Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

People are only willing to die for so many reasons:
- they are forced
- they are paid
- they are fanatics and support their leader/cause

No non-Mormons died for Mormonism because no one forced or paid them.

I think you left out a whole lot of good reasons why people are willing to die. For example, I wouldn't call US soldiers fanatics, or suggest that they are only in it for the money. You don't have to be a "fanatic" to be willing to die for a cause.

A solid # of people enter the military for the money and/or college tuition.

Or an intense sense of “duty”. Some are certainly fanatics.

Merry Christmas to everyone. I'll take a break from these two threads out of respect for the holiday. (nevermind of course how many mythological deities from the mid-east were also born on Dec. 25th. Quite the coincidence, eh?).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

People are only willing to die for so many reasons:
- they are forced
- they are paid
- they are fanatics and support their leader/cause

No non-Mormons died for Mormonism because no one forced or paid them.

I think you left out a whole lot of good reasons why people are willing to die. For example, I wouldn't call US soldiers fanatics, or suggest that they are only in it for the money. You don't have to be a "fanatic" to be willing to die for a cause.

very true how many died because Bush and Cheney got some wild hair up their ass about Saddam Hussein?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

People are only willing to die for so many reasons:
- they are forced
- they are paid
- they are fanatics and support their leader/cause

No non-Mormons died for Mormonism because no one forced or paid them.

I think you left out a whole lot of good reasons why people are willing to die. For example, I wouldn't call US soldiers fanatics, or suggest that they are only in it for the money. You don't have to be a "fanatic" to be willing to die for a cause.

There is no convincing evidence that Jesus as a historical person - one whose life closely resembled that of the Biblical Jesus - ever existed at all. Which doesn't mean he didn't, just that there is no evidence of it. However, for most scholars who study early Christianity, it just isn't relevant at all if he existed or not, anymore than say, if you are studying a people who believe the world rests on a giant turtle, it is relevant or not if the turtle exists. The study of religion is the study of belief, and people have never needed actual evidence to believe in religious mythology. They did it fine before Christianity, and do it fine without Christianity in other parts of the world. Christianity is not an exception - the one religion where the stories are actually true - unless you are Christian. Anyone who studies religion from the point of view of a member of the religion is no longer engaged in an objective academic study of that religion, although there is plenty of fine scholarship of that sort from within the academic world of Christian theology. But don't confuse that with scholars proving Christ existed - it's scholars who believe he existed arguing various issues surrounding the internal workings of the religion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

A lot of those crusaders were mercenaries just looking for plunder and booty.

Some were mercenaries and some were religious (the Byzantine emperor sent a plea to Rome for help during the Muslim invasion) and some were not religious. But even the mercenaries were Christian not pagan/animist.

What does a thousand year old conflict have to do with today's religion

First, the comment about the crusades was in response to the pp. who asked why someone would die from someone else's beliefs.
Second, how is it still relevant? It reminds me that both Christianity and Islam were, to some considerable extent, imposed on people at the point of a sword.

sorry, that should have been die "for" someone else's beliefs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

A lot of those crusaders were mercenaries just looking for plunder and booty.

Some were mercenaries and some were religious (the Byzantine emperor sent a plea to Rome for help during the Muslim invasion) and some were not religious. But even the mercenaries were Christian not pagan/animist.

What does a thousand year old conflict have to do with today's religion

First, the comment about the crusades was in response to the pp. who asked why someone would die from someone else's beliefs.
Second, how is it still relevant? It reminds me that both Christianity and Islam were, to some considerable extent, imposed on people at the point of a sword.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

A lot of those crusaders were mercenaries just looking for plunder and booty.

Some were mercenaries and some were religious (the Byzantine emperor sent a plea to Rome for help during the Muslim invasion) and some were not religious. But even the mercenaries were Christian not pagan/animist.

What does a thousand year old conflict have to do with today's religion

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

A lot of those crusaders were mercenaries just looking for plunder and booty.

Some were mercenaries and some were religious (the Byzantine emperor sent a plea to Rome for help during the Muslim invasion) and some were not religious. But even the mercenaries were Christian not pagan/animist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

People are only willing to die for so many reasons:
- they are forced
- they are paid
- they are fanatics and support their leader/cause

No non-Mormons died for Mormonism because no one forced or paid them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

A lot of those crusaders were mercenaries just looking for plunder and booty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

Read up on the Council of Clermont and dispensations for participating in the crusades. If people were pagans, they wouldn’t have cared about getting dispensations. The whole Protestant reformation was partly about this.

Honestly pp, history is real and mythology had real characteristics. Not sure where you’re getting this stuff, but it’s an unreliable source.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fun.

Attis led a cult of self-castration. Attis’ birth story involves a father who had male and female organs, so the Olympian gods cut off dad’s male organ and threw it away. From it grew an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana, a daughter of the river-god Sangarius, picked an almond and laid it in her bosom. The almond disappeared, and she became pregnant. Nana abandoned the baby (Attis).[7] The infant was tended by a he-goat. No stars etc….

Who exactly wrote pp’s graphic? Because it’s riddled with misrepresentations.

Attis was a vegetation god so he was gone every winter (not 3 days) and came back every year (not just once) in the spring.

This is really amusing. Thanks for spreading the holiday cheer every year, Groundhog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion

You’re doing to need to give a cite for that. People were very, very religious between 1000-1400 AD, and it wasn’t paganism, lol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can verify that Joseph Smith was a real person.

Don’t even need “faith” to believe that.

Good point. Smith came along in the 19th century in the US when we have written records and photography. He is definitely real.

Still, many non-mormons think their beliefs are crazy (different layers of heaven, etc) and would never die for them, though many Mormons have died or killed for their faith.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

Why would people die for someone else’s beliefs?

? Ever hear of the Crusades

Weren’t those their own beliefs? They were Christians…

Read up more on history
Religion was very different 1000 years ago. No, the crusades were not because of religious conviction. People were more pagan with political power held by Rome, Vatican
It had very little to do with religion