Exactly. "A rock from the dirty ground" is a silly way to describe a diamond. They are pretty and sparkly. They look beautiful on your finger and symbolize the enduring commitment of marriage. It is true that the value of a diamond is a social construct, but the value of almost everything is a social construct. Unless you are demanding something significantly out of his price range or that will significantly derail other financial plans (buying a home) I think you should be able to come to some kind of compromise. Not being able to compromise on this would be a red flag.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends upon the reason.

Rings were made up as an emblem in order to sell diamonds by the De Beers Consolidated Mines to make money. I don't put much stock in a ring that was invented as part of a marketing plan to sell more diamonds, yet others do.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/02/how-an-ad-campaign-invented-the-diamond-engagement-ring/385376/

PS: The idea that a rock from the dirty ground worn on my finger means anything is awfully strange. The fact the size of a rock can impress someone (or not) is pretty funny. De Beers controlled the supply and demand of diamonds in order to make them seem more rare and, therefore, more valuable.

Their "value" is all made up!

I am aware of this history. It has no bearing on the fact that it is an important symbol and milestone (ugh, pun) for many adult women, or the fact that I want one. I love the idea of a ring that I wear and admire for the rest of my life that reminds me of the sparkling promise of these days, that my kids associate with me, and that will outlast us both.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In what kind of job are you guaranteed to go from $75k to $500k in a few years? I thought professional athlete, but there aren’t guarantees like that, or something else in professional sports. Please tell us OP.

I’m also curious. I doubt OP will tell us so does anyone have any ideas?? Of course people can grow their salaries quickly but in what case would this be a guaranteed thing written in a contract? I was thinking sports, also, but I don’t know anything about how sports contracts are written. And, with any job, isn’t there always some way for the employer to release the person from their contract?

There are some entrepreneurs whose lives work out this way, when they sell a company and make good on the deliverables they can have a huge jump in income/assests.

That is the exception and not the rule. For every entrepreneur who does well, there are hundreds who never go above average or even lose everything. Very, very dumb to bet your future on millions of dollars that may not happen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In what kind of job are you guaranteed to go from $75k to $500k in a few years? I thought professional athlete, but there aren’t guarantees like that, or something else in professional sports. Please tell us OP.

I’m also curious. I doubt OP will tell us so does anyone have any ideas?? Of course people can grow their salaries quickly but in what case would this be a guaranteed thing written in a contract? I was thinking sports, also, but I don’t know anything about how sports contracts are written. And, with any job, isn’t there always some way for the employer to release the person from their contract?

There are some entrepreneurs whose lives work out this way, when they sell a company and make good on the deliverables they can have a huge jump in income/assests.

pp. oh ok that makes sense. Obviously, I don’t know much about this kind of thing. Even so, it would make me nervous to spend income I don’t yet have on frivolous stuff.

Anonymous wrote:If you have articulated to your future husband why this is important and he is dismissive, then i would see that as a big red flag. And I say that as a woman who didn’t want a ring, my future husband insisted and so it sits in a drawer. It isn’t about the ring. It is about whether he takes into account what is important to you.

I’m also assuming you are not insisting on something insanely out of his budget.

This absolutely! I haven’t read the whole thread though and you don’t mention the reason in the op, but if it’s a simple battle of wills, you want a ring and he doesn’t want to buy one, and neither seems to want to compromise (a cheaper ring, a different stone, etc), then yes, might as well just part ways here and save both of you lots of pain down the road. Otherwise, be ready to just have your wants dismissed, which is not a nice way to live as there are so many major and small decisions where compromise is needed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In what kind of job are you guaranteed to go from $75k to $500k in a few years? I thought professional athlete, but there aren’t guarantees like that, or something else in professional sports. Please tell us OP.

I’m also curious. I doubt OP will tell us so does anyone have any ideas?? Of course people can grow their salaries quickly but in what case would this be a guaranteed thing written in a contract? I was thinking sports, also, but I don’t know anything about how sports contracts are written. And, with any job, isn’t there always some way for the employer to release the person from their contract?

There are some entrepreneurs whose lives work out this way, when they sell a company and make good on the deliverables they can have a huge jump in income/assests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s about wanting to make your partner happy even if you have to sacrifice a little

Making your partner happy by throwing money away on something stupid so she can impress her girlfriends. Maybe she needs to grow up a little and stop being such a useless person in search of a walking ATM. If she wants a useless trinket, she should save up for it.

more sock puppeting from OP.

just don't get married. you clearly don't want to.

Uh, I'm OP, this wasn't me, and you have issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In what kind of job are you guaranteed to go from $75k to $500k in a few years? I thought professional athlete, but there aren’t guarantees like that, or something else in professional sports. Please tell us OP.

I’m also curious. I doubt OP will tell us so does anyone have any ideas?? Of course people can grow their salaries quickly but in what case would this be a guaranteed thing written in a contract? I was thinking sports, also, but I don’t know anything about how sports contracts are written. And, with any job, isn’t there always some way for the employer to release the person from their contract?

