these are pushed down into you and you stand no chance

Their analysis showed that roadway air pollution particles consist of relatively larger particle sizes and higher black carbon concentrations. These particles tend to disperse over relatively short distances downwind of major roadways such as Interstate 5 and SR 99, affecting a narrow swath of near-roadway residences and buildings.

In contrast, emissions associated with aircraft consist of the relatively smaller ultra-ultrafine particle sizes and lower black carbon concentrations. Areas exposed to higher levels of aircraft-related particles tend to be larger, meaning more people are potentially affected.

There is a relatively rapid downward transport of these aircraft-emitted UFPs and relatively little time for their physical aging due to coagulation with larger particles. This downward transport is due to a combination of large-scale daytime, convective velocities of up to one meter per second and local scale wingtip vortices that can extend vertically downward for several hundred meters at similar, superimposed velocities.47 This results in plumes from descending aircraft reaching ground level in approximately a few minutes near the airport and up to 15 to 20 minutes at 15 km downwind from the airport.
At these plume transport times, 10 to 20 nm UFPs emitted by jet engines have a characteristic coagulation half-life of about an hour, assuming that they are emitted into a background aerosol with a number concentration of 1x104 particles per cubic centimeter and count mean diameter of 0.2 μm.48 It is not surprising that the typical size of these UFPs in the downwind footprint are typically between 10 and 30 nm, indicating minimal coagulation losses.

The model results are similar to the spatial pattern of the Ultra-UF PCA feature derived from mobile monitoring measurements. The air quality model results and the map of Ultra-UF from mobile monitoring both suggest that communities underneath and downwind of landing aircraft may be exposed to this source of air pollution.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who are bothered by plane noise seriously bother me. Especially being that far out.

I walk/run by DCA several days a week - it's about 1.5 mile from my home on paths, and considerably shorter if you draw a direct line. It's white noise. And you physically FEEL takeoff and landing sometimes.

Not a big deal, but a tradeoff for living in the neighborhood we choose to live in.

If you're that abnormally sensitive, move elsewhere and don't complain about not having an airport you can get to easily.

This PP seems a bit too defensive. I actually work for a major airline, and I still hate the sound of airplane noise.

In about 15 years, we can expect quieter aircraft, as Boeing and Airbus have those in the plans. (Granted, electric airplanes are less likely.)

You are right. This is the first of these threads that took off; probably because the adverse effects and the terribleness of the situation are wholly undeniable!
Otherwise they just try to shame people into not dragging their real estate $ down by mocking it and others (calling them crazy, abnormally sensitive) but then can’t stop complaining on the private listserv.

Real estate $ won’t save anyone from a near certain disease. Estimate is 70% increase in cardiovascular alone. The only positive from a recent study was that
people go deaf sooner and then the effects lessen a bit. It’s the kids that will have the worst effects later in life from the ultrafines pushed by jets into lungs, brain etc. (not an exaggeration, directly from UWA, German, NJ studies).

Reminds me of Spring Valley people doing the same. We figured ok, but we’ll test the “cleaned” soil. I could have killed people with a pool me of the heavy metals from a spoonful of that yard.

No, thanks

Planes flying a few thousand feet over your head are not meaningfully contaminating the air in your neighborhood. The exhaust/fumes/etc. would be dispersed by the wind and spread out into the atmosphere before they make it down to the ground.

Because it’s worsened significantly and the health studies came out; plus new generations are not as keen on things that could kill them

Anonymous wrote:I love it how there’s a ton of plane noise bellyaching on the Palisades/Foxhall neighborhood listserve about just how unbearable and unsolvable it’s become. Yet, say something here, and it’s the one crazy lady complaining (why is it always a “lady” and “crazy”?!)

People are rightly pushed to the brink with the constant noise and pollution concerns. Real estate is likely to get depressed too. But they’ll deny deny deny on dcum. Funnily no one of the listserv is saying this is crazy and to have a drink and enjoy (real world advice from
a realtor who sold their Palisades house to unsuspecting buyers…)

Why would real estate get depressed now? the plane noise is not new

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I honestly don't even know if all these planes are DCA traffic or Dulles that fly over NOVA suburbs.

If you're close in they're absolutely all DCA and IAD.

Get the free app, flightradar24, and you'll see that flight paths for DCA are incredibly simple. Not all that complex for IAD.

Sometimes you'll see planes circling close to DCA but this is rare, way less than 1% of arrivals. It must be when the timing is off for runway usage and they need to readjust to prevent a near incursion.

I spend too much time on the app...but it's better than spending too much time on DCUM! Maps are cool.

I live in West Springfield where I can see/hear the southern departures/arrivals out of/into of DCA (~9,000-11,000 ft), see some of the southern arrivals into IAD, see some more distant departures/arrivals out of/into BWI (~16,000-19,000 ft), and see planes passing overhead (~34,000-40,000 ft) heading southwest. I love Flightradar 24! It's fun to know where the planes you're watching come from.

As for noise, I hear the DCA planes, but so does a wide swath of Alexandria, Springfield, Burke, Annandale and Fairfax.

PP here. I live in Mt Vernon and can definitely see BWI arrivals but they're almost silent for me. I can also see Andrews AFB arrivals but they are more rare, of course.

On clear days I've seen planes heading to Philly and New York. Like you, I've seen planes heading FROM NYC to NC, Atlanta, Florida, etc.

Last Thursday evening was very clear and from my kid's soccer field I could make out planes flying ATL to Europe. So cool!!

Anonymous wrote:

I honestly don't even know if all these planes are DCA traffic or Dulles that fly over NOVA suburbs.

If you're close in they're absolutely all DCA and IAD.

Get the free app, flightradar24, and you'll see that flight paths for DCA are incredibly simple. Not all that complex for IAD.

Sometimes you'll see planes circling close to DCA but this is rare, way less than 1% of arrivals. It must be when the timing is off for runway usage and they need to readjust to prevent a near incursion.

I spend too much time on the app...but it's better than spending too much time on DCUM! Maps are cool.

I live in West Springfield where I can see/hear the southern departures/arrivals out of/into of DCA (~9,000-11,000 ft), see some of the southern arrivals into IAD, see some more distant departures/arrivals out of/into BWI (~16,000-19,000 ft), and see planes passing overhead (~34,000-40,000 ft) heading southwest. I love Flightradar 24! It's fun to know where the planes you're watching come from.

As for noise, I hear the DCA planes, but so does a wide swath of Alexandria, Springfield, Burke, Annandale and Fairfax.