Actual data point here. DC is one of the NMSFs at the school that had a lot of them this year. Child absolutely did NOT prep at all. Took the PSAT at school on the day it was given. Kid enjoys taking these tests somewhat. It is really wrong to accuse these kids of some nefarious action or privilege tailwind. Some kids are natural athletes and artists. My kid is, frankly, very smart — does not necessarily make him a good person (although I think he is). We drill into him that being smart isn’t necessarily a virtue but how you develop and use that endowment that is. I know many of the kids on that list and they are all very smart. If I observe a truly gifted athlete, the last thing I think of are ways to somehow diminish or delegitimize that talent; in fact, I am inspired by it. The school that had a lot of NMSFs this year does a good job of finding a lot of the really smart kids in the DMV. The list is reflective of that, I believe.

I am not saying that anyone can be prepped to top 2% score. That’s statistically impossible. I’m just willing to bet that a big chunk of NMSF’s are in that category because of prep, whether specifically for the PSAT or through years of other test-taking “enrichment”. Kumon or AOPS etc.

It would be a small to non-existent minority who go to school, do their homework, and do no other outside prep whatsoever who end up NMSFs.

I'm not PP and think it's tough to prep one's way either to commended scholar or NMSF level, but it's statistically indisputable that prepping to the latter is (relatively speaking) way more difficult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Right, because you can prep from 1100 to 1250 but not from 1350-1500?

You don't see a difference in the relative difficulty of improving from 59th to 81st percentile vs. 90th to 98th percentile?

Of course incremental improvement is more difficult the higher you go, but I still don’t see how that supports your implied claim that NMSF are just inherently brilliant while mere mortal commended scholars are prepped.

Anonymous wrote:Right, because you can prep from 1100 to 1250 but not from 1350-1500?

You don't see a difference in the relative difficulty of improving from 59th to 81st percentile vs. 90th to 98th percentile?

I will bite - I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

The NMSF I know personally are very smart kids. I have no idea if they cracked a book or not in prep for the PSAT. Given that you can only miss 4 or so questions in our area, my guess is some of them did. Many of them study for fun. But none of the NMSF kids I know are complete outliers: kids who would have gotten a low score but studied forever and got NMSF. Maybe they would have simply been commended (which is a 1420 SAT equivalent I believe) but all of them are smart kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC goes to a Big3 and the school specifically says the PSAT is for practice and NOT to prepare. I wonder if many of the kids that are NMSF are specifically studying or tutoring for it over the summer? It is really not emphasized at all at the school.

No. The students who do extremely well on PSAT are not doing so because they prepped for it. The kids who do well enough to eventually be NMSF or Finalist find the PSAT exceedingly easy. Kinda like if you were asked to take an 8th grade English and math test when you were in college

The kids who are prepped by their parents are being prepped to help them go from a score of 1000-1100 to something slightly more admissible to a solid SLAC ( 1250 /1300 ) NOT to even try for NMSF

Right, because you can prep from 1100 to 1250 but not from 1350-1500? That makes no sense. NMSFs are not some separate species. The PSAT is a knowledge test. Of course prepping helps. One of my closest close friends was a NMSF from PA and it landed him a fat scholarship to a top 20 university. He definitely prepped for it.

Anonymous wrote:My DC goes to a Big3 and the school specifically says the PSAT is for practice and NOT to prepare. I wonder if many of the kids that are NMSF are specifically studying or tutoring for it over the summer? It is really not emphasized at all at the school.

No. The students who do extremely well on PSAT are not doing so because they prepped for it. The kids who do well enough to eventually be NMSF or Finalist find the PSAT exceedingly easy. Kinda like if you were asked to take an 8th grade English and math test when you were in college

The kids who are prepped by their parents are being prepped to help them go from a score of 1000-1100 to something slightly more admissible to a solid SLAC ( 1250 /1300 ) NOT to even try for NMSF

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our public school will not inform the parents about PSAT and NMS. Usually, it is some parent who will tell parents to pay attention in our listserv. Our school has the capacity to have 80% NMS commended students. Only around 10% even apply.

You don't apply. You just take the PSAT junior year when the school offers it. It's automatic.

Correct. So the school did not have PSAT in Junior year and did not inform about the alternate route to NMS using SAT scores. So, the kids did not apply. In a graduating class of 250, only 37 are NMS semifinalist, when the truth is that a 1540 is the normal median SAT score in the school. Most of the kids and parents could not be bothered. If it was a private school, every single advantage would have been milked. That is what is wrong with public schools.

Agree it is a problem with public schools to not really care about or promote these things. But the assumption about private schools is not correct. Maybe in a handful of schools, but not most. It is still up to the kids to self advocate, know what they need to do, and actually do it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happened to St. Albans? It used to be close.

https://patch.com/district-columbia/washingtondc/2022-national-merit-semifinalists-named-washington-dc

They already have a bunch of Ivy commits and their college admissions continues to be amazing - not a bad school on the list (not just top 10 but all students landed in great schools) so I don’t think STA is too worried about any of this! Congrats to Sidwell which is also a great school!

They already have athletes recruited to top schools for their athletic ability. … That’s nkt what we’re talking about here.

My nephew’s giant public high school in a Midwestern suburb also has multiple jocks committed to Princeton, Yale, Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt , Northwestern, Penn. For sports. For chasing around a ball really, really well. Except Stanford guy, who’s a water sport person so there’s no ball involved.

Anonymous wrote:Every year before this year the two schools were neck in neck. This year was weird given Covid. Kids could submit SAT scores. Public and charter school kids in the District were not even given the PSAT.

This was also the immediate year after all IVy and most of the best schools in country publicly stated they were dropping SAT/ ACT scores from the submission requirements in the application process or being test optional

major fall out

Especially in fall 2020 when no one was vaccinated and taking the PSAT ( 4 hours in a mask and for what ) just didn’t seem worth the return

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our public school will not inform the parents about PSAT and NMS. Usually, it is some parent who will tell parents to pay attention in our listserv. Our school has the capacity to have 80% NMS commended students. Only around 10% even apply.

You don't apply. You just take the PSAT junior year when the school offers it. It's automatic.

Correct. So the school did not have PSAT in Junior year and did not inform about the alternate route to NMS using SAT scores. So, the kids did not apply. In a graduating class of 250, only 37 are NMS semifinalist, when the truth is that a 1540 is the normal median SAT score in the school. Most of the kids and parents could not be bothered. If it was a private school, every single advantage would have been milked. That is what is wrong with public schools.

So the school doesn't involve itself in any way, but you somehow know that 1540 is the "normal median score." Right.

Anonymous wrote:PP is a loon.

The type that believes:

a) their child is entitled to the best of everything due to their innate superior merit; and

b) the reason they don't have wha they want is because someone else must have cheated.

PP is a loon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC goes to a Big3 and the school specifically says the PSAT is for practice and NOT to prepare. I wonder if many of the kids that are NMSF are specifically studying or tutoring for it over the summer? It is really not emphasized at all at the school.

None of the schools emphasize it, and they all say to treat it as a practice test; that doesn't stop individuals from preparing for it.

Maybe the schools try to deemphasize it because it’s not strongly related to acceptances at elite colleges.

For NMS, it is the 3 N's that matter -
Parents Net Worth
Parents' Network and
Parents' willingness to indulge in Nefarious activities.

Merit is for losers.