OP seems young and irresponsible with money. If her fiancé is, too, athlete checks out.

Anonymous wrote:In what kind of job are you guaranteed to go from $75k to $500k in a few years? I thought professional athlete, but there aren’t guarantees like that, or something else in professional sports. Please tell us OP.

I’m also curious. I doubt OP will tell us so does anyone have any ideas?? Of course people can grow their salaries quickly but in what case would this be a guaranteed thing written in a contract? I was thinking sports, also, but I don’t know anything about how sports contracts are written. And, with any job, isn’t there always some way for the employer to release the person from their contract?

Anonymous wrote:

It’s about wanting to make your partner happy even if you have to sacrifice a little

Making your partner happy by throwing money away on something stupid so she can impress her girlfriends. Maybe she needs to grow up a little and stop being such a useless person in search of a walking ATM. If she wants a useless trinket, she should save up for it.

more sock puppeting from OP.

just don't get married. you clearly don't want to.

In what kind of job are you guaranteed to go from $75k to $500k in a few years? I thought professional athlete, but there aren’t guarantees like that, or something else in professional sports. Please tell us OP.

Anonymous wrote:

It’s about wanting to make your partner happy even if you have to sacrifice a little

Making your partner happy by throwing money away on something stupid so she can impress her girlfriends. Maybe she needs to grow up a little and stop being such a useless person in search of a walking ATM. If she wants a useless trinket, she should save up for it.

This is not about the ring. Read all the pages. This is about bigger issues of not being willing to compromise, not taking what's important to your partner into consideration, and her having little worth to him due to the choices and comments he has made. The ring is just an example.

You are the one who needs to grow up a little.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And what is she buying him)

There is not tradition in our culture of buying men engagement rings.

This is not a business negotiation.

Your transactional approach to how you express your eternal love to someone is pretty scarey.

NP. Women demanding a ring to barter her fertility and youth in marriage (quoting OP here) is traditional and sentimental but men getting a gift from a woman upon engagement is transactional?

Make it make sense.

The bean counting of “she gets a ring, what do I get??” will doom a marriage. You can’t go into it with that attitude. That’s what leads to chore charts and sexlessness and resentment.

And FWIW, I know many women who got their H’s engagement gifts, myself included. It may not be as expensive or flashy as a ring, but it was something with sentimental value that they treasured.

You still haven't explained why it's only bean-counting in one direction but not in the other. Why is her "you want my fertility, where is my ring?" not bean counting? She's literally saying his love is not enough (or is not real love) without getting her an expensive ring to make it worth her while. That's transactional by definition.

PP here. I don’t know what OP said specifically, but I do think it’s very wrong to view marriage as a transaction for your fertility. I never felt that way, neither have any women I know. Fertility certainly isn’t guaranteed, and I don’t want to be viewed as an incubator being purchased. For me, it was about building a life and a legacy with someone I loved. So we do nice things for each other without tracking who did more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And what is she buying him)

There is not tradition in our culture of buying men engagement rings.

This is not a business negotiation.

Your transactional approach to how you express your eternal love to someone is pretty scarey.

NP. Women demanding a ring to barter her fertility and youth in marriage (quoting OP here) is traditional and sentimental but men getting a gift from a woman upon engagement is transactional?

Make it make sense.

The bean counting of “she gets a ring, what do I get??” will doom a marriage. You can’t go into it with that attitude. That’s what leads to chore charts and sexlessness and resentment.

And FWIW, I know many women who got their H’s engagement gifts, myself included. It may not be as expensive or flashy as a ring, but it was something with sentimental value that they treasured.

You still haven't explained why it's only bean-counting in one direction but not in the other. Why is her "you want my fertility, where is my ring?" not bean counting? She's literally saying his love is not enough (or is not real love) without getting her an expensive ring to make it worth her while. That's transactional by definition.

You are missing the point. What men and women give early on in marriage is not commensurate. The woman gives something that can never be restored, regained or recaptured if the marriage does not last. The man can move on pretty easily and start again. What OP was saying is that she is staking much more than a trivial ring is worth.

Wait, what? Are you assuming OP is a virgin or something?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And what is she buying him)

There is not tradition in our culture of buying men engagement rings.

This is not a business negotiation.

Your transactional approach to how you express your eternal love to someone is pretty scarey.

+1. Some people enjoy traditions and some people don’t. People should find and marry people with similar values. My DH would have felt embarrassed proposing without a ring because he is a traditional guy and proposing with a ring I love was a point of pride for him. For both of us, it symbolized that we were moving onto a new phase in our relationship that we were both excited about.

I think anyone trying to get “paid back” for purchasing an engagement ring is missing the point of a marriage. You’ve got a long road ahead of you if you don’t understand the point of giving a gift to your spouse.

It sounds like Op and her fiance aren't compatible.

That's basically what this is telling you OP. Why do you want to marry the guy if you are so different?