Anonymous wrote:

Of course grades and test scores come first, but the arbitrariness comes into play, because elite schools could fill themselves several times over with perfect test scores and grades. Therefore the spin the college counselor puts on it can influence the process. Naturally one wants to believe that the soft skills should be emphasized, but these are difficult to evaluate in an application.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, what can you do? Encourage the kid to write multiple drafts of his or her own thoughtful essays, provide input, or ask a friend, relative or neighbor to do the same. Hire an editor you can afford on-line.

Do what you can. Nothing to be done about the mediocre kids with the pricey help getting a leg up.

My point was only to highlight the often arbitrary nature of selecting applicants. The comment that the coherence and presentation of the application sometimes trumps grades gives a huge advantage to kids with a private college counselor. Not the fault of the admissions officer - this is simply standard practice.

This is more what pricey college counselors want you to believe than is actually reflective of the reality, at least for the top schools.

A "coherent" application does not trump strong testing, GPA, and outside activities. It doesn't even come close.

Anonymous wrote:How is putting together an essay or application package a better indicator than grades over time of whether someone is intelligent and hard working?

All I got from that post is that public universities are better than private ones given the way they select students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, what can you do? Encourage the kid to write multiple drafts of his or her own thoughtful essays, provide input, or ask a friend, relative or neighbor to do the same. Hire an editor you can afford on-line.

Do what you can. Nothing to be done about the mediocre kids with the pricey help getting a leg up.

My point was only to highlight the often arbitrary nature of selecting applicants. The comment that the coherence and presentation of the application sometimes trumps grades gives a huge advantage to kids with a private college counselor. Not the fault of the admissions officer - this is simply standard practice.

Anonymous wrote:Well, what can you do? Encourage the kid to write multiple drafts of his or her own thoughtful essays, provide input, or ask a friend, relative or neighbor to do the same. Hire an editor you can afford on-line.

Do what you can. Nothing to be done about the mediocre kids with the pricey help getting a leg up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in college admissions. I've observed is that private LACs and universities, even in the top tier, tend to emphasize HS grades less than applicants, their parents, teachers and guidance counselors tend to think, and not just freshman year grades. This is true as long as the applicant demonstrates strong intellectual promise and preparation for college work in other ways, particularly via standardized test scores and extra curriculars. Public universities invariably emphasize grades in admissions to a greater degree than privates and top universities abroad.

I've seen applicants who weren't legacies or recruited athletes who didn't rank in the top dozen or two in their high school classes crack Ivies. These kids tended to score sky high on SATs and/or ACTs, APs, IB Diploma exams and brought serious an abiding interests to the table. As a general rule, they also put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application. Admission people know that an applicant can be better than a curriculum and teaching at a particular school, particularly a large public school, and that some kids go through phases in high school where they can't concentrate well for whatever reasons.

No need to sweat every last high school grade, even for Harvard, Stanford, MIT if a kid is bright, driven and a hard worker.

Thank you for the insights! I know it is not you but the system, but "put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application" is simply how much private counselling their parents can afford.

As someone who was admitted to several of the most selective undergraduate and graduate schools that this country offers, without paid or unpaid help, I disagree. Anyone can use free resources to learn about what universities value. And, anyone can write a great, thoughtful and unique essay if they have great or unique thoughts to express.

Yes, but there are a ton of mediocre kids whose parents hire college counselors to put together that coherent and thoughtful packet for them, including writing the essays for all intents and purposes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in college admissions. I've observed is that private LACs and universities, even in the top tier, tend to emphasize HS grades less than applicants, their parents, teachers and guidance counselors tend to think, and not just freshman year grades. This is true as long as the applicant demonstrates strong intellectual promise and preparation for college work in other ways, particularly via standardized test scores and extra curriculars. Public universities invariably emphasize grades in admissions to a greater degree than privates and top universities abroad.

I've seen applicants who weren't legacies or recruited athletes who didn't rank in the top dozen or two in their high school classes crack Ivies. These kids tended to score sky high on SATs and/or ACTs, APs, IB Diploma exams and brought serious an abiding interests to the table. As a general rule, they also put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application. Admission people know that an applicant can be better than a curriculum and teaching at a particular school, particularly a large public school, and that some kids go through phases in high school where they can't concentrate well for whatever reasons.

No need to sweat every last high school grade, even for Harvard, Stanford, MIT if a kid is bright, driven and a hard worker.

Thank you for the insights! I know it is not you but the system, but "put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application" is simply how much private counselling their parents can afford.

As someone who was admitted to several of the most selective undergraduate and graduate schools that this country offers, without paid or unpaid help, I disagree. Anyone can use free resources to learn about what universities value. And, anyone can write a great, thoughtful and unique essay if they have great or unique thoughts to express.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in college admissions. I've observed is that private LACs and universities, even in the top tier, tend to emphasize HS grades less than applicants, their parents, teachers and guidance counselors tend to think, and not just freshman year grades. This is true as long as the applicant demonstrates strong intellectual promise and preparation for college work in other ways, particularly via standardized test scores and extra curriculars. Public universities invariably emphasize grades in admissions to a greater degree than privates and top universities abroad.

I've seen applicants who weren't legacies or recruited athletes who didn't rank in the top dozen or two in their high school classes crack Ivies. These kids tended to score sky high on SATs and/or ACTs, APs, IB Diploma exams and brought serious an abiding interests to the table. As a general rule, they also put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application. Admission people know that an applicant can be better than a curriculum and teaching at a particular school, particularly a large public school, and that some kids go through phases in high school where they can't concentrate well for whatever reasons.

No need to sweat every last high school grade, even for Harvard, Stanford, MIT if a kid is bright, driven and a hard worker.

Thank you for the insights! I know it is not you but the system, but "put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application" is simply how much private counselling their parents can afford.

Anonymous wrote:I work in college admissions. I've observed is that private LACs and universities, even in the top tier, tend to emphasize HS grades less than applicants, their parents, teachers and guidance counselors tend to think, and not just freshman year grades. This is true as long as the applicant demonstrates strong intellectual promise and preparation for college work in other ways, particularly via standardized test scores and extra curriculars. Public universities invariably emphasize grades in admissions to a greater degree than privates and top universities abroad.

I've seen applicants who weren't legacies or recruited athletes who didn't rank in the top dozen or two in their high school classes crack Ivies. These kids tended to score sky high on SATs and/or ACTs, APs, IB Diploma exams and brought serious an abiding interests to the table. As a general rule, they also put a lot of work into pulling together a particularly coherent and thoughtful application. Admission people know that an applicant can be better than a curriculum and teaching at a particular school, particularly a large public school, and that some kids go through phases in high school where they can't concentrate well for whatever reasons.

No need to sweat every last high school grade, even for Harvard, Stanford, MIT if a kid is bright, driven and a hard worker